What about Collins?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

1. Anderson, SS
2. Moncada, 3B#
3. Castellanos, RF
4. Jimenez, LF
5. Grandal, C#
6. Abreu, 1B
7. Robert, CF
8. Collins*
9. Madrigal, 2B

That lineup wouldn’t work for you because of Collins as the DH?

Is our goal to actually win the Central or not? Because if it is, at least go add Encarnacion, or hell even at least Matt Adams or Hunter Pence or Adam Jones - at least someone who has hit big league pitching before. It will be way less money than we blew on LaRoche or Dunn, it'll be a 1 year deal, and I'm sure not convinced that Collins is ready to be a big league contributor yet - clearly the White Sox weren't either. If Collins takes the position, great, but if we're spending that much money on Grandal and others, I'm not ready to risk the division on whether Collins's bat is ready. At least give me options.

[ChiSoxJon]

9 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Lmao, huh? Mazara is complete shit.  If the Sox wanted him as a 4th OF fine, but there is no way he should be starting on this team.

Haniger and Benintendi are both good and still have upside.

Literally had the highest AVG of that trio last year...20 bombs consistently...Believe me, I've seen worse

[ChiSoxJon]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is our goal to actually win the Central or not? Because if it is, at least go add Encarnacion, or hell even at least Matt Adams or Hunter Pence or Adam Jones - at least someone who has hit big league pitching before. It will be way less money than we blew on LaRoche or Dunn, it'll be a 1 year deal, and I'm sure not convinced that Collins is ready to be a big league contributor yet - clearly the White Sox weren't either. If Collins takes the position, great, but if we're spending that much money on Grandal and others, I'm not ready to risk the division on whether Collins's bat is ready. At least give me options.

Adam Jones makes a lot of sense to man CF until Robert is here and then be a supersub, cheap too and short term

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is our goal to actually win the Central or not? Because if it is, at least go add Encarnacion, or hell even at least Matt Adams or Hunter Pence or Adam Jones - at least someone who has hit big league pitching before. It will be way less money than we blew on LaRoche or Dunn, it'll be a 1 year deal, and I'm sure not convinced that Collins is ready to be a big league contributor yet - clearly the White Sox weren't either. If Collins takes the position, great, but if we're spending that much money on Grandal and others, I'm not ready to risk the division on whether Collins's bat is ready. At least give me options.

Post adjustments, Collins put up a wRC+ of 130 against RHP.  While that’s a small sample and his BABIP was high, so was his BB rate (~17%) & ISO (.250).  He showed me enough to suggest he can be a useful platoon bat next year.  I’m willing to give him a couple months and see if that happens.  If not, I either give Mercedes a look or simply trade for a DH type.  The Yankees literally got EE for nothing but some money and we should be able to find someone to fill that role fairly cheaply if need be.

[poppysox]

48 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

That looks ideal. But I was looking at the wear and tear of catching.  Grandal breaks down most years so I think if he drops down from 130 to say 100 and is the DH for 30-40 that might be ideal for him and the team.  

Catchers wear down in a long season.  Let Grandal catch 70-80 games and DH 70 games or so.  McCann can catch 50 - 60 games and DH 50 or so.  Pick your spots with Collins at catcher/DH/ and backup catcher.  Well rested catchers is a luxury most teams don't have.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Catchers wear down in a long season.  Let Grandal catch 70-80 games and DH 70 games or so.  McCann can catch 50 - 60 games and DH 50 or so.  Pick your spots with Collins at catcher/DH/ and backup catcher.  Well rested catchers is a luxury most teams don't have.

Why are we so excited to see McCann at DH?  It’s more likely than not given his track record that his bat won’t be good enough to be a DH 1/3 of the games.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Why are we so excited to see McCann at DH?  It’s more likely than not given his track record that his bat won’t be good enough to be a DH 1/3 of the games.

He hits LHP pretty well, although I’d be using him at catcher on those days.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

20 hours ago, Chisox378 said:

In my opinion Collins needs over 500 plate appearances. McCann 500-550 and Grandal 600.

That doesn't leave many AB's for Abreu.  

[Chisox378]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Why are we so excited to see McCann at DH?  It’s more likely than not given his track record that his bat won’t be good enough to be a DH 1/3 of the games.

While McCann's k to bb rate is poor, he did bat .273, 18HR, 26 2B in only 476 plate appearances. He hit very well vs. LHP with a .295ba and .372obp.  

[Chisox378]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

That doesn't leave many AB's for Abreu.  

Your right, it looks like McCann may take a hit in plate appearances.  Although this stinks for him, since he had such a good year last year, Im sure he is the type of guy to sacrifice for the better of the team. Its good to have him on this team, seems like a really good clubhouse guy. 

