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Sox in on Marcell Ozuna? I mean, maybe. Or not.


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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:40 PM, SoxAce said:

Look at his second half numbers... he definitely figured something out. Plus I think now he'll be even better with the Astros stuff coming out. You can tell that World Series was in his head for quite some time. Only thing that can stop Darvish potentially is injuries. 

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I understand he was very good 2nd half.  However, this guy and injuries seem to go hand in hand  

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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:40 PM, SoxAce said:

Look at his second half numbers... he definitely figured something out. Plus I think now he'll be even better with the Astros stuff coming out. You can tell that World Series was in his head for quite some time. Only thing that can stop Darvish potentially is injuries. 

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He's 33 years old, and has repeatedly been injured almost every year of his career. He'll be 34 next season, and his signed through his age 37 season.

If he was a FA, he would command no where near 4/81 million; hence why he didn't opt out.

I don't think he suddenly figured something out at 33 - he's always been dominant K-wise when he's on the mound. His problem has always been command and consistency; he had a real nice second half, but I don't think he suddenly became a .77 BB/9 guy with an adjustment at 33 years old but who knows?

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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:47 PM, SonofaRoache said:

The point is if the Sox don't bid on Cole and were willing to give him 280. You would then take that money and give it to the other 2. 

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Got it.

The sox are so scared of agents it's really quite something. They seem to take it personally when players negotiate with them after they think they've given a fair offer.

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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:50 PM, bmags said:

Got it.

The sox are so scared of agents it's really quite something. They seem to take it personally when players negotiate with them after they think they've given a fair offer.

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I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:52 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

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The White Sox FO characters are incredibly incensed by being called cheap or midmarket or second tier (see Kenny's rants last offseason). Even when they're being cheap and refusing to bid on top guys because they're cheap, they're willing to go to the press and say "We could do this we just don't want to!" because they know they have apologists who will take that and say "See, they're not cheap, they could have been in on Cole if they wanted". 

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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:50 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He's 33 years old, and has repeatedly been injured almost every year of his career. He'll be 34 next season, and his signed through his age 37 season.

If he was a FA, he would command no where near 4/81 million; hence why he didn't opt out.

I don't think he suddenly figured something out at 33 - he's always been dominant K-wise when he's on the mound. His problem has always been command and consistency; he had a real nice second half, but I don't think he suddenly became a .77 BB/9 guy with an adjustment at 33 years old but who knows?

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I already acknowledged the injury concerns. I think his main problem was all mental personally. Dude is/was just a mental midget IMO. I don't think he'll be as outstanding as his second half numbers either but he won't be as bad as his first half either, so somewhere in the middle. Darvish still has elite spin rate numbers, his velocity numbers are still there and his hard hit numbers are okay (you could argue he should probably use his four seamer more). This isn't even accounting for the Cubs potentially taking on some money (won't be much obviously) just to get rid of a contract and they need to get rid of quite a few. Again the injury concerns are justified, but you could certainly do worse. Btw, I'm not acknowledging that I want Darvish here FYI.

Edited by SoxAce
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  On 12/9/2019 at 3:52 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

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I'm pretty sure no other good front office in the league would let that affect them not trying to sign a player they want and apparently could make budget for but are scared they'll be negotiated with.

 

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  On 12/9/2019 at 4:06 PM, SoxAce said:

I already acknowledged the injury concerns. I think his main problem was all mental personally. Dude is/was just a mental midget IMO. I don't think he'll be as outstanding as his second half numbers either but he won't be as bad as his first half either, so somewhere in the middle. Darvish still has elite spin rate numbers, his velocity numbers are still there and his hard hit numbers are okay (you could argue he should probably use his four seamer more). This isn't even accounting for the Cubs potentially taking on some money (won't be much obviously) just to get rid of a contract and they need to get rid of quite a few. Again the injury concerns are justified, but you could certainly do worse. Btw, I'm not acknowledging that I want Darvish here FYI.

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I get it, but he's always had those elite numbers. He is the greatest strike out pitcher, by rate, in MLB history. There's no doubt that his stuff can dominate people. I think this trading for Darvish for his age 34-37 seasons isn't exactly a great gamble given all his red flags. I thought it was a risky overpay by the Cubs at the time, and it has become that which is why they're in this position. I'm not sure the White Sox can just take on 81 million in dead money; might as well sign Ryu if you want an aging hurler with injury concerns.

I like Darvish, I just don't think I like him for the tail end of his career. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will learn to pitch as his stuff continues to deteriorate. 

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  On 12/9/2019 at 4:06 PM, bmags said:

I'm pretty sure no other good front office in the league would let that affect them not trying to sign a player they want and apparently could make budget for but are scared they'll be negotiated with.

 

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If the White Sox feel there's next to zero chance Cole will come here without a significant overpay from the White Sox then why waste your time? Cole is already going to be "overpaid" in regards to expected salary because of the teams bidding but if you knew you had to overpay that overpay significantly to lure him from the West Coast or the Yankees then why waste your time in the market?

I don't think the Sox would sign him from 7/280 tomorrow - I don't agree with Rosenthal but he surely knows far more than me - but if they would and they don't think Cole would sign for that from the Sox then what's the point?

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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  On 12/9/2019 at 4:11 PM, Moan4Yoan said:
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Yeah, seems incredibly risky for Boras to wait out the Cubs with a market that could close up really quickly if the other suitors go in a different direction.

I am a fan of waiting the Ozuna/Castellanos markets out until the end, and signing whichever one is stuck out there late in the off-season hoping for a decent deal. I don't think the Sox will do that, and maybe they already got one to agree at a level they wanted.

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  On 12/9/2019 at 4:13 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, seems incredibly risky for Boras to wait out the Cubs with a market that could close up really quickly if the other suitors go in a different direction.

I am a fan of waiting the Ozuna/Castellanos markets out until the end, and signing whichever one is stuck out there late in the off-season hoping for a decent deal. I don't think the Sox will do that, and maybe they already got one to agree at a level they wanted.

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Yeah both of those players I could see becoming the Keuchel of 2018 offseason.

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