Rick Hahn's Resume as GM

[poppysox]

As the poster who called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his abilities to take us to the next level...I will again express my opinion on this subject.  Most fair minded people would agree that a BA from the University Michigan, a Harvard Law School degree and a MBA from Kellogg School of Management would require a fair amount of intelligence.  Several years of work in the role of being a sports agent and 17 years in FO roles is an impressive background for the position of GM.  

The reality of the FO is that our owner is one of the most hands on owners in all of baseball and that owner has a great deal of confidence in KW.  Therefore any GM for this organization has to deal with that 3 headed monster.  I believe that the last 4 seasons have given RH a bigger voice in the decisions we are discussing...how the rebuild is accomplished, trades, extensions, drafts and free agent decisions.  Hahn's negotiated extensions on Eaton, Anderson, Sale and Q where excellent.  The subsequent trades for top talent form the backbone of our period of contention.  Top baseball people sing the praises of that group.  I think the recent drafts of Madrigal & Vaughn are excellent with the Jury still out on Collins.  The acquiring of Robert & Abreu are also great but perhaps less clear if all credit for those goes to Hahn or the 3 headed monster. 

RH is being held accountable for results as it should be but he operates under guidelines set by ownership of budget and many personnel decisions such as Cooper and maybe even Ricky.  Although I understand the frustration of chasing top end free agent talent last offseason...I don't blame RH for making what they felt was their best effort and coming in second.  It happens.  I also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20.  In hindsight Alonso was a disaster but none of us saw his performance coming when he was signed.

Lastly I would like to say that many posters have pithy remarks of what other posters have to say.  Try posting your own ideas of what should be done rather than shooting holes in others posts.

 

[Sox72]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As the poster who called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his abilities to take us to the next level...I will again express my opinion on this subject.  Most fair minded people would agree that a BA from the University Michigan, a Harvard Law School degree and a MBA from Kellogg School of Management would require a fair amount of intelligence.  Several years of work in the role of being a sports agent and 17 years in FO roles is an impressive background for the position of GM.  

The reality of the FO is that our owner is one of the most hands on owners in all of baseball and that owner has a great deal of confidence in KW.  Therefore any GM for this organization has to deal with that 3 headed monster.  I believe that the last 4 seasons have given RH a bigger voice in the decisions we are discussing...how the rebuild is accomplished, trades, extensions, drafts and free agent decisions.  Hahn's negotiated extensions on Eaton, Anderson, Sale and Q where excellent.  The subsequent trades for top talent form the backbone of our period of contention.  Top baseball people sing the praises of that group.  I think the recent drafts of Madrigal & Vaughn are excellent with the Jury still out on Collins.  The acquiring of Robert & Abreu are also great but perhaps less clear if all credit for those goes to Hahn or the 3 headed monster. 

RH is being held accountable for results as it should be but he operates under guidelines set by ownership of budget and many personnel decisions such as Cooper and maybe even Ricky.  Although I understand the frustration of chasing top end free agent talent last offseason...I don't blame RH for making what they felt was their best effort and coming in second.  It happens.  I also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20.  In hindsight Alonso was a disaster but none of us saw his performance coming when he was signed.

Lastly I would like to say that many posters have pithy remarks of what other posters have to say.  Try posting your own ideas of what should be done rather than shooting holes in others posts.

 

Very good points. But what still gets me, with respect to last off-season, is the leaking of the low-ball offer to Macahado (which allegedly came from the Sox organization) gave the Padres the idea that they had the ability to jump in. For a “master negotiator,” that was a pretty piss poor mistake. 

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As the poster who called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his abilities to take us to the next level...I will again express my opinion on this subject.  Most fair minded people would agree that a BA from the University Michigan, a Harvard Law School degree and a MBA from Kellogg School of Management would require a fair amount of intelligence.  Several years of work in the role of being a sports agent and 17 years in FO roles is an impressive background for the position of GM.  

