Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:16 PM, Good Guys said: If Cole and Strasburg are off the table then Wheeler should be priority #1 this offseason. I would like to see 2 starters signed this offseason and wouldn't mind bringing back Quintana to pair with Wheeler if he's available. Expand JMO - we shouldn't just give up on Lopez yet by bringing in another starter likely to throw a large number of innings. We should be looking at a Nova or a Teheran - a guy who we are comfortable moving to the bullpen several times during the year as people come up from the minors, but who can serve as a starter for weeks to months if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:07 PM, Jack Parkman said: We're all off on our player valuations. Whatever you think it is, add 20-30%. Wheeler's getting in the $115-130 range, Odorizzi is getting $85-100, Strasburg in the $160-175 range and Cole in the $250+ range. Mo money, Mo years. Expand I don't think Odorizzi touches anywhere near 100 million. Odorizzi will sign for 4 years 60 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 2:23 PM, TheFutureIsNear said: Never said we shouldn’t sign wheeler...was more a comment toward the article you posted suggesting that Wheeler could break out into the next Cole. Just pointing out that Wheeler is already a few months older and Cole really showed his elite ability back in 2015. Wheeler has been very good, but hasn’t shown that truly elite ability yet and is already 29, doubt it’s happening but crazier things have happened. But I agree that he’s a really good #3 that you hope gives you #2 production more often than not and that he’d be a great signing for us. Expand I think the premise is that Wheeler has been hurt a lot and may now find look much better with consistent playing time. He has the talent to look elite, he just can't stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 2:40 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 150-160? Zero chance. 115-130 will be his zone. Corbin got 125 and he had thrown more innings, was coming off a better year and had a lesser injury history. Expand I think Wheeler gets 6 years and 150, so about 22 million per. I think some team will get desperate and increase his true value. Wheeler is the best pitcher on the market for those who are out on the top two. If the Sox offer Wheeler 130 million, I can see the Twins trumping that as they are desperate for pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 2:15 PM, SonofaRoache said: Wheeler is gonna top out at 150 or 160. There will be a bidding war for his services. Expand HARD PASS if Wheeler gets into $150-160M range. That is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:26 PM, ChiSox59 said: HARD PASS if Wheeler gets into $150-160M range. That is insane. Expand I'd be surprised if it got that high, but pitching prices are in fact "Insane" on any scale we're calibrated for, so I wouldn't be stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) On 10/30/2019 at 3:19 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I don't think Odorizzi touches anywhere near 100 million. Odorizzi will sign for 4 years 60 million. Expand If Jeff Samardzija got $90M, so will Odorizzi. Samardzija had an ERA of 5 with the Sox and still got that one year removed from his career year. Edited October 30, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:18 PM, Balta1701 said: JMO - we shouldn't just give up on Lopez yet by bringing in another starter likely to throw a large number of innings. We should be looking at a Nova or a Teheran - a guy who we are comfortable moving to the bullpen several times during the year as people come up from the minors, but who can serve as a starter for weeks to months if needed. Expand I disagree. I think the Sox need to go after the two best starters they can get their hands on. Lopez will be in the starting rotation to start the season and Kopech, or later in the season Rodon can be brought up if there's an injury or someone is struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:26 PM, ChiSox59 said: HARD PASS if Wheeler gets into $150-160M range. That is insane. Expand 20 million per is the starting point now for good but not great pitchers. Add in desperation and bidding wars and the price gets ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:29 PM, Balta1701 said: I'd be surprised if it got that high, but pitching prices are in fact "Insane" on any scale we're calibrated for, so I wouldn't be stunned. Expand Yah, I think 5/$105 or so is about the max he'll get. Could see something less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:33 PM, SonofaRoache said: 20 million per is the starting point now for good but not great pitchers. Add in desperation and bidding wars and the price gets ridiculous. Expand Zack Wheeler is not getting a 7 or 8 year deal. $20M per would be $80M on a 4 year deal and $100M on a 5 year deal. Big difference between that and $140-$160M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:31 PM, Jack Parkman said: If Jeff Samardzija got $90M, so will Odorizzi. Samardzija had an ERA of 5 with the Sox and still got that one year removed from his career year. Expand You cant judge the market vs bad contracts. Odorizzi isn't coming off a better situation than Keuchel was and Keuchel got nothing. It's not hard to imagine that Odorizzi will sit out there for a long time as he isn't a main target of anyone - more of a fall back plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:32 PM, Good Guys said: I