ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Good Guys said: Would you go with someone like Odorizzi if prices get that high for Wheeler? I think Odorizzi is a god awful fit for the Sox, so no, he wouldn't be my first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: This has been discussed a lot here, but Kopech isn't going to be ready to throw 170+ major league innings. Hahn has already said he's starting in the minors. They'll move him slowly there. Maybe if he's dicing AAA by mid-May and is stretched out, they'll bring him up, but I think they'll kid glove him until June, and bring him up a couple weeks later. I'd much rather have Michael Kopech pitching for the White Sox from mid-June-September than April-July. You can monitor innings at the big league level - it's not "easier to do" in the minors. That's a BS excuse. He may start in the minors because his command isn't all the way back; that's a valid excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: If he gets a QO then he's in the exact position that Keuchel was last year. Odorizzi is 100% getting the QO. I pretty much have that confirmed, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Good Guys said: I thought I remember Hahn saying that it was no guarantee that Kopech would be on the 25 man roster to start the 2020 season. It shouldnt be, if he struggles in ST then he should start in the minors. Whether they'll use that to offset the lost service time I don't know, but he should have to prove he's ready to go before he's up. But having a guy like Teheran who can throw 50 innings as a starter while waiting on Kopech for a few million is different from having a guy like Quintana or Hamels who can throw 175 innings and who probably will stay in the rotation the whole year. If you bring in one of those guys, and you sign Wheeler, when Kopech is ready to go - who's the odd man out? Do you give up on Lopez if he has an iffy start again? Do you give up on Cease? Are you counting on an injury that early? What happens when Rodon is back and you now are 7 deep, are Rodon and Lopez both bullpen pitchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I could easily see Wheeler getting 150 million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You can monitor innings at the big league level - it's not "easier to do" in the minors. That's a BS excuse. He may start in the minors because his command isn't all the way back; that's a valid excuse. Ok. I disagree. Hahn has pretty much already confirmed Kopech will be in AAA for awhile, so argue all you want, but that is what is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It shouldnt be, if he struggles in ST then he should start in the minors. Whether they'll use that to offset the lost service time I don't know, but he should have to prove he's ready to go before he's up. But having a guy like Teheran who can throw 50 innings as a starter while waiting on Kopech for a few million is different from having a guy like Quintana or Hamels who can throw 175 innings and who probably will stay in the rotation the whole year. If you bring in one of those guys, and you sign Wheeler, when Kopech is ready to go - who's the odd man out? Do you give up on Lopez if he has an iffy start again? Do you give up on Cease? Are you counting on an injury that early? What happens when Rodon is back and you now are 7 deep, are Rodon and Lopez both bullpen pitchers? Teheran is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: It shouldnt be, if he struggles in ST then he should start in the minors. Whether they'll use that to offset the lost service time I don't know, but he should have to prove he's ready to go before he's up. But having a guy like Teheran who can throw 50 innings as a starter while waiting on Kopech for a few million is different from having a guy like Quintana or Hamels who can throw 175 innings and who probably will stay in the rotation the whole year. If you bring in one of those guys, and you sign Wheeler, when Kopech is ready to go - who's the odd man out? Do you give up on Lopez if he has an iffy start again? Do you give up on Cease? Are you counting on an injury that early? What happens when Rodon is back and you now are 7 deep, are Rodon and Lopez both bullpen pitchers? I think too much quality starting pitching is a good problem to have. No team ever has the same starting 5 all season long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It shouldnt be, if he struggles in ST then he should start in the minors. Whether they'll use that to offset the lost service time I don't know, but he should have to prove he's ready to go before he's up. But having a guy like Teheran who can throw 50 innings as a starter while waiting on Kopech for a few million is different from having a guy like Quintana or Hamels who can throw 175 innings and who probably will stay in the rotation the whole year. If you bring in one of those guys, and you sign Wheeler, when Kopech is ready to go - who's the odd man out? Do you give up on Lopez if he has an iffy start again? Do you give up on Cease? Are you counting on an injury that early? What happens when Rodon is back and you now are 7 deep, are Rodon and Lopez both bullpen pitchers? Sounds like a great problem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Ok. I disagree. Hahn has pretty much already confirmed Kopech will be in AAA for awhile, so argue all you want, but that is what is going to happen. I didn't decipher his comments the same way you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Sounds like a great problem to have. 2 minutes ago, Good Guys said: I think too much quality starting pitching is a good problem to have. No team ever has the same starting 5 all season long. Ok, but then remember that you now have to save $10-$15 million somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ok, but then remember that you now have to save $10-$15 million somewhere else. I'm okay with that. $10-$15 million more than Nova's $8.5 million last season would get the White Sox a pretty darn good pitcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Ok. I disagree. Hahn has pretty much already confirmed Kopech will be in AAA for awhile, so argue all you want, but that is what is going to happen. Yeah, I that's how I interpreted it too. He's going to be in Charlotte until at least 6/1. 