ChiSox59 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ideal? Abreu, Cole, Calhoun/Reddick (team chips in a little bit to save payroll), Moustakas (2 year deal), Will Smith (2 year deal), and Nova/Teheran/I'm open to other ideas. Comes in somewhere around $140 million give or take, strengthens all parts of the team, leaves me the ability to clear out 1b/DH next offseason if Vaughn is ready, gives me the best FA on the market who will also be movable almost every year if he stays healthy, and importantly I still have money to spend in 2021 to fill the gaps of whatever goes wrong this year. Note the tradeoffs I made. I went with the top starter and top bullpen pitcher, but because of that I went with a cheaper DH and RF option and a weak 6th starter/bullpen guy. Makes sense. Thanks. In this scenario Moustakas is your 2B until Madrigal, arrives and then he is your primary DH? I assume Collins is just your backup catcher in this scenario? What kind of money do you think Mous requires on a 2 year deal? Something like 2/$25M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Makes sense. Thanks. In this scenario Moustakas is your 2B until Madrigal, arrives and then he is your primary DH? I assume Collins is just your backup catcher in this scenario? What kind of money do you think Mous requires on a 2 year deal? Something like 2/$25M? I've been guessing around 2/$20, he could only get 1/$10 last year with no qualifying offer attached so I figure the 2 years gets him, and he also removes the need for Sanchez as a backup IF - just need someone on the roster to back up SS and that's Leury. If Vaughn gets ready then things get slightly crowded in 2021 but likely still at bats available between 1b/DH/2b/3b/pinch hitter from the LH Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ideal? Abreu, Cole, Calhoun/Reddick (team chips in a little bit to save payroll), Moustakas (2 year deal), Will Smith (2 year deal), and Nova/Teheran/I'm open to other ideas. Comes in somewhere around $140 million give or take, strengthens all parts of the team, leaves me the ability to clear out 1b/DH next offseason if Vaughn is ready, gives me the best FA on the market who will also be movable almost every year if he stays healthy, and importantly I still have money to spend in 2021 to fill the gaps of whatever goes wrong this year. Note the tradeoffs I made. I went with the top starter and nearly top bullpen pitcher, but because of that I went with a cheaper DH and RF option and a weak 6th starter/bullpen guy. Also, basically anything good becomes impossible to do if we're paying Abreu and limited to a $120 million payroll, Wheeler included. How much money do you think the additions of Calhoun/Reddick, Moustakas, Will Smith, and Nova/Teheran will cost and how many wins would you project this group to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Moose should handle 1B over Abreu when the dust is settled at 2B. He’s been an average to above average defender his whole career and handled learning 2B fine. Make Abreu DH from here on out, he may even be a 2.5-3 fWAR player if it wasn’t for his bad defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Good Guys said: How much money do you think the additions of Calhoun/Reddick, Moustakas, Will Smith, and Nova/Teheran will cost and how many wins would you project this group to get? I'm not going to guess wins because I've tried that before and been badly wrong, but I think that's the best roster I can put out for the money with a legitimate chance of competing for the division. It could also go badly wrong. With Cole, Abreu, Calhoun/Reddick, Moustakas, Smith, and Nova/Teheran, I wind up with a payroll that is close to $140 million. Start at $70 million including Abreu but not Sanchez and all of the minimum-salary guys the org needs to fill out a roster, $10 million for the RF (trading team chips in a little), $10 million for Moustakas, $10 million for Smith, $35 million for Cole, and $5 million for Nova/Teheran/other 6th starter swingman options. I went all-in with the #1 starter, but everywhere else I spread my money around to try to create balance, flexibility, depth, and improve everything. I'm also not spending premium dollars on the 5th starter spot when we have Lopez and Rodon in the org, I'm not trading away either Madrigal or Vaughn on a deal to fill any spots, I'm not blocking either of those guys, and I'm not assuming teams will take bad deals for valuable players like we've seen suggested for Nimmo. If the payroll limit is $120 million, I have no idea how to make a team I think is competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I've been guessing around 2/$20, he could only get 1/$10 last year with no qualifying offer attached so I figure the 2 years gets him, and he also removes the need for Sanchez as a backup IF - just need someone on the roster to back up SS and