disagree. I think the Sox need to go after the two best starters they can get their hands on. Lopez will be in the starting rotation to start the season and Kopech, or later in the season Rodon can be brought up if there's an injury or someone is struggling. Expand I can see the White Sox keeping Kopech down to steal the extra year of control/burning an option, but I would be somewhat angry if they were expecting to hide him for most of the year. Kopech and Cease are the key guys in making this a strong rotation, even if it takes Kopech a while to find his control we need him up and working on facing big league hitters for a good part of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, Balta1701 said: I can see the White Sox keeping Kopech down to steal the extra year of control/burning an option, but I would be somewhat angry if they were expecting to hide him for most of the year. Kopech and Cease are the key guys in making this a strong rotation, even if it takes Kopech a while to find his control we need him up and working on facing big league hitters for a good part of this year. Expand Don't think Kopechs is a guy's who's service time you can now fuck with after you already said he was up to stay prior to his injury. If he's performing he'll be up imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You cant judge the market vs bad contracts. Expand That's literally what you have to do. The majority of contracts signed every year for mid-level players turn out to look pretty bad within 1 year. An average contract given out to a FA is a "mediocre at best" contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You cant judge the market vs bad contracts. Odorizzi isn't coming off a better situation than Keuchel was and Keuchel got nothing. It's not hard to imagine that Odorizzi will sit out there for a long time as he isn't a main target of anyone - more of a fall back plan. Expand If he gets a QO then he's in the exact position that Keuchel was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:36 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Don't think Kopechs is a guy's who's service time you can now fuck with after you already said he was up to stay prior to his injury. If he's performing he'll be up imo. Expand If you're willing to burn a minor league option it's pretty easy with him, you can say you're trying to control his innings load by keeping him in the minors for 2 months and any grievance is easily won because that's totally plausible, especially if you skip a few starts with him or do 6-7 days of rest a few times. I'm not sure I'd do this if he has a strong spring, but they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:26 PM, ChiSox59 said: HARD PASS if Wheeler gets into $150-160M range. That Expand Would you go with someone like Odorizzi if prices get that high for Wheeler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:36 PM, Balta1701 said: That's literally what you have to do. The majority of contracts signed every year for mid-level players turn out to look pretty bad within 1 year. An average contract given out to a FA is a "mediocre at best" contract. Expand Well no. No one is walking in and saying "my client is better than Samardzija who signed for this." Markets are different year to year. Abreu can't say, well I'm better than Pujols who signed for this 6 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:37 PM, Jack Parkman said: If he gets a QO then he's in the exact position that Keuchel was last year. Expand Yeah, fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:39 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Abreu can't say, well I'm better than Pujols who signed for this 6 years ago. Expand Well no he can't but that's because Pujols was way way way better, like so far better that the comparison is silly. If Abreu was anything close to that caliber of hitter then that's exactly what they would say. That's exactly one of the things Scott Boras does in his player packets - includes comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:39 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yeah, fucked. Expand If I were Odorizzi and the Twins offered me a QO I'd take it and bet on myself. If he doesn't take the QO he's out of a job until June. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I thought I remember Hahn saying that it was no guarantee that Kopech would be on the 25 man roster to start the 2020 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:36 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Don't think Kopechs is a guy's who's service time you can now fuck with after you already said he was up to stay prior to his injury. If he's performing he'll be up imo. Expand This has been discussed a lot here, but Kopech isn't going to be ready to throw 170+ major league innings. Hahn has already said he's starting in the minors. They'll move him slowly there. Maybe if he's dicing AAA by mid-May and is stretched out, they'll bring him up, but I think they'll kid glove him until June, and bring him up a couple weeks later. I'd much rather have Michael Kopech pitching for the White Sox from mid-June-September than April-July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 3:43 PM, Good Guys said: I thought I remember Hahn saying that it was no guarantee that Kopech would be on the 25 man roster to start the 2020 season. Expand 26-man, and you’re right, he won’t be up until May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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