The reality of the FO is that our owner is one of the most hands on owners in all of baseball and that owner has a great deal of confidence in KW.  Therefore any GM for this organization has to deal with that 3 headed monster.  I believe that the last 4 seasons have given RH a bigger voice in the decisions we are discussing...how the rebuild is accomplished, trades, extensions, drafts and free agent decisions.  Hahn's negotiated extensions on Eaton, Anderson, Sale and Q where excellent.  The subsequent trades for top talent form the backbone of our period of contention.  Top baseball people sing the praises of that group.  I think the recent drafts of Madrigal & Vaughn are excellent with the Jury still out on Collins.  The acquiring of Robert & Abreu are also great but perhaps less clear if all credit for those goes to Hahn or the 3 headed monster. 

RH is being held accountable for results as it should be but he operates under guidelines set by ownership of budget and many personnel decisions such as Cooper and maybe even Ricky.  Although I understand the frustration of chasing top end free agent talent last offseason...I don't blame RH for making what they felt was their best effort and coming in second.  It happens.  I also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20.  In hindsight Alonso was a disaster but none of us saw his performance coming when he was signed.

Lastly I would like to say that many posters have pithy remarks of what other posters have to say.  Try posting your own ideas of what should be done rather than shooting holes in others posts.

 

Some of these are very fair points, but ultimately Hahn is the primary day-to-day decision maker and therefore he should be the most accountable for our recent failures.  I think way too often KW is treated as the boogie man by Hahn supporters and to me that’s bullshit.

Also, there is no doubt he made three quality trades to kick off the rebuild and Robert looks like he will be the real deal, but after those four moves it’s pretty sad how little he’s been able to accomplish over the last three seasons.  And yes, I get he ran out of trade chips, but our recent drafts have very been underwhelming outside of top five picks, our LatAm operation a complete non-factor, we continue to struggle at player development, and worst of all I have seen very little creativity in terms of using major league roster spots.  Most rebuilds end up with a diamond in the rough or two and we have almost nothing to show in that regard, because we wasted a fuckton of at-bats on guys like Yolmer & Engel that simply don’t move the needle.  Because of all these factors, our margin of error is razor thin and we need to hit a home run in free agency for this rebuild to be successful.  So yeah, while I can appreciate his good moves, I simply can’t ignore the position the bad ones have put us in.

[Chicago White Sox]

20 minutes ago, Sox72 said:

Very good points. But what still gets me, with respect to last off-season, is the leaking of the low-ball offer to Macahado (which allegedly came from the Sox organization) gave the Padres the idea that they had the ability to jump in. For a “master negotiator,” that was a pretty piss poor mistake. 

Last offseason should be a textbook of what not to do when negotiating huge contracts.  They basically convinced the Padres to jump in by publicizing their low-ball offer and were overly cocky for no apparent reason.

[SCCWS]

15 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As the poster who called Rick Hahn "a very smart guy" and expressed optimism in his abilities to take us to the next level...I will again express my opinion on this subject.  Most fair minded people would agree that a BA from the University Michigan, a Harvard Law School degree and a MBA from Kellogg School of Management would require a fair amount of intelligence.  Several years of work in the role of being a sports agent and 17 years in FO roles is an impressive background for the position of GM.  

The reality of the FO is that our owner is one of the most hands on owners in all of baseball and that owner has a great deal of confidence in KW.  Therefore any GM for this organization has to deal with that 3 headed monster.  I believe that the last 4 seasons have given RH a bigger voice in the decisions we are discussing...how the rebuild is accomplished, trades, extensions, drafts and free agent decisions.  Hahn's negotiated extensions on Eaton, Anderson, Sale and Q where excellent.  The subsequent trades for top talent form the backbone of our period of contention.  Top baseball people sing the praises of that group.  I think the recent drafts of Madrigal & Vaughn are excellent with the Jury still out on Collins.  The acquiring of Robert & Abreu are also great but perhaps less clear if all credit for those goes to Hahn or the 3 headed monster. 

