Rick Hahn's Resume as GM

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I look at it like any other job.

I have a boss. My boss has been with the company a long time. He has a structure that has worked, and a belief system that has got him here. 

I have my own opinions. I can validate my thoughts and changes with stastical evidence supporting my claim. At the end of the day, something's wont change regardless of my efforts. All I can continue to do is quantify decisions, evaluate their monetary impact, and relay those conclusions and opinions to my superior. 

If my superior doesn't want to change a process, or change the way we execute a certain aspect of our business then so be it - I get back to the drawing board analyzing another area of opportunity in hope of getting him to sign off.

As an employee I can become frustrated believing my thoughts arent valued enough and leave, or I can be happy that my boss treats me respectfully, pays me competitively, and only holds me accountable for the things I can impact and change.

It's not any other job, and he is an executive. Everyone has context. Some CEOs have more antagonistic boards or difficult shareholders to deal with, tougher external forces. They are still the CEOs and are judged on the performance. Hahn isn't the CEO, but he's in a high enough position that this rings completely hollow. He still has plenty of leeway to improve the performance of the white sox.

James Dolan is a terrible owner. But how many GMs have been in charge of the knicks that people have been like "well actually they were good it was just the owner!"

 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If being your own man here isn't allowed, how was Larry Himes able to stick it out 3 years? Obviously, if he would have placated JR a bit more, he would have been re-upped, but still, 3 years, builds a 94 win team with the lowest payroll in baseball, and really set them up for a really good run, only to be squandered. If Rick could have built this team up to a 94 win team in 3 seasons, if JR dropped him, he would have no problem finding another job. 

The behavior of JR in the 80s compared to late 90s and beyond is pretty striking. In both of his orgs he eventually seemed to get to the equilibrium of a cohesive frontoffice/ownership relationship with an us against them mentality against often coaches and players, and fans and media.

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

The behavior of JR in the 80s compared to late 90s and beyond is pretty striking. In both of his orgs he eventually seemed to get to the equilibrium of a cohesive frontoffice/ownership relationship with an us against them mentality against often coaches and players, and fans and media.

I did notice post strike, Ron Schueler, who, while not always right, did become ultra conservative. They had the outlier of Albert Belle, but other than that, it was Kruk and Sabo and the annual reclamation project in RF and of course the white flag trade. At the beginning, JR went after Fisk, Floyd Bannister was one of the more coveted free agents. Obviously the money is a bit different now, but you have to be very accurate if you are doing it the way the Sox have been doing it. 

KW was pretty aggressive but most of his moves were still half assed. Everything worked out in 2005. AJP, Dye, Iguchi, Hermanson was great until he was injured. Bobby Jenks as a minor league waiver claim. But perfection isn't going to happen very often. 

It seems the Sox, even when trying to win, want to save something for later instead of lets be stacked on opening day. Usually that leads to subtracting at the deadline, not adding. 

We will see how it goes. They are going to spend. They have to spend better. It would be nice if they develop a guy or two we never think to count on. But it's been the same thing for so long and very little organizational change leads one to think the results not being the same would be the surprise.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dick Allen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's not any other job, and he is an executive. Everyone has context. Some CEOs have more antagonistic boards or difficult shareholders to deal with, tougher external forces. They are still the CEOs and are judged on the performance. Hahn isn't the CEO, but he's in a high enough position that this rings completely hollow. He still has plenty of leeway to improve the performance of the white sox.

James Dolan is a terrible owner. But how many GMs have been in charge of the knicks that people have been like "well actually they were good it was just the owner!"

 

An executive still has a direct report. 

The reason I think my example makes sense is because Rick spends a lot of time patting himself on the back for any "change" the organization makes - this leads me to believe that these are battles he is fighting behind closed doors. His emphasis on the organization being different leads me to believe these have been his biggest battles.

That said, the easiest way to show your boss that you know what you're doing and to get him to change is to succeed somewhere - rick has not exactly shown that ability in FA, that's for sure. You usually dont ask for more when you arent maximizing what you already get.

[mqr]

Idk why we have to do this is every 3 months. He had a a terrible first 4 seasons, and the jury is still out on the last 3. What else is there to discuss?

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

An executive still has a direct report. 

The reason I think my example makes sense is because Rick spends a lot of time patting himself on the back for any "change" the organization makes - this leads me to believe that these are battles he is fighting behind closed doors. His emphasis on the organization being different leads me to believe these have been his biggest battles.

That said, the easiest way to show your boss that you know what you're doing and to get him to change is to succeed somewhere - rick has not exactly shown that ability in FA, that's for sure. You usually dont ask for more when you arent maximizing what you already get.

Publicly emphasing you were right all along and your superior may have been wrong? I'm not buying that. Rick does go out of his way to kiss JR's ring every time a major player is signed or traded for. I doubt he would basically taunt JR and/or KW like that. 

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

Idk why we have to do this is every 3 months. He had a a terrible first 4 seasons, and the jury is still out on the last 3. What else is there to discuss?

Really nothing, but this is the MLB offseason, and if it's like the last couple, there is really nothing that hasn't been discussed to discuss until close to spring training. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Publicly emphasing you were right all along and your superior may have been wrong? I'm not buying that. Rick does go out of his way to kiss JR's ring every time a major player is signed or traded for. I doubt he would basically taunt JR and/or KW like that. 

I dont think he is emphasizing he is right, ftr. 

I am saying when he claims the organization is shaking stigmas, it's due to those changes being deemed neccessary by him. 

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I believe he said it, but I think it was tongue in cheek. I will never think JR wants to finish in 2nd place. It makes no sense. 

I think it's obvious that this is what happened.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I dont think he is emphasizing he is right, ftr. 

I am saying when he claims the organization is shaking stigmas, it's due to those changes being deemed neccessary by him. 

