$250M to burn

[centerfieldsixers]

how do you know this?

[ChiSoxJon]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s so funny? 6/132 likely would have gotten it done. Unfortunately, 5/120-125 did not...

Get it done? Yes

Backfire on us tremendously and strap us down long term? Yes

Thank God he went elsewhere

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s so funny? 6/132 likely would have gotten it done. Unfortunately, 5/120-125 did not...

Say's who?

They offered 5/125, how the heck is 6/132 a better deal?

He didn't take the 7 million extra from the Sox; I don't think another 7 million is a game changer here; especially with another year attached.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[he gone.]

Agreed. The unfortunate part of message boards is generally there is no accountability on dumb posts. People say outlandish our outspoken comments and then they get washed away into an abyss of other comments and takes. People change their minds constantly and never get held accountable. A month ago if there was a poll the majority of the board would have probably said their tipping point was like $110mm on a 5 year deal. Me personally? I would've like a 5/90 day, been okay with 5/100 and been meh on a 5/110 deal. 5/120 though. Pass. 

 

But the Sox lose out on signing him and the whole board starts freaking out. Just like Machado.  Ask who would take 9/270 of machado now after moncadas year? Hell we were freaking out when Arenado signed. Now you barely hear a peep about people pining for Rendon. If you were one of the people going apesh*t on Machado situation then you should be going all out on Rendon. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Agreed. The unfortunate part of message boards is generally there is no accountability on dumb posts. People say outlandish our outspoken comments and then they get washed away into an abyss of other comments and takes. People change their minds constantly and never get held accountable. A month ago if there was a poll the majority of the board would have probably said their tipping point was like $110mm on a 5 year deal. Me personally? I would've like a 5/90 day, been okay with 5/100 and been meh on a 5/110 deal. 5/120 though. Pass. 

 

But the Sox lose out on signing him and the whole board starts freaking out. Just like Machado.  Ask who would take 9/270 of machado now after moncadas year? Hell we were freaking out when Arenado signed. Now you barely hear a peep about people pining for Rendon. If you were one of the people going apesh*t on Machado situation then you should be going all out on Rendon. 

I thought he'd get 5/125 so I was ready to spend that much, but I also understand that is more than Wheeler is worth at this point in time; I just simply think Wheeler is going to take off in the next 2-3 years and propel himself into the upper echelon of starters... but I've felt that way about plenty of players in my life who fell flat on their face, or simply didn't improve.

Typically, 29 year olds in baseball do not get better; Wheeler has to skirt that to succeed. Paying for future production should be what free agency is all about, but paying in hopes that a 29 year old develops and improves is of course riskier than doing such for a 24 or 25 year old. Wheeler's projections aren't really rosey, but I just think the public projections are wrong on him. I believe he projects worse than most every starter none of Soxtalks want.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Say's who?

They offered 5/125, how the heck is 6/132 a better deal?

He didn't take the 7 million extra from the Sox; I don't think another 7 million is a game changer here; especially with another year attached.

Neither of us know for certain but the point is people were laughing at the idea of 6/132. “No way he’ll get that.” Whelp

[mqr]

28 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Agreed. The unfortunate part of message boards is generally there is no accountability on dumb posts. People say outlandish our outspoken comments and then they get washed away into an abyss of other comments and takes. People change their minds constantly and never get held accountable. A month ago if there was a poll the majority of the board would have probably said their tipping point was like $110mm on a 5 year deal. Me personally? I would've like a 5/90 day, been okay with 5/100 and been meh on a 5/110 deal. 5/120 though. Pass. 

  

But the Sox lose out on signing him and the whole board starts freaking out. Just like Machado.  Ask who would take 9/270 of machado now after moncadas year? Hell we were freaking out when Arenado signed. Now you barely hear a peep about people pining for Rendon. If you were one of the people going apesh*t on Machado situation then you should be going all out on Rendon. 

What's bothering me is that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between a home run and a disaster off season. Last year was definitely an unmitigated disaster. But I find any offseason that includes Yaz can't be a bad one, and there's still going to be moves made. 

