Chicago White Sox Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Exactly. I love this cute putting our heads in the sand and screaming that the market will work in Sox favor but the Yankees dipped under the luxury tax so that they could jump back over it with fewer penalties. And they’ll keep doing that dance. No one is screaming the market will work in our favor. But to say the market dynamics are vastly different this year and the Yankees are automatically going to spend hog wild and there is no hope for us is absurd. The Yankees could afford a $300M+ payroll every single year and don’t. Why is that? And last year they could have added Machado or Corbin and didn’t. I still think they’re a huge threat for the top guys, but they aren’t the free agent monster they were under the previous Steinbrenner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, bmags said: Exactly. I love this cute putting our heads in the sand and screaming that the market will work in Sox favor but the Yankees dipped under the luxury tax so that they could jump back over it with fewer penalties. And they’ll keep doing that dance. I think this off season is going to be the opposite of last off season with the big market teams being very aggressive and throwing their weight around. That's why I think the Sox should go heavy in the trade market. If (giant if) they're creative there could be some very good deals to be had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The Yankees will not and cannot move Stanton's contract; I am not sure why people continue to talk about that. Agreed. That contract is not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I think this off season is going to be the opposite of last off season with the big market teams being very aggressive and throwing their weight around. That's why I think the Sox should go heavy in the trade market. If (giant if) they're creative there could be some very good deals to be had. We have nothing to trade really for good baseball players. Edited October 31, 2019 by SonofaRoache 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 36 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I think this off season is going to be the opposite of last off season with the big market teams being very aggressive and throwing their weight around. That's why I think the Sox should go heavy in the trade market. If (giant if) they're creative there could be some very good deals to be had. What assets do the Sox have that we can truly afford to trade? Robert is untouchable, Dunning's value is down due to the injury, Stiever? Vaughn? Madrigal is expected to contribute by June at the latest I would imagine? Not saying we cannot figure out ways to be creative, but we really are not set up to swing a major trade at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 49 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: No one is screaming the market will work in our favor. But to say the market dynamics are vastly different this year and the Yankees are automatically going to spend hog wild and there is no hope for us is absurd. The Yankees could afford a $300M+ payroll every single year and don’t. Why is that? And last year they could have added Machado or Corbin and didn’t. I still think they’re a huge threat for the top guys, but they aren’t the free agent monster they were under the previous Steinbrenner. Why is that? Because the luxury tax escalates for consecutive seasons. If they spent last year, they would have been less able to this year - a year where a number of contracts began to expire, and then ellsbury expires next year. They are in a much more manageable position to dip in a few years even with another monster contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This narrative that the Sox don't have anything to trade is getting ridiculous. You don't know how other teams value their players. Just because they're not on some bullshit list doesn't mean they don't have value and the Sox have plenty of financial flexibility to take on salary and matchup great with teams looking to move contracts. They're in a very good position and I hope they take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: This narrative that the Sox don't have anything to trade is getting ridiculous. You don't know how other teams value their players. Just because they're not on some bullshit list doesn't mean they don't have value and the Sox have plenty of financial flexibility to take on salary and matchup great with teams looking to move contracts. They're in a very good position and I hope they take advantage of it. But when have we ever taken on other team’s big/ger contracts in order to bring additional prospects into the fold...? We’re almost always more willing to save money and get less talent in return when dumping our own players. I mean, I guess we got Leury for Alex Rios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: This narrative that the Sox don't have anything to trade is getting ridiculous. You don't know how other teams value their players. Just because they're not on some bullshit list doesn't mean they don't have value and the Sox have plenty of financial flexibility to take on salary and matchup great with teams looking to move contracts. They're in a very good position and I hope they take advantage of it. +1,000,000. Its also funny because the Sox legitimately could trade for anyone is baseball, and have arguable one of the most valuable prospects in baseball. Now, they're unlikely to move any of those guys, but still. Even after Vaughn, the Sox have plenty to acquire someone like Nimmo, despite what a few here keep saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: +1,000,000. Its also funny because the Sox legitimately could trade for anyone is baseball, and have arguable one of the most valuable prospects in baseball. Now, they're unlikely to move any of those guys, but still. Even after Vaughn, the Sox have plenty to acquire someone like Nimmo, despite what a few here keep saying. Assuming that guys like Robert, Cease, Kopech, Madrigal and Vaughn aren't available, who are the guys that have so much value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Assuming that guys like Robert, Cease, Kopech, Madrigal and Vaughn aren't available, who are the guys that have so much value? I didn’t use the term “so much” value. I said they have plenty in the system after Vaughn to acquire a guy like Nimmo (just an an example of a controllable player that fits and will require a solid return). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: I didn’t use the term “so much” value. I said they have plenty in the system after Vaughn to acquire a guy like Nimmo (just an an example of a controllable player that fits and will require a solid return). Ok, that's not really the point is it. Who? Edited October 31, 2019 by turnin' two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, turnin' two said: Ok, that's not really the point is it. Who? Lol you want me to list off guys with trade value? Stiever, Dunning, Walker, Rutherford, Adolfo, Basabe, Sheets, Thompson, Dalquist, Pilkington, Lambert and Hamilton should all have trade value and are the primary pieces other teams would be interested after the elite prospects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Lol you want me to list off guys with trade value? Stiever, Dunning, Walker, Rutherford, Adolfo, Basabe, Sheets, Thompson, Dalquist, Pilkington, Lambert and Hamilton should all have trade value and are the primary pieces other teams would be interested after the elite prospects. If I was the Mets GM, there is literally no reasonable package you could make out of those players that would convince me to give up Nimmo right now. I'd turn down any 4 of those guys. Maybe talk to me at the deadline if some of them have some success. Brandon Nimmo is a 27 year old former first round pick with 3 remaining years of control and a 4-win season 2 years ago. I don't care how many other OFs they have, there is no good reason to give that up without a top 50 prospect keying the return. If I go back to Carlos Rodon after 2017, even after he had his first injury problem, and say "would I trade Carlos Rodon for a package of 5 of those guys?" I'd have said "good lord no." Those guys have enough value to do the kinds of deals the White Sox did in 2015 and 2016; getting guys who are now in their last 1-2 years before free agency, who don't have a lot of time left to build any additional value with their team and who are getting expensive. They're not valueless, but the only way they could bring Nimmo in return is if the Mets FO is awful. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If I was the Mets GM, there is literally no reasonable package you could make out of those players that would convince me to give up Nimmo right now. I'd turn down any 4 of those guys. Maybe talk to me at the deadline if some of them have some success. Brandon Nimmo is a 27 year old former first round pick with 3 remaining years of control and a 4-win season 2 years ago. I don't care how many other OFs they have, there is no good reason to give that up without a top 50 prospect keying the return. If I go back to Carlos Rodon after 2017, even after he had his first injury problem, and say "would I trade Carlos Rodon for a package of 5 of those guys?" I'd have said "good lord no." Those guys have enough value to do the kinds of deals the White Sox did in 2015 and 2016; getting guys who are now in their last 1-2 years before free agency, who don't have a lot of time left to build any additional value with their team and who are getting expensive. They're not valueless, but the only way they could bring Nimmo in return is if the Mets FO is awful. You'd probably be looking at converting current bullpen pieces for nimmo (bummer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: You'd probably be looking at converting current bullpen pieces for nimmo (bummer) Bummer plus a couple of those guys would be far more intriguing, and also a move that is much tougher for the White Sox to do since they're not exactly overloaded on bullpen pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: The Yankees are going to have to get creative with pitching, for sure....Gregorious and Gardner are free agents, and/or trying to dump Stanton's contract on someone for 30-50 cents on the dollar opens up space. Not to mention Sabathia, Betances and Encarnacion all off the books, as well. So they're losing $60 million, more or less. That's assuming Aroldis Chapman doesn't opt out!!!! Can Chapman get more than two years and $34.4 million on the open market? MAYBE??? PROBABLY!!! And if he doesn't want to go to a West Coast team (limited no trade list), going FA now opens up possibilities for him if he does want to leave the Yankees (for whatever reason). If so, the Yankees will be down almost $80 million in payroll from 2019...before arb and built-in increases. As its been stated before the Yankees do not have much payroll flexibility. With all those guys you stated above off the books they are down to an estimated $201 million after arbitration and built in increases. With the luxury tax at $208 million. Arbitration and built in increases will consume all of that $80 million. Edited October 31, 2019 by Good Guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Chapman opting out would save them some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The Yankees also have a bunch of money coming off after the '20 season in Tanaka ($23M), Ellsbury ($21M), LeMaheiu ($12M) and possibly Happ ($17M but has vesting option). They can easily backload any contract because they're the freakin Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The