RH is being held accountable for results as it should be but he operates under guidelines set by ownership of budget and many personnel decisions such as Cooper and maybe even Ricky.  Although I understand the frustration of chasing top end free agent talent last offseason...I don't blame RH for making what they felt was their best effort and coming in second.  It happens.  I also try to remember that hindsight is 20/20.  In hindsight Alonso was a disaster but none of us saw his performance coming when he was signed.

Lastly I would like to say that many posters have pithy remarks of what other posters have to say.  Try posting your own ideas of what should be done rather than shooting holes in others posts.

 

I would add, from a fan standpoint, RH is a failure. With the present format of divisional leaders and two WC spots, going 7 years w/o an appearance is failure for the fans. But the owner picked him and he has stuck with him despite the failure on the field.  That tells me the top priority of the owner is on some spreadsheet, not on the field results.   JR must feel Hahn has produced the results he wants where he wants to see them.  

I know you said  that JR is one of the most hands-on owners in baseball. It appeared he was years ago but he is 83. I do not live in the Chicago area. Does Jerry regularly appear before the media to answer questions and give statements on the franchise? I know on the 2nd place comment, the team released a statement from him "with no recollection".  But I didn't see where he did a live interview. Where I do live, the Tampa and Boston owners are seen and heard pretty regularly. 

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I would add, from a fan standpoint, RH is a failure. With the present format of divisional leaders and two WC spots, going 7 years w/o an appearance is failure for the fans. But the owner picked him and he has stuck with him despite the failure on the field.  That tells me the top priority of the owner is on some spreadsheet, not on the field results.   JR must feel Hahn has produced the results he wants where he wants to see them.  

I know you said  that JR is one of the most hands-on owners in baseball. It appeared he was years ago but he is 83. I do not live in the Chicago area. Does Jerry regularly appear before the media to answer questions and give statements on the franchise? I know on the 2nd place comment, the team released a statement from him "with no recollection".  But I didn't see where he did a live interview. Where I do live, the Tampa and Boston owners are seen and heard pretty regularly. 

JR tends to operate behind the scenes but isn't a front man for media purposes.  Jerry is a fan just like us.  How many of us would keep our noses out of it?  Not many of us I would wager.  It's in the blood of a die hard fan to have strong opinions.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, AJSOX said:

I'm not really sure how to evaluate him. He does really well with contracts but his trades and FA signings are pretty bad which would lead me to believe the people under him advising him. Our evaluations of players are bad and I guess overall that's Hahn's or KW's job to see we have the best avail. I think his overall plans have been sound, just the players he signed have failed.

This sentiment is wild to me. He’s responsible for the people under him and he’s been GM for 7 years! 

[poppysox]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

This sentiment is wild to me. He’s responsible for the people under him and he’s been GM for 7 years! 

We are exactly where RH said we would be when the rebuild started.  I think RH would agree with you if the next 4 or 5 years come up with zip.  I am a Bears fan that thought this would be our year as did many on this board I would wager.  Were we wrong or is this just part of the process.  I don't know...time will tell.

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 hours ago, Blackout Friday said:

I had really high hopes for the Hahn era, but he’s been disappointing and after last offseason I really have no faith left in his abilities. 

Which part of last off-season? 

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We are exactly where RH said we would be when the rebuild started.  I think RH would agree with you if the next 4 or 5 years come up with zip.  I am a Bears fan that thought this would be our year as did many on this board I would wager.  Were we wrong or is this just part of the process.  I don't know...time will tell.

