JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Better spent on a single Manny Machado last winter or Grandal, Abreu, + Wheeler this winter? Fans still upset they missed on Machado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Very pissed off they missed out on Machado. It isn't fair to make this a Machado vs. Abreu/Grandal / Wheeler situation as they SHOULD have enough cap room to get ALL of that. They SHOULD have enough room to get Harper AND Machado. This is a false dichotomy IMO. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Abreu's extension was awful. So no, not better spent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Considering their biggest "need" is a RF with good plate discipline skills, I think missing out on Harper (not that they were ever seemingly seriously interested) is a much bigger regret than Machado. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said: Abreu's extension was awful. So no, not better spent. This. And did we sign Wheeler that I don't know about? Let's revisit this when/if that happens. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, SoxAce said: This. And did we sign Wheeler that I don't know about? Let's revisit this when/if that happens. Yup, this thread is way too premature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Abreu's extension was awful. So no, not better spent. Well, so was Machado’s deal so there’s that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 39 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said: Very pissed off they missed out on Machado. It isn't fair to make this a Machado vs. Abreu/Grandal / Wheeler situation as they SHOULD have enough cap room to get ALL of that. They SHOULD have enough room to get Harper AND Machado. This is a false dichotomy IMO. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Jerry’s boys said the money would be spent and that appears to be happening; however, I don’t believe they would have been this aggressive in free agency if they still had Manny on the books for another 7-9 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 37 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: Considering their biggest "need" is a RF with good plate discipline skills, I think missing out on Harper (not that they were ever seemingly seriously interested) is a much bigger regret than Machado. I agree but still is Harper > Grandal + Abreu + Wheeler. I’m not even a huge fan of Grandal but I don’t think Harper is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Well, so was Machado’s deal so there’s that. You’re drawing insane conclusions based off one year of a 10 year deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re drawing insane conclusions based off one year of a 10 year deal. Nah, insane is giving Machado $300M... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Sure, we can play this game when/if the White Sox make the playoffs 2 out of 3 years or win another World Series. We haven’t even signed a top pitching target yet, the biggest need that can most easily be addressed for just money. Looking back at 2004-05, it was later obvious that jettisoning Ordonez, Lee and Valentin allowed us to allocate the money more efficiently across eight veteran players...and discovering Jenks helped a lot, certainly. Or we can just as easily debate Cole >>> Wheeler/Grandal/Abreu, right? Most are, at best, neutral on Abreu and we overpaid Grandal one year and about $18 million over what would have been ideal...granted, that’s the opportunity cost of shopping among the Top 10-12 Free Agents, right? At any rate, way way too early to be celebrating anything. This sounds like a thread from the year we signed Cabrera/Robertson/LaRoche...Dunn...or brought in Javy/Thome to reinforce the best team in baseball. We still have lots of uncertainty/volatility across the entire pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Nah, insane is giving Machado $300M... Insanity is 11 years without a playoff appearance as the only large market team in a division filled with 4 of the 8 lowest local tv broadcast rights deals in all of MLB...and operating like a “beg packer” in Thailand instead of a Top 10-12 franchise in terms of Forbes valuation. At one point we were 8th. Now we are all the way down to #13-14-15 because of JR/KW/Hahn...so the question remains, do we really want to win it all or just put the team in a position to be contending and make more moves in June/July? Even that strategy is dubious when you need to run $160+ million payrolls to get to the ALCS/NLCS. Edited November 24, 2019 by caulfield12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Sure, we can play this game when/if the White Sox make the playoffs 2 out of 3 years or win another World Series. We haven’t even signed a top pitching target yet, the biggest need that can most easily be addressed for just money. Looking back at 2004-05, it was later obvious that jettisoning Ordonez, Lee and Valentin allowed us to allocate the money more efficiently across eight veteran players...and discovering Jenks helped a lot, certainly. Or we can just as easily debate Cole >>> Wheeler/Grandal/Abreu, right? Most are, at best, neutral on Abreu and we overpaid Grandal one year and about $18 million over what would have been ideal...granted, that’s the opportunity cost of shopping among the Top 10-12 Free Agents, right? At any rate, way way too early to be celebrating anything. This sounds like a thread from the year we signed Cabrera/Robertson/LaRoche...Dunn...or brought in Javy/Thome to reinforce the best team in baseball. We still have lots of