problem with the White Sox and the trade market isn’t that they don’t have the necessary ammo, it’s that they still need all of that ammo for their own team. There’s talent, but there’s not a surplus of talent, when you consider the holes still on the roster. What they DO have in surplus is (theoretical) payroll space. That’s why they need to use free agency to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: The problem with the White Sox and the trade market isn’t that they don’t have the necessary ammo, it’s that they still need all of that ammo for their own team. There’s talent, but there’s not a surplus of talent, when you consider the holes still on the roster. What they DO have in surplus is (theoretical) payroll space. That’s why they need to use free agency to get better. The other part of it is...outside of 3 guys who are near untouchable (Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn), almost everyone else in their minors has a knock against them. Either injury, struggling at AA, or recent draftee/hasn't reached AA yet. Outside of those 3 guys, it's entirely possible there are a few good quality ballplayers, maybe even really good players. But, you can't convince me you believe anyone else in our system aside from will be contributing to a big league ballclub in 2 years, that they have a high likelihood of success, or that you know which guys are the best to bet on. Some of those guys may well turn it around before the deadline this year, and it would be nice if they did, but right now? Nah, they're all gambles at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 33 minutes ago, Good Guys said: As its been stated before the Yankees do not have much payroll flexibility. With all those guys you stated above off the books they are down to an estimated $201 million after arbitration and built in increases. With the luxury tax at $208 million. Arbitration and built in increases will consume all of that $80 million. Trust me, the Yankees will get what they need to get. People seem to have this conception that the Yankees like to spend money simply because they have so much of it, and so it then follows logically that if it looks like they’ll run out, that’s when they’ll stop. Yet year in and year out, everyone seems baffled at the end of the offseason either because the Yankees spent way more than expected or way less. But when you look at it, the pattern is really extremely simple: When have the Yankees spent a ton in free agency? When they’ve needed to in order to meet the needs of their roster. Why didn’t they spend on Machado last year when they could have? Because they didn’t need a third baseman or a shortstop. Why not Harper? Because they didn’t need a corner OF/DH. They needed pitching, and they went and got it. Cashman said at the beginning of the offseason that he needed two starters. Come opening day, he had Paxton and Happ. One was a trade, one was a signing, but he got them. Given Sabathia’s retirement and German’s likely suspension/dismissal, this offseason is probably going to be the same. The Yankees are going to get a couple starters, and as usual, all available options will be on the table for them. This year, that may mean snatching one of the big free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The Yankees also have a bunch of money coming off after the '20 season in Tanaka ($23M), Ellsbury ($21M), LeMaheiu ($12M) and possibly Happ ($17M but has vesting option). They can easily backload any contract because they're the freakin Yankees. I'm not arguing that they couldn't do that or that they won't go over the luxury tax. But stating that the Yankees will have tons of money beneath the luxury tax threshold this offseason is just inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guys Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Trust me, the Yankees will get what they need to get. People seem to have this conception that the Yankees like to spend money simply because they have so much of it, and so it then follows logically that if it looks like they’ll run out, that’s when they’ll stop. Yet year in and year out, everyone seems baffled at the end of the offseason either because the Yankees spent way more than expected or way less. But when you look at it, the pattern is really extremely simple: When have the Yankees spent a ton in free agency? When they’ve needed to in order to meet the needs of their roster. Why didn’t they spend on Machado last year when they could have? Because they didn’t need a third baseman or a shortstop. Why not Harper? Because they didn’t need a corner OF/DH. They needed pitching, and they went and got it. Cashman said at the beginning of the offseason that he needed two starters. Come opening day, he had Paxton and Happ. One was a trade, one was a signing, but he got them. Given Sabathia’s retirement and German’s likely suspension/dismissal, this offseason is probably going to be the same. The Yankees are going to get a couple starters, and as usual, all available options will be on the table for them. This year, that may mean snatching one of the big free agents. Paxton and Happ were plan b for them after they were outbid for Corbin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Good Guys said: Paxton and Happ were plan b for them after they were outbid for Corbin. They didn’t get Corbin because his price exceed what they thought his value was. Cashman said it at the time and reiterated it the other day. Which is how the White a Sox can get Cole. We seem to assume that we can’t have because the Yankees will always outbid us. That’s not true — the Yankees will bid as high as they believe he’s worth to them. The White Sox can beat that if they want to. Edited October 31, 2019 by Eminor3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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