[centerfieldsixers]

37 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Agreed. The unfortunate part of message boards is generally there is no accountability on dumb posts. People say outlandish our outspoken comments and then they get washed away into an abyss of other comments and takes. People change their minds constantly and never get held accountable. A month ago if there was a poll the majority of the board would have probably said their tipping point was like $110mm on a 5 year deal. Me personally? I would've like a 5/90 day, been okay with 5/100 and been meh on a 5/110 deal. 5/120 though. Pass. 

 

But the Sox lose out on signing him and the whole board starts freaking out. Just like Machado.  Ask who would take 9/270 of machado now after moncadas year? Hell we were freaking out when Arenado signed. Now you barely hear a peep about people pining for Rendon. If you were one of the people going apesh*t on Machado situation then you should be going all out on Rendon. 

Completely agree.  well said.. some people act like a Gm job is just so easy to do.. why can't you trade Covey for Sherzer?  i come here for some people's views  but turned off by the sky is falling reactions

[knightni]

On 11/23/2019 at 9:37 PM, iWiN4PreP said:

Very pissed off they missed out on Machado.

What's interesting is that Moncada out-performed him offensively last season.

[centerfieldsixers]

2 minutes ago, knightni said:

What's interesting is that Moncada out-performed him offensively last season.

sometimes the moves you don't make are the best ones.  Remember last year at this time people calling Moncada a bust???

[Cashman]

15 minutes ago, knightni said:

What's interesting is that Moncada out-performed him offensively last season.

If they signed  him, Moncada would not of been on the bench. Yolmer would have. So the comparison is Machado vs Yolmer.

[Jose Abreu]

12 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said:

sometimes the moves you don't make are the best ones.  Remember last year at this time people calling Moncada a bust???

To be fair, those people never should have been taken seriously in the first place. He was a 2 WAR player in 2018 and had a pretty average year overall. 

[Orlando]

27 minutes ago, mqr said:

What's bothering me is that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between a home run and a disaster off season. Last year was definitely an unmitigated disaster. But I find any offseason that includes Yaz can't be a bad one, and there's still going to be moves made. 

This

[steveno89]

29 minutes ago, mqr said:

What's bothering me is that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between a home run and a disaster off season. Last year was definitely an unmitigated disaster. But I find any offseason that includes Yaz can't be a bad one, and there's still going to be moves made. 

I think it has to due with how terrible last offseason was. The pressure is certainly turned up for the Sox to improve the team, because it cannot all happen in the 2021 offseason. 

We need 3-4 multi year quality pieces to build with, and Grandal checks one box there.

[MeanJoeCrede]

29 minutes ago, mqr said:

What's bothering me is that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between a home run and a disaster off season. Last year was definitely an unmitigated disaster. But I find any offseason that includes Yaz can't be a bad one, and there's still going to be moves made. 

That's only because of our raised expectations when it looked like we might get Wheeler. We all suddenly saw a way where THIS year could actually have a path to the postseason. With what's left of the pitching market, it's much easier to return to thinking that this year we take steps toward contention and genuinely compete for the Central in 2021.

[mqr]

22 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I think it has to due with how terrible last offseason was. The pressure is certainly turned up for the Sox to improve the team, because it cannot all happen in the 2021 offseason. 

We need 3-4 multi year quality pieces to build with, and Grandal checks one box there.

I mean yeah the pressure is on, but that comes with trying to be a competitive baseball team. Doesn't mean not converting on 100% of targets is an failure of epic proportions. If missing Machado didn't sink this thing (it didn't), I really don't think Wheeler will. 

The Wheeler reaction has been 90% Machado PTSD. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by mqr

[Superstar Lamar]

It's inconsistent to complain about people's overreactions but also use Machado's worst season as indicative of a bad contract.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

40 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

That's only because of our raised expectations when it looked like we might get Wheeler. We all suddenly saw a way where THIS year could actually have a path to the postseason. With what's left of the pitching market, it's much easier to return to thinking that this year we take steps toward contention and genuinely compete for the Central in 2021.