uncertainty/volatility across the entire pitching staff. I am assuming they sign a high end starting pitcher, which I think is very likely given how this offseason has started. Again, I’m not a huge fan of Grandal but he was a tier (or two) above Cabrera and LaRoche. Abreu is more in line with those two. And a high end starting pitcher > Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Insanity is 11 years without a playoff appearance as the only large market team in a division filled with 4 of the 8 lowest local tv broadcast rights deals in all of MLB...and operating like a “beg packer” in Thailand instead of a Top 10-12 franchise in terms of Forbes valuation. At one point we were 8th. Now we are all the way down to #13-14-15 because of JR/KW/Hahn...so the question remains, do we really want to win it all or just put the team in a position to be contending and make more moves in June/July? Even that strategy is dubious when you need to run $160+ million payrolls to get to the ALCS/NLCS. And the future is so bright, in part due to the reasons you mention above. No reason this team can’t be a perennial division contender or favorite over the next 4-6 years. Get in and anything can happen from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Better spent on a single Manny Machado last winter or Grandal, Abreu, + Wheeler this winter? Fans still upset they missed on Machado? Did you get the idea for this thread from this tweet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 That number for Wheeler is two years and $52 million more than the initial projections... Someone got cute and wanted to figure out how to come up with a salary figure higher than Machado’s $250 million. Of course, it should actually be $17.8 + $74 + $100-105 million. That gets you to $191-196 million, not exactly $256. All told, we gave an extra 1 year/$14 million to Grandal and 2 years/$32 million to Abreu already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Better spent on a single Manny Machado last winter or Grandal, Abreu, + Wheeler this winter? Fans still upset they missed on Machado? That's not how it works. Grandal and Abreu are already 35+ mil per year, which is beyond what Machado makes. It's about dollars per season, not total dollars for the life of the contracts. Your post is spinning numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 8 hours ago, SoxBlanco said: Did you get the idea for this thread from this tweet? No. I’m not on Twitter. After the first two signings and being the rumored leader on Wheeler, it’s the first question that came to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Sarava said: That's not how it works. Grandal and Abreu are already 35+ mil per year, which is beyond what Machado makes. It's about dollars per season, not total dollars for the life of the contracts. Your post is spinning numbers. Sox said the money will be spent. They didn’t say how or over a certain number of years, just that the $250M would be spent. Looks like they’re on track to do that this winter alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sox said the money will be spent. They didn’t say how or over a certain number of years, just that the $250M would be spent. Looks like they’re on track to do that this winter alone. If you are factoring the Abreu or even Jimenez contract into the equation you are messing with the numbers just to say they got to 250. It’s deceiving on the fact they were under club control and if you had landed Machado you certainly would spend more money to keep Abreu around. So in my eyes that 50 million or whatever you want to classify it as does not count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said: If you are factoring the Abreu or even Jimenez contract into the equation you are messing with the numbers just to say they got to 250. It’s deceiving on the fact they were under club control and if you had landed Machado you certainly would spend more money to keep Abreu around. So in my eyes that 50 million or whatever you want to classify it as does not count. Eloy and Abreu are different cases. One they had control of for years without an extension. The other they could have let walk this winter. Edited November 24, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Eloy and Abreu are different cases. One they had control of for years without an extension. The other they could have let walk this winter. And last offseason had they signed Machado do you really think they would have just let Abreu walk? Highly unlikely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, HahnsKiddieTable said: And last offseason had they signed Machado do you really think they would have just let Abreu walk? Highly unlikely It’s a fair question. I’m not sure they extend Eloy or give Jose 3/50 if they had signed Machado. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Absolutely zero chance they would have let Abreu walk not when that’s a signal it’s time to contend. Jimenez they would have tried extending just because that’s the whitesox way and what they have him being paid will be bargain dumpster shopping here in a season or so. I’m not going to give this front office the benefit of the doubt you have to do more than extending Abreu and signing grandal to say the money was spent, because imo the moment you spend 250 mil you are going to spend more to make the team a contender. 250 mil and so far the only thing that has come back in new money is the 74 mil to Grandal. There is much more to be spent in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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