that's Leury. If Vaughn gets ready then things get slightly crowded in 2021 but likely still at bats available between 1b/DH/2b/3b/pinch hitter from the LH Side. He has an $11M mutual option with Brewers whom I think wouldn’t mind bringing him back for that cost. If he opts out, he’s looking more AAV and guaranteed years. I suspect he’s gonna get close to 2/$28M or 3/$36M with a team option thrown in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, thxfrthmmrs said: He has an $11M mutual option with Brewers whom I think wouldn’t mind bringing him back for that cost. If he opts out, he’s looking more AAV and guaranteed years. I suspect he’s gonna get close to 2/$28M or 3/$36M with a team option thrown in there. I'd happily do 2/$22 for him with where our team currently sits, and so you could potentially talk me into the higher numbers or the longer deal. With the expanded rosters, if I think his defense will be usable, I could probably find 500+ PAs for him and a roster spot for him each of the next 3 years. But I do struggle to see how a guy who only got $10 million this year is going to get 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ideal? Abreu, Cole, Calhoun/Reddick (team chips in a little bit to save payroll), Moustakas (2 year deal), Will Smith (2 year deal), and Nova/Teheran/I'm open to other ideas. Comes in somewhere around $140 million give or take, strengthens all parts of the team, leaves me the ability to clear out 1b/DH next offseason if Vaughn is ready, gives me the best FA on the market who will also be movable almost every year if he stays healthy, and importantly I still have money to spend in 2021 to fill the gaps of whatever goes wrong this year. Note the tradeoffs I made. I went with the top starter and nearly top bullpen pitcher, but because of that I went with a cheaper DH and RF option and a weak 6th starter/bullpen guy. Also, basically anything good becomes impossible to do if we're paying Abreu and limited to a $120 million payroll, Wheeler included. From what it looks like to me our ideal offseasons are pretty similar with the exception of my preference for starting pitching (Wheeler) and your preference to save on a starter and add a to the bullpen (Will Smith and Nova/Teheran). Costing somewhere between $20-$25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Good Guys said: From what it looks like to me our ideal offseasons are pretty similar with the exception of my preference for starting pitching (Wheeler) and your preference to save on a starter and add a to the bullpen (Will Smith and Nova/Teheran). Costing somewhere between $20-$25 million. I don't want to overspend on a 6th starter when I already have 4.5 starters on this roster, so I need 1 strong starter not 2, and I am not calling this team competitive with the rest of the league next year if they don't get bullpen help regardless of what they do in the rotation or lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Moose should handle 1B over Abreu when the dust is settled at 2B. He’s been an average to above average defender his whole career and handled learning 2B fine. Make Abreu DH from here on out, he may even be a 2.5-3 fWAR player if it wasn’t for his bad defense. He's played 1b 4x his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: He's played 1b 4x his entire career. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: I'd happily do 2/$22 for him with where our team currently sits, and so you could potentially talk me into the higher numbers or the longer deal. With the expanded rosters, if I think his defense will be usable, I could probably find 500+ PAs for him and a roster spot for him each of the next 3 years. But I do struggle to see how a guy who only got $10 million this year is going to get 3 years. Technically he did get a 2 year deal. This year's market is pretty weak for hitters for one, he did improve offensively, and shown added defensive versatility. Also it's not often a non-DH player with a bat like him do not end up getting any interest in free agency. I think last year may have been an aberration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: Then sign JDM and plug him at 1st who is tiers above Moustakas at the plate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't want to overspend on a 6th starter when I already have 4.5 starters on this roster, so I need 1 strong starter not 2, and I am not calling this team competitive with the rest of the league next year if they don't get bullpen help regardless of what they do in the rotation or lineup. This is just where we agree to disagree. I would prefer to make starting pitching as strong as possible with the thought that injury and attrition will occur at some point and you prefer a more balanced approach with the thought of having as few weaknesses as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Technically