Wouldn't that mean change from the KW/JR way? I really think all 3 are on the same page, or Hahn would have taken another job somewhere else when he had the chance. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Wouldn't that mean change from the KW/JR way? I really think all 3 are on the same page, or Hahn would have taken another job somewhere else when he had the chance. 

He's paid well, and has great job security. I have no idea why people think it's a bad job or that he should move on.

He doesnt have to succeed to maintain his job title - that's a dream job in that industry with inflated turnover rates.

Edit: I wish jerry was my boss ha

Edited November 11, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[mqr]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Wouldn't that mean change from the KW/JR way? I really think all 3 are on the same page, or Hahn would have taken another job somewhere else when he had the chance. 

Hahn has the best job in sports, well maybe second best.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He's paid well, and has great job security. I have no idea why people think it's a bad job or that he should move on.

He doesnt have to succeed to maintain his job title - that's a dream job in that industry with inflated turnover rates.

If you are a lackey and have an opportunity to call the shots, many people take calling the shots. That's why I don't think he is currently a lackey. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

If you are a lackey and have an opportunity to call the shots, many people take calling the shots. That's why I don't think he is currently a lackey. 

Right, and he's never really worked anywhere else. He had two years of a real job outside of the white sox, and it was on the agent side for only 2 years. This is the family he knows. He can't reach back to a world of knowledge on how things are done.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If you are a lackey and have an opportunity to call the shots, many people take calling the shots. That's why I don't think he is currently a lackey. 

I'm not sure what this means, but most people in life would take job security (especially in their "dream job") over more perceived power.

If the titles are the same, the pay is the same, but one job will hold onto you for decades while the other will throw you out at first sign of struggle... I think it's obvious which job I'd take.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not sure what this means, but most people in life would take job security (especially in their "dream job") over more perceived power.

If the titles are the same, the pay is the same, but one job will hold onto you for decades while the other will throw you out at first sign of struggle... I think it's obvious which job I'd take.

I would think a guy like Hahn has confidence in himself and if he was GM by title only and was offered a real GM job he would take it. 

He's not going to have a hard time finding employment. Maybe in baseball, if he failed, yes. But there is a time the wings have to be spread. He is the White Sox GM. They mom and pop it for the most part, but he's part of the 3 headed monster. Not all of the mistakes of the past 7 years were his, but I'm sure plenty were. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I would think a guy like Hahn has confidence in himself and if he was GM by title only and was offered a real GM job he would take it. 

He's not going to have a hard time finding employment. Maybe in baseball, if he failed, yes. But there is a time the wings have to be spread. He is the White Sox GM. They mom and pop it for the most part, but he's part of the 3 headed monster. Not all of the mistakes of the past 7 years were his, but I'm sure plenty were. 

1. I am in no way implying he has no power. All positions require some deferal of power unless you're the owner.

2. Having confidence in yourself does not equal ignoring industry turnover trends.

3. I am not arguing he does not deserve blame for failures - he absolutely does. I'm stating that his successes do not dictate his job security which is a hell of a job to have. 

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Right, and he's never really worked anywhere else. He had two years of a real job outside of the white sox, and it was on the agent side for only 2 years. This is the family he knows. He can't reach back to a world of knowledge on how things are done.

RH is a member of a very small club and talks most every day with other members of the club.  I believe he knows how things are being done.  None of us know what constraints he works under.  As I've said in other posts...I believe JR, KW & RH work together like a 3 headed monster.  Dave Dombrowski is an example of the lone wolf type of GM...but we see that doesn't always work out and when that type of GM leaves the organization is left with budget problems frequently.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

RH is a member of a very small club and talks most every day with other members of the club.  I believe he knows how things are being done.  None of us know what constraints he works under.  As I've said in other posts...I believe JR, KW & RH work together like a 3 headed monster.  Dave Dombrowski is an example of the lone wolf type of GM...but we see that doesn't always work out and when that type of GM leaves the organization is left with budget problems frequently.

Dave Dombrowski's win percentage in the last decade to hahn's is a different stratosphere.

[poppysox]

Just now, bmags said:

Dave Dombrowski's win percentage in the last decade to hahn's is a different stratosphere.

I am aware...but I wouldn't want him.  Every organization is a shambles when he wears out his welcome.  Half the people on this board could sign nice players with unlimited financial resource and no care for the future.  DD is a win now GM but not a long-term guy IMO.

 

[Jerksticks]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

I am aware...but I wouldn't want him.  Every organization is a shambles when he wears out his welcome.  Half the people on this board could sign nice players with unlimited financial resource and no care for the future.  DD is a win now GM but not a long-term guy IMO.

 

This is also all Epstein is.  Hey go spend half a billion- so progressive!

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

This is also all Epstein is.  Hey go spend half a billion- so progressive!

Epstein had some legitimately advantageous tactics that have been crushed by the latest CBAs.

While I would take Friedman over Theo, I don't really hate on GMs that rightly put the pedal to the medal with a team that could win it all. You don't know that you have enough until it's all over, and you don't want to have any what-ifs at that point.

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

This is also all Epstein is.  Hey go spend half a billion- so progressive!

I agree...I almost included Theo in my remarks.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

Epstein had some legitimately advantageous tactics that have been crushed by the latest CBAs.

While I would take Friedman over Theo, I don't really hate on GMs that rightly put the pedal to the medal with a team that could win it all. You don't know that you have enough until it's all over, and you don't want to have any what-ifs at that point.

Even his advantages in the draft were tied to outspending and overspending other teams. 

I've always thought Friedman and Beane were better than Theo because they could do it on a budget.

That said, even with the advantages of overspending in the draft Theo was a great drafter of offensive talent. Him and his teams have excelled in identifying that talent.

[soxfan49]

What a douche