Man, sox fans really think the drop off from wheeler to bum/ryu is much more than it actually is

[iWiN4PreP]

3 hours ago, knightni said:

What's interesting is that Moncada out-performed him offensively last season.

This isn't a moncada vs. Machado discussion, and I'm not (nor should you) be convinced that one soft season of Machado is going to be his future projection. Machado is definitely a strong bounce back candidate. (p.s. his defense is pretty damn amazing). 

 

[he gone.]

So much changes year to year. Last year there was a contingent of Daniel Palka backers. Like serious that they thought he was going to be a future DH on a playoff Sox roster. 

Last offseason there were also people done with Giolito and Moncada. One year changes a lot and to me, we don't need to be freaking out about Zach Wheeler. This team has a lot of internal questions to answer between all of their young rookies and minor league talent. There's a very little chance that Vaughn, Robert, Madrigal, Kopech and Cease all turn into all-stars.. it's actually much more likely things like what happened to Jake Burger happen to one of those guys. Some people will fizzle, others will have freak injuries, others will have a lost season due to injury, etc. 2020 isn't our year anyways, so IMO i'd rather just wait on the spending and apply it when we know what we actually need to take the step from a 90 win team to WS favorites, not a 70something win team to an 85 win team.

[GradMc]

On 11/23/2019 at 9:36 PM, caulfield12 said:

Sure, we can play this game when/if the White Sox make the playoffs 2 out of 3 years or win another World Series.

We haven’t even signed a top pitching target yet, the biggest need that can most easily be addressed for just money.

Looking back at 2004-05, it was later obvious that jettisoning Ordonez, Lee and Valentin allowed us to allocate the money more efficiently across eight veteran players...and discovering Jenks helped a lot, certainly.

 

Or we can just as easily debate Cole >>> Wheeler/Grandal/Abreu, right?

Most are, at best, neutral on Abreu and we overpaid Grandal one year and about $18 million over what would have been ideal...granted, that’s the opportunity cost of shopping among the Top 10-12 Free Agents, right?

At any rate, way way too early to be celebrating anything.

This sounds like a thread from the year we signed Cabrera/Robertson/LaRoche...Dunn...or brought in Javy/Thome to reinforce the best team in baseball.

We still have lots of uncertainty/volatility across the entire pitching staff.

 

The 2005 White Sox had a collective career year with an under-budget team which was the only way they were (likely are) winning a championship with this non-sportsman mentality ownership group.

As of today, only one from the 2005 team made it to the HOF - and he sadly didn't even get a chance to play.

2005 was a pivotal year for the Reinsdorf group.

They were either going to take next step towards becoming a major market powerhouse or be satisfied with being a one-hit  wonder.

Unfortunately, with near 3 million attendance virtually guaranteed, they gave us the Brian Anderson Experience and told the base to eat cheese.

And save game 163 of 2008, they have yet to recover.

 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

For those keeping tabs at home:

Grandal + Abreu + Keuchel + Gonzalez =  $183M (excluding options/incentives for simplicity) 

Added ~$55M to 2020 payroll -> projected 10.1 fWAR in 2020 per steamer ($5.45M/fWAR)

Machado $30M in 2020 -> projected 4.6 fWAR in 2020 per steamer ($6.52M/fWAR)

This is why signing Machado never made sense. And the impact of multiple signings to fill multiple glaring holes only makes the argument stronger if you were to do a comparison versus the cheaper backup alternative (e.g., Keuchel vs Covey, Grandal vs McCann, etc). Still another ~$70M to burn so now go out and get an established DH and RP to finish this thing off.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 11/24/2019 at 8:55 AM, Eminor3rd said:

“This aggressive”? They’ve signed one guy. 

3 if you aren’t including Abreu and they’re not done yet

[Eminor3rd]

32 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

3 if you aren’t including Abreu and they’re not done yet

That post was made a month ago lol

[iamshack]

http://www.soxon35th.com/dont-stop-now-boys/