[tray]

Collins is available in the trade market, especially as partial compensation for a pitcher or RFer (like Benintendi)

For example: the Red Sox are reportedly looking for a back-up catcher.

Christian Vazquez enjoyed a major breakout season at the plate for the Boston Red Sox in 2019. That’s fantastic because it was their biggest position of weakness in 2018. However, Boston still has a pretty serious problem. They have no backup.

[Chisox378]

Just now, tray said:

Collins is available in the trade market, especially as partial compensation for a pitcher or RFer (like Benintendi)

For example: the Red Sox are reportedly looking for a back-up catcher.

Christian Vazquez enjoyed a major breakout season at the plate for the Boston Red Sox in 2019. That’s fantastic because it was their biggest position of weakness in 2018. However, Boston still has a pretty serious problem. They have no backup.

No way would they deal Benintendi straight up for Collins. Prepare to deal more of our hot prospects. Benintendi would immediately become our best hitter with Eloy coming on strong.

[tray]

I said "partial"

[Chisox378]

1 minute ago, tray said:

I said "partial"

Sorry, I looked back and seen that. I need to read and understand before I respond. 

[fathom]

5 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

No way would they deal Benintendi straight up for Collins. Prepare to deal more of our hot prospects. Benintendi would immediately become our best hitter with Eloy coming on strong.

Crap, Yoan retired and no one told me

[bighurt574]

It's not hard to see Collins as a piece of a trade package for a RFer.  I have to think combining him with a Dunning or Stiever could net you someone pretty decent (while likely not Benintendi unless we take a bad contract back too).  

[Harold's Leg Lift]

12 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Your right, it looks like McCann may take a hit in plate appearances.  Although this stinks for him, since he had such a good year last year, Im sure he is the type of guy to sacrifice for the better of the team. Its good to have him on this team, seems like a really good clubhouse guy. 

I think McCann is going to play a lot.  Collins is the odd man out.  Ricky wouldn't play him last year in games that didn't matter so I can't imagine he's going to play him in games that do matter.  

[kitekrazy]

24 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Catchers wear down in a long season.  Let Grandal catch 70-80 games and DH 70 games or so.  McCann can catch 50 - 60 games and DH 50 or so.  Pick your spots with Collins at catcher/DH/ and backup catcher.  Well rested catchers is a luxury most teams don't have.

 It feels odd now that this team has a strength is at catcher.

[Chisox378]

2 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

It's not hard to see Collins as a piece of a trade package for a RFer.  I have to think combining him with a Dunning or Stiever could net you someone pretty decent (while likely not Benintendi unless we take a bad contract back too).  

If its not Benintendi, then Collins is a keeper.

[tray]

BoSox could also use a back-up at second base and we have a Gold Glover available.   I guess you can tell, I want Benintendi as our RF on Opening Day when I will be in the RF stands.

[Soxnfins]

2 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

It's not hard to see Collins as a piece of a trade package for a RFer.  I have to think combining him with a Dunning or Stiever could net you someone pretty decent (while likely not Benintendi unless we take a bad contract back too).  

This wouldn't shock me one bit.  Unless they sign Castellanos and they flip him for another starter, even if we sign Wheeler.  Can never have enough pitching.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

No way would they deal Benintendi straight up for Collins. Prepare to deal more of our hot prospects. Benintendi would immediately become our best hitter with Eloy coming on strong.

??????

WTF

Benetendi would have been the SIXTH best hitter on the White Sox last year.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[poppysox]

25 minutes ago, fathom said:

Crap, Yoan retired and no one told me

Had the same thought.?

[Chisox378]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

??????

WTF

Benetendi would have been the SIXTH best hitter on the White Sox last year.

There is more to judging hitting besides WAR. Watching the players at bats is worth alot. Even though Moncada had a better WAR he is not a better hitter than Benintendi. Benintendi had a down year last season. I predict Benintendi to be a borderline Hall of Famer when its all said and done.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Chisox378

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

There is more to judging hitting besides WAR. Watching the players at bats is worth alot. Even though Moncada had a better WAR he is not a better hitter than Benintendi. Benintendi had a down year last season. I predict Benintendi to be a borderline Hall of Famer when its all said and done.

WAR? I'm using wRC+.

Benetendi had a wRC+ of 100 last year - exactly league average.

Yoan, for example, had a 141 wRC+ - 41% better than league average (elite). 

James McCann had a highed wRC+ than Benetendi last year. My goodness. Eloy, Abreu, Timmy, and of course had much higher wRC+ last year.

Benetendi is a very average hitter, and he certainly would be no where near the best hitter on the White Sox. To even make an argument that he's a better hitter than Yoan Moncada is crazy.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run