17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Odorizzi is 100% getting the QO. I pretty much have that confirmed, FWIW. Odorizzi would be an idiot to not take it. We should count on him being a Twin next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Yeah, I that's how I interpreted it too. He's going to be in Charlotte until at least 6/1. Odorizzi would be an idiot to not take it. We should count on him being a Twin next year. So, they send him down and he absolutely dominates... they're going to hold him down through June when they had already determined he was ready prior to his injury? Maybe, but I find it unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Good Guys said: I'm okay with that. $10-$15 million more than Nova's $8.5 million last season would get the White Sox a pretty darn good pitcher. True, but now you have Avi Garcia as your starting RF because you had to save some money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So, they send him down and he absolutely dominates... they're going to hold him down through June when they had already determined he was ready prior to his injury? Maybe, but I find it unlikely. I don't think they're going to let him pitch enough innings to "dominate" until they're prepared to bring him up. Kopech maybe has 150 innings in his arm next season before he's shut down. IMO, they're going to take it very slow with him to start in AAA, take the kid gloves off in June, and he'll be up shortly thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: True, but now you have Avi Garcia as your starting RF because you had to save some money elsewhere. If that is the compromise and the White Sox get Cole and Wheeler to pair with Giolito then I'm okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So, they send him down and he absolutely dominates... they're going to hold him down through June when they had already determined he was ready prior to his injury? Maybe, but I find it unlikely. They can use it as an innings excuse. He goes down there and starts once a week until May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Good Guys said: If that is the compromise and the White Sox get Cole and Wheeler to pair with Giolito then I'm okay with that. LOL Cole and Wheeler? Naw, I was talking about going with Wheeler and Hamels. Cole and Wheeler is $50-$60 million between them. That's Avi Garcia in RF and Mitch Moreland at DH to find enough money to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: LOL Cole and Wheeler? Naw, I was talking about going with Wheeler and Hamels. Cole and Wheeler is $50-$60 million between them. That's Avi Garcia in RF and Mitch Moreland at DH to find enough money to do it. I wouldn't be unhappy if that's what comes from this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Good Guys said: I wouldn't be unhappy if that's what comes from this offseason. I think that's a recipe for another bottom 5 in the league offensive season with an average at best bullpen and missing the playoffs by a long ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 There's not a lot of good right field options this offseason and I would be hesitant to make a long term investment at DH with Abreu likely being a lifelong Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think that's a recipe for another bottom 5 in the league offensive season with an average at best bullpen and missing the playoffs by a long ways. You've probably stated it somewhere in here over the past month, but I am curious, what exactly would your offseason plan be? Seems you always say if we invest in SP, the lineup will suck. If we invest in the lineup, the pitching will suck. Maybe you just think the Sox will suck regardless, but what would you do this offseason if you were in charge to put the Sox in the best position to contend in 2020, but also for multiple years thereafter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 A lot has changed in baseball over the last 20 years but in my mind starting pitching is still the key to success. Especially in the postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: You've probably stated it somewhere in here over the past month, but I am curious, what exactly would your offseason plan be? Seems you always say if we invest in SP, the lineup will suck. If we invest in the lineup, the pitching will suck. Maybe you just think the Sox will suck regardless, but what would you do this offseason if you were in charge to put the Sox in the best position to contend in 2020, but also for multiple years thereafter. Ideal? Abreu, Cole, Calhoun/Reddick (team chips in a little bit to save payroll), Moustakas (2 year deal), Will Smith (2 year deal), and Nova/Teheran/I'm open to other ideas. Comes in somewhere around $140 million give or take, strengthens all parts of the team, leaves me the ability to clear out 1b/DH next offseason if Vaughn is ready, gives me the best FA on the market who will also be movable almost every year if he stays healthy, and importantly I still have money to spend in 2021 to fill the gaps of whatever goes wrong this year. Note the tradeoffs I made. I went with the top starter and nearly top bullpen pitcher, but because of that I went with a cheaper DH and RF option and a weak 6th starter/bullpen guy. Also, basically anything good becomes impossible to do if we're paying Abreu and limited to a $120 million payroll, Wheeler included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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