He took over prior to 2013. There is no reason it should take any team that long to make the playoffs. He was in charge in tearing down the longtime core, the one who decided to accelerate it one year later, couldn’t even get out to a winning record for two years, then had to do a bare bones rebuild. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Rick Hahn hasn't maximized the available resources that have been afforded to him. This is a triumvirate though and it's tough to pin any singular move on Rick Hahn specifically. They don't spend in the international market but that's because the owner is risk averse in regards to forking over $$ to 16-years olds. The club's pro scouting operation is horrendous and they've wasted money in recent years, albeit in years they were attempting to lose on purpose, on players that didn't recoup much value. Last off-season is the perfect example. The Manny Machado miss is not Rick Hahn's fault. Hahn would have just paid Machado 10/310 but that's wasn't his call. On the other hand, he can absolutely be blamed for the Kelvin Herrera signing for example. The Sox are run like a mob family. Hahn handles the day to day and takes the arrows generally while KW still makes many of the decisions and Reinsdorf provides the budget but is never heard from. I think we'd all prefer a different front office but the owner is by far the biggest issue. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

He took over prior to 2013. There is no reason it should take any team that long to make the playoffs. He was in charge in tearing down the longtime core, the one who decided to accelerate it one year later, couldn’t even get out to a winning record for two years, then had to do a bare bones rebuild. 

It was absolutely not his call to accelerate it. You honestly believe that it was Rick Hahn's idea to add during that 2014 off-season instead of continuing on a "rebuilding" path after the Abreu signing? 

[NCsoxfan]

If Hahn left the White Sox would he be considered for another MLB GM position?

 

my answer is an unequivocal NO.

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Rick Hahn hasn't maximized the available resources that have been afforded to him. This is a triumvirate though and it's tough to pin any singular move on Rick Hahn specifically. They don't spend in the international market but that's because the owner is risk averse in regards to forking over $$ to 16-years olds. The club's pro scouting operation is horrendous and they've wasted money in recent years, albeit in years they were attempting to lose on purpose, on players that didn't recoup much value. Last off-season is the perfect example. The Manny Machado miss is not Rick Hahn's fault. Hahn would have just paid Machado 10/310 but that's wasn't his call. On the other hand, he can absolutely be blamed for the Kelvin Herrera signing for example. The Sox are run like a mob family. Hahn handles the day to day and takes the arrows generally while KW still makes many of the decisions and Reinsdorf provides the budget but is never heard from. I think we'd all prefer a different front office but the owner is by far the biggest issue. 

Great post Jimmy.  I do agree that Jerry is the bigger problem and KW/Hahn have made it pretty clear they wanted to rebuild earlier but Jerry wanted to keep going for it (despite not providing them with a sufficient budget to do so).  It’s no doubt tough to run a high end operation with the restrictions Jerry puts in place.

Regarding Machado, are you suggesting that Reinsdorf wouldn’t let them go beyond 8/$250M?  That has always been my assumption and why our front office decided to add his friends.

Also, what kind of decisions is KW still making?  Is he actually interfering that much with the day to day stuff?

[AJSOX]

55 minutes ago, bmags said:

This sentiment is wild to me. He’s responsible for the people under him and he’s been GM for 7 years! 

Is he or is it KW and Reinsdorf? or perhaps all 3 are to blame but seeing as Hahn is the low man of the 3 it's hard for me to point a finger at him alone. I do believe it takes a team to make decisions

[poppysox]

17 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

If Hahn left the White Sox would he be considered for another MLB GM position?

 

my answer is an unequivocal NO.

My answer would be YES but neither of us knows for sure.  Many of us would have rated Dave Dombrowski very highly but apparently he got unqualified recently.  Actually...if RH would have been successful in his pursuit of Machado many would be blaming him now for the ridiculous money paid to such an overrated player after the very average year he had.  

[NCsoxfan]

4 minutes ago, poppysox said:

My answer would be YES but neither of us knows for sure.  Many of us would have rated Dave Dombrowski very highly but apparently he got unqualified recently.  Actually...if RH would have been successful in his pursuit of Machado many would be blaming him now for the ridiculous money paid to such an overrated player after the very average year he had.  