he did get a 2 year deal. This year's market is pretty weak for hitters for one, he did improve offensively, and shown added defensive versatility. Also it's not often a non-DH player with a bat like him do not end up getting any interest in free agency. I think last year may have been an aberration. a mutual option is not a 2 year deal. They are virtually never picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Good Guys said: This is just where we agree to disagree. I would prefer to make starting pitching as strong as possible with the thought that injury and attrition will occur at some point and you prefer a more balanced approach with the thought of having as few weaknesses as possible. It's not like they won't have pitching though. Assuming they sign 2 starters you're looking at for example purposes Gio Wheeler Cease Lopez Nova Kopech (AAA start/IP limit) Rodon (After ASB) That's 7 ML starting pitchers after the ASB and 6 before. I agree that the secondary SP we pick up should be somebody cheap as Kopech and to a lesser extent Rodon will be up at some point in the season. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to throw a lot of money at that. Edited October 30, 2019 by BackDoorBreach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Good Guys said: This is just where we agree to disagree. I would prefer to make starting pitching as strong as possible with the thought that injury and attrition will occur at some point and you prefer a more balanced approach with the thought of having as few weaknesses as possible. IMO - the pitching isn't strong if you don't upgrade this team's bullpen, regardless of what else you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Then sign JDM and plug him at 1st who is tiers above Moustakas at the plate. Two things 1. JD has never played 1st in majors. 2. After having a year w some back issues, 1st would be a terrible place to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: Wheeler is gonna top out at 150 or 160. There will be a bidding war for his services. Spotrac predicts 4/$93.77 million as Wheeler's "market value". A team might budge and give him more years in the $20-25 million AAV range, but I do not see the bidding getting to the $150-160 range. Patrick Corbin's deal of 6/$140 million I would assume to be his high water mark given some injury history in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: It's not like they won't have pitching though. Assuming they sign 2 starters you're looking at for example purposes Gio Wheeler Cease Lopez Nova Kopech (AAA start/IP limit) Rodon (After ASB) That's 7 ML starting pitchers after the ASB and 6 before. I agree that the secondary SP we pick up should be somebody cheap as Kopech and to a lesser extent Rodon will be up at some point in the season. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to throw a lot of money at that. That's five starters to start the season. That's what most teams begin with. No team uses only 5 starters during the course of a season. If a player gets hurt or is struggling bring Kopech or Rodon up accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Two things 1. JD has never played 1st in majors. 2. After having a year w some back issues, 1st would be a terrible place to play. He did in the minors. Edited October 30, 2019 by BackDoorBreach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: IMO - the pitching isn't strong if you don't upgrade this team's bullpen, regardless of what else you do. The Nationals seem to be doing OK with their bullpen as a weakness. Like I said, agree to disagree. I would prefer starting pitching to be as strong as possible. You disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Two things 1. JD has never played 1st in majors. 2. After having a year w some back issues, 1st would be a terrible place to play. 3. His bat looks like it's in an age-related decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: He's played 1b 4x his entire career. See original post. He has been average to above average at 3B for a while. He learned and handled 2B this year fine. There's no reason to think he couldn't learn and handle 1B, the easiest position of them all. The bar is set pretty low. If he could be even just an average 1B, that's a whole lot better than what Abreu is giving. And no, JDM has been a terrible defender his whole career, that coupled with his back issues he should be staying off the field on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: a mutual option is not a 2 year deal. They are virtually never picked up. Same with a team option, which favors the team even more. If he were to get a 3 year deal, I suspect it will be a 2 year plus team option in 3rd, essentially he's only getting 1 more guaranteed years than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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