Grandal - Early Off-Season Speculation

[steveno89]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Shouldn’t be AS big a concern with the smaller RF...that said, I don’t think anyone particularly enamored with Avi or Puig.  Ozuna definitely is out for RF, Castellanos has plenty of concerns (contract size, value at DH, defense), Gardner’s just a short term option...Mazara can barely get his fWAR over 1, no easy answers.

Reddick?  He really struggled last year, wonder what his splits are with the sign stealing fiasco...?

Back to trading for Polanco or Marte?  Nimmo, etc.

Seems this whole RF issue just goes around and around in circles with no easy answers considering it’s a corner spot.

Hence me warming to the idea of inking Calhoun for 1/8-10 million. He'll get the job done in RF and hit some dingers. 

[SoxBlanco]

29 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Shouldn’t be AS big a concern with the smaller RF...that said, I don’t think anyone particularly enamored with Avi or Puig.  Ozuna definitely is out for RF, Castellanos has plenty of concerns (contract size, value at DH, defense), Gardner’s just a short term option...Mazara can barely get his fWAR over 1, no easy answers.

Reddick?  He really struggled last year, wonder what his splits are with the sign stealing fiasco...?

Back to trading for Polanco or Marte?  Nimmo, etc.

Seems this whole RF issue just goes around and around in circles with no easy answers considering it’s a corner spot.

Agreed.  And that's why I think we should either go with a one year option (Calhoun or Dickerson), or take a shot with Castellanos (he can play RF for one year and then move to DH).

Whenever there are no obvious solutions, I think you need to just fix it for one year and try for something else next year.

[TheFutureIsNear]

For the record Calhoun was credited for 0 DRS last year...Castellanos was -9. Is that negligible? No. But does it make up for the potential 30 point difference in WRC+ between the 2? I don’t think so.

 

Obviously you can’t just ignore the $ difference between the 2 either, but there’s also the point of not having a stop gap and doing this whole process over again next year. 

[poppysox]

19 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

aFor the record Calhoun was credited for 0 DRS last year...Castellanos was -9. Is that negligible? No. But does it make up for the potential 30 point difference in WRC+ between the 2? I don’t think so.o

 

Obviously you can’t just ignore the $ difference between the 2 either, but there’s also the point of not having a stop gap and doing this whole process over again next year. 

It's all fluid.  If opportunity presents itself two sign Cole & Wheeler we might need a cheaper option in RF or DH.  We will need to see the whole offseason unfold before judging.

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

I honestly feel bad about this. I don't even want to tell you what's about to happen the next few months....

That's the point...neither of us know.

[hi8is]

10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's all fluid.  If opportunity presents itself two sign Cole & Wheeler we might need a cheaper option in RF or DH.  We will need to see the whole offseason unfold before judging.

Continued amusement.

[ChiSox59]

8 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So, let me get this straight:

Posters want to trade from a soon-to-be ~20th or so ranked system (once Robert/Madrigal arrive) for a platoon player w/1 year of control in Pederson,

Or

Buy high on a butcher in Castellanos whose improvement at the bat can largely be explained by the juiced ball in 2019. (See league average ops in 2019 vs 2018: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml )

 

Are these really the best solutions for RF at this point? 

I don't think Pederson would cost much, and yes I would perfer him to Castellanos who I hate as a fit unless the Sox go balls to the walls.  

But I'd love to hear your extensive list of options.  

[poppysox]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I don't think Pederson would cost much, and yes I would perfer him to Castellanos who I hate as a fit unless the Sox go balls to the walls.  

But I'd love to hear your extensive list of options.  

As you know...some posters like to knock others ideas without having any of their own.

[steveno89]

16 minutes ago, Tony said:

I know with 100% certainty both Cole and Wheeler will not be pitching on the South Side next year for the Sox. 100%

Sadly, it's 99% that Cole will not be pitching for the Sox next year. Wheeler remains a possibility, but I do not love our chances. 

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, Tony said:

That wasn't the scenario presented. He said BOTH Cole and Wheeler would be pitching for the Sox. 

His optimism knows no bounds!  A true company man! 

[SoxBlanco]

16 minutes ago, Tony said:

That wasn't the scenario presented. He said BOTH Cole and Wheeler would be pitching for the Sox. 

I just drew a Venn diagram with one circle representing us signing Cole and the other circle representing us signing Wheeler. This is what it looks like...

O O

[Jake]

I honestly don't think it makes sense for the Sox to sign two starters to multi-year deals. You could justify a major signing like Wheeler and then someone like Gio Gonzalez on a 1-year. Also, isn't this thread about Grandal?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think Dickerson is a viable RF.

Sure can't be any worse than Palka. He won a Gold Glove in LF in 2018 so I'm sure he would do fine for a year. I think he'd become a very popular player here if he stayed healthy. .300 hitter, 20-25 bombs ,actual real production from a LH free agent. How often have the Sox seen that ?

[Lillian]

Dickerson's defense would be fine, except for his arm. He's fine in LF, but many are very dubious of his ability to play RF.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

Haha. I like Poppy too, my point was he's going to be tremendously disappointed if those are his true expectations. 

Thank you...I like you too.  My point was not that I think we are getting both Cole & Wheeler.  I was referring to the fluid nature of this offseason.  If someone becomes available unexpectedly like Mike Trout we may need to take away resources from other areas.  No... I don't expect that to happen nor do I really expect the Cole/Wheeler deals to both happen.  Just try to hope the stars align and we get some pleasant surprises.  I get it...some of you think nothing good can happen until JR is gone.  I choose to disagree.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/15/2019 at 3:35 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think Dickerson is a viable RF.

I think he's the most likely guy to put up an .850 OPS if healthy  ,other than maybe Castellanos .