Have we ever seen rumors that he was being considered for other positions?

[NWINFan]

Most Major League GMS don't get seven straight losing seasons to prove themselves. However, I think this franchise has problems that go beyond Hahn, and I don't know much better some other GM would have done.  Real decisive action should have been taken in the 2011-2012 off season and it didn't happen. The team is still paying for it.

Having said all of this, I think we all know the franchise is at a real important phase. Hahn's reputation is on the line, even though I wonder how much his hands are tied. There were be no Cole or Stasberg. 

[AJSOX]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Also, what kind of decisions is KW still making?  Is he actually interfering that much with the day to day stuff?

Good question..I think he is

[AJSOX]

2 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Most Major League GMS don't get seven straight losing seasons to prove themselves. However, I think this franchise has problems that go beyond Hahn, and I don't know much better some other GM would have done.  Real decisive action should have been taken in the 2011-2012 off season and it didn't happen. The team is still paying for it.

Having said all of this, I think we all know the franchise is at a real important phase. Hahn's reputation is on the line, even though I wonder how much his hands are tied. There were be no Cole or Stasberg. 

Very much agree and how I see it

[wsd]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Last offseason should be a textbook of what not to do when negotiating huge contracts.  They basically convinced the Padres to jump in by publicizing their low-ball offer and were overly cocky for no apparent reason.

This is the opposite of true.  That leak did not come from the White Sox and nobody knows who gave that figure to Levine 

[Y2Jimmy0]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Great post Jimmy.  I do agree that Jerry is the bigger problem and KW/Hahn have made it pretty clear they wanted to rebuild earlier but Jerry wanted to keep going for it (despite not providing them with a sufficient budget to do so).  It’s no doubt tough to run a high end operation with the restrictions Jerry puts in place.

Regarding Machado, are you suggesting that Reinsdorf wouldn’t let them go beyond 8/$250M?  That has always been my assumption and why our front office decided to add his friends.

Also, what kind of decisions is KW still making?  Is he actually interfering that much with the day to day stuff?

I am of the belief that Hahn/KW added Jay and Alonso because they knew their owner wouldn't be the highest bidder. They knew that the player wanted $300 million. They couldn't go there. And yes, Kenny is very involved. He's the Executive VP of the organization. Hahn has lots of autonomy and handles the day to day responsibilities of the club. If trades are made and free agents are signed though, you better believe Kenny is on board. 

[Chicago White Sox]

20 minutes ago, wsd said:

This is the opposite of true.  That leak did not come from the White Sox and nobody knows who gave that figure to Levine 

Where did the Buster & Passan 7/$175M rumors come from?  And are you saying they didn’t have Merkin come out and claim the Sox’s offer had not changed?

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[WBWSF]

What posters seem to forget is that the White Sox under Hahn have been one of the most profitable teams in MLB. Forbes magazine said that the 2018 CWS were the 6th most profitable team in MLB. I would make a guess that the 2019 CWS were just as profitable. Low payrolls equal huge profits for JR and his investors. With the new local TV contract the team will be more profitable. I don't expect  Hahn spending a lot of money this off season on free agents. Hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to wait and see. I've said it before and I'll say it again the franchise would be better off if I was the GM. I write JR a letter every year requesting to be interviewed for the White Sox GM job. So far I have not received a response from him.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

What posters seem to forget is that the White Sox under Hahn have been one of the most profitable teams in MLB. Forbes magazine said that the 2018 CWS were the 6th most profitable team in MLB. I would make a guess that the 2019 CWS were just as profitable. Low payrolls equal huge profits for JR and his investors. With the new local TV contract the team will be more profitable. I don't expect  Hahn spending a lot of money this off season on free agents. Hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to wait and see. I've said it before and I'll say it again the franchise would be better off if I was the GM. I write JR a letter every year requesting to be interviewed for the White Sox GM job. So far I have not received a response from him.

You haven’t received a response because you are a legit crazy person.