Edited November 17, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dam8610]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:05 AM, caulfield12 said:

Shouldn’t be AS big a concern with the smaller RF...that said, I don’t think anyone particularly enamored with Avi or Puig.  Ozuna definitely is out for RF, Castellanos has plenty of concerns (contract size, value at DH, defense), Gardner’s just a short term option...Mazara can barely get his fWAR over 1, no easy answers.

Reddick?  He really struggled last year, wonder what his splits are with the sign stealing fiasco...?

Back to trading for Polanco or Marte?  Nimmo, etc.

Seems this whole RF issue just goes around and around in circles with no easy answers considering it’s a corner spot.

Puig as a stopgap to Betts intrigues me. Of course, that means they'd have to get Betts.

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Puig as a stopgap to Betts intrigues me. Of course, that means they'd have to get Betts.

At least Puig is a right fielder.  All this Puig isn't nice talk doesn't scare me.  They said the same about AJ and he was a big part of 05.  With our Cuban connection I feel he would be kept in line if that's the way we go.  Put it this way...we could do a lot worse.

 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:40 AM, ChiSox59 said:

I don't think Pederson would cost much, and yes I would perfer him to Castellanos who I hate as a fit unless the Sox go balls to the walls.  

But I'd love to hear your extensive list of options.  

I've posted this before in other thread during this offseason.

I'd look for a bridge signing to a future solution, or an affordable gamble, while preserving as much money as possible for this relatively deep pitching FA class. I believe it is ESSENTIAL that this team acquire one of the top 4 SP FA. 

I would also avoid making stupid trades for mere incremental improvement; that's what I saw in the moronic Samardzjia and Shields trades. IMO, that's exactly what a trade for a platoon player in Pederson would be, or a gamble on a one-year wonder like Nimmo.

I would preserve as much trade capital as possible for the inevitable fire sales that other teams will have every year. (The last time the Sox did this was Robin's first year as manager; the FO picked up Youkilis and others for the playoff chase for cheap prices.)

That said, my previous post was trying to get someone to convince me that trading from a soon-to-be empty farm system was a better idea than the moronic Samardzija and Shields trades. Or, that having two shitty OFers in the field, while overspending/buying high on a statue was a good idea. So far, no one has come up with cogent support for either of these ideas, IMO.

 

So, when none of the solutions that are available are ideal, you buy a cheap one. Especially if your budget is in any way limited. To my view, that means either of Avi or Puig; I'd prefer Puig.

 

[SCCWS]

10 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Puig as a stopgap to Betts intrigues me. Of course, that means they'd have to get Betts.

But that is a real longshot. Hahn has to get the best RF that the budget will allow. If Betts becomes a FA and JR is willing to go around $35 Mil after what they already add in FA adds this season, you can always trade whoever you sign this year. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I've posted this before in other thread during this offseason.

I'd look for a bridge signing to a future solution, or an affordable gamble, while preserving as much money as possible for this relatively deep pitching FA class. I believe it is ESSENTIAL that this team acquire one of the top 4 SP FA. 

I would also avoid making stupid trades for mere incremental improvement; that's what I saw in the moronic Samardzjia and Shields trades. IMO, that's exactly what a trade for a platoon player in Pederson would be, or a gamble on a one-year wonder like Nimmo.

I would preserve as much trade capital as possible for the inevitable fire sales that other teams will have every year. (The last time the Sox did this was Robin's first year as manager; the FO picked up Youkilis and others for the playoff chase for cheap prices.)

That said, my previous post was trying to get someone to convince me that trading from a soon-to-be empty farm system was a better idea than the moronic Samardzija and Shields trades. Or, that having two shitty OFers in the field, while overspending/buying high on a statue was a good idea. So far, no one has come up with cogent support for either of these ideas, IMO.

 

So, when none of the solutions that are available are ideal, you buy a cheap one. Especially if your budget is in any way limited. To my view, that means either of Avi or Puig; I'd prefer Puig.

 

We're actually in lockstep here except Avi will be cheaper than Puig, plus i like him better but I like Dickerson better than them both.

I wouldn't call Nimmo a 1 year wonder either . The one good year he had was 2018 , the only season he had over 500 PA . 2019 injured so only 254 PA but OBP was .375 and he actually can field well . 2017 started in the minors played in 69 games total but also had a partially collapsed lung. When he came back Mets hitting coaches suggested he make changes by not striding and instead turning his front foot which opened his hip and started slugging higher which was a precursor to the  4 WAR 2018 season.

[steveno89]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/phillies-discussing-extension-with-j-t-realmuto.html

For anyone saying "just sign Realmuto next offseason"

I think Wheeler and Grandal should be top priorities for the Sox to ink. You never know which players will reach free agency down the line, and Grandal has no compensation attached. McCann is not the long term starting answer, best to correct that now with a high quality veteran. 

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, steveno89 said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/phillies-discussing-extension-with-j-t-realmuto.html

For anyone saying "just sign Realmuto next offseason"

I think Wheeler and Grandal should be top priorities for the Sox to ink. You never know which players will reach free agency down the line, and Grandal has no compensation attached. McCann is not the long term starting answer, best to correct that now with a high quality veteran. 

I agree with you.  Upgrades catching overall while filling DH.  Cost effective way to kill two birds with one stone.

[pcq]

Grandal would be nice but Zack could spell McCann with Sebz in reserve. What are the odds of the Sox outbidding several other teams. More likely we sign the lesser choices. 

[ChiSox59]

21 minutes ago, pcq said:

Grandal would be nice but Zack could spell McCann with Sebz in reserve. What are the odds of the Sox outbidding several other teams. More likely we sign the lesser choices. 

They’re going to have to spend some real money on someone. Wheeler and/or Grandal are the ones that make the most sense.