Successful Plan B; What’s Next?

[bmags]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

When this first started, there was a bunch of 2019 is when the window will open posts.

that's definitely what I thought.

[Chisoxfn]

9 minutes ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

Biggest back tracking organization I’ve ever witnessed. Incredible. 

Or they are making sure they make public statements that don't paint them in a corner from a trade front, etc.  The urgency fans have isn't / shouldn't be the same urgency a front office operates in.  While missing on targets can hurt (and none of us know who those targets were, outside of Wheeler...so we don't know that we missed out on these other guys), going crazy and putting this organization in a tough spot in the near/long-term by filling the roster with bad contracts, doesn't help either.  

My personal opinion (and I said it last year) was that the Sox are never going to become an elite team because of free agency and if I were them, I would try to swing aggressive where they can, but when the big boys play, don't assume you can beat them at the cash-spend game (and yes some smaller market teams have done it - but i'd argue they rarely win), instead be opportunistic on players who the market maybe isn't as active for and use your money / flexibility in the trade market (taking on guys who have market dollar deals from teams looking to shed said player).  Yes, you pay a bit of a premium cause you give up something, but maintaining your long-term financial flexibility is huge.  I will not pretend that the Sox are going to operate like a large market team, because they don't generate the revenue of a large market team, so what they need to do is be smart, nimble, develop their talent and than aggressively win on the trade front (including using their cash to get guys who can and will be long-term pieces).

My fear has always been this organization has NOT shown an ability / proven track record at developing players and/or being creative & aggressive on the international front (albeit, Robert was a nice aggressive play and they have done a nice job on Cuban free agents (Abreu / Alexei). The one thing I've always applauded Kenny for is, when it came to the trade market, he was always able to play with the big boys (and I think that skill can bode well for them...especially given how "overvalued", in my opinion, prospects are in this era).  

[Lightning]

These moves they may make are likely trades which will deplete the minor leagues. The Sox just don’t seem like they are serious to win. Maybe they think getting to .500 is acceptable because they have been bad so long. Jerry is probably making good money off the revenue sharing, so why win?

I found this :

In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated. As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams alsoreceive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Or they are making sure they make public statements that don't paint them in a corner from a trade front, etc.  The urgency fans have isn't / shouldn't be the same urgency a front office operates in.  While missing on targets can hurt (and none of us know who those targets were, outside of Wheeler...so we don't know that we missed out on these other guys), going crazy and putting this organization in a tough spot in the near/long-term by filling the roster with bad contracts, doesn't help either.  

My personal opinion (and I said it last year) was that the Sox are never going to become an elite team because of free agency and if I were them, I would try to swing aggressive where they can, but when the big boys play, don't assume you can beat them at the cash-spend game (and yes some smaller market teams have done it - but i'd argue they rarely win), instead be opportunistic on players who the market maybe isn't as active for and use your money / flexibility in the trade market (taking on guys who have market dollar deals from teams looking to shed said player).  Yes, you pay a bit of a premium cause you give up something, but maintaining your long-term financial flexibility is huge.  I will not pretend that the Sox are going to operate like a large market team, because they don't generate the revenue of a large market team, so what they need to do is be smart, nimble, develop their talent and than aggressively win on the trade front (including using their cash to get guys who can and will be long-term pieces).

My fear has always been this organization has NOT shown an ability / proven track record at developing players and/or being creative & aggressive on the international front (albeit, Robert was a nice aggressive play and they have done a nice job on Cuban free agents (Abreu / Alexei). The one thing I've always applauded Kenny for is, when it came to the trade market, he was always able to play with the big boys (and I think that skill can bode well for them...especially given how "overvalued", in my opinion, prospects are in this era).  

I agree with that. I just don’t want to hear them speak about being aggressive and then not land their guys. Be a closer Hahn. You’re paid to get it right. I don’t need them to be the Phillies, but I don’t want them to be the Rays either (free agency speaking). They just have a pathetic appearance right now. And it all starts at the top. 

[GreenSox]

They are happy to be at the table for premium talent. They hit on 1 of 2 of their targets and continue to have great conversations.

[Moan4Yoan]

4 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They are happy to be at the table for premium talent. They hit on 1 of 2 of their targets and continue to have great conversations.

This specific phrase is Hahn’s most overused and it annoys me every time I hear him utter it.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Lightning]

Talk is cheap and so is Jerry!

[TomPickle]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

lol quite the follow up to just a couple days ago saying there was no urgency to get things done

[Flash Tizzle]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

When this first started, there was a bunch of 2019 is when the window will open posts. I remember when even optimistic Hawk was trying to temper expectations and said 2020 is when it was going to be great.

They definitely need a #3 SP to move along the narrative, and it sure as hell won’t be from free agency. 

I feel Vaughn and Madrigal are apart of a trade proposal.  There’s no one else (aside from Robert) that I could imagine them including to entice someone to give up a cost controlled, young SP with #3 potential. 
 

[SonofaRoache]

25 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

lol quite the follow up to just a couple days ago saying there was no urgency to get things done

Next couple of weeks, sooner rather than later, sounds like no urgency.

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Next couple of weeks, sooner rather than later, sounds like no urgency.

So if the conversation about whether they should do a trade or not was about Price, did Rick/Kenny think that they could just think it over for awhile and the Red Sox were not going to shop him elsewhere?

[Soxnfins]

33 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

lol quite the follow up to just a couple days ago saying there was no urgency to get things done

Hahn's going to do a desperation move, I guarantee it when it's not needed.  He's feeling the need to IMO

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

When this first started, there was a bunch of 2019 is when the window will open posts. I remember when even optimistic Hawk was trying to temper expectations and said 2020 is when it was going to be great.

Those sentiments were always, in my opinion, overly aggressive.  That said, it is like when the Bulls traded Butler....everyone thinks it is easy to get a superstar or do X and Y.  I always said, when you blow things up (and in the Sox case - it was absolutely the right move to make as the team just didn't have the underlying farm system / flexibility to ignore a rebuild), it ultimately takes time (and more time than fans think), that everything ends up like the Astros/Cubs, but the reality is, things aren't near that easy and more teams end up sucking forever because they are just bad organizations.  I'd say the Sox are trending / in that level, but the one caveat I would have is they did have a damn near 20 year run of being a quality team (unfortunately they never made enough post-season runs, but they were a pretty solid team in contention for a long damn time). Most of my child/early adult life, I knew the Sox had a chance at the playoffs each and every year (with very rare exception). My dissapointment in the franchise was how they would underwhelm or fall just short...not that they were absolute freaking turds.  The complete disappearance of player development and effective drafting ruined that basis though and the good news is, we have seen some of our younger/talented players emerge, but what we haven't seen is enough "home-grown" talent supplement the youth acquired in trade (Tim Anderson is the lone exception).  If the Sox are going to succeed, Tim Anderson has to be a common thing and the Sox need to regularly maintain a strong front-office.  

[centerfieldsixers]

23 minutes ago, Soxnfins said:

Hahn's going to do a desperation move, I guarantee it when it's not needed.  He's feeling the need to IMO

no he won't.  he ignores the message boards.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said:

no he won't.  he ignores analytics

Ftfy 

[ChiSox59]

At some point, there needs to be a sense of urgency.  If its not this offseason, it fucking better be next because the clock is ticking on all key pieces of the puzzle in 2020.  

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, Flash Tizzle said:

I’ll screenshot this when the sentiment in 2021 becomes, “Well guys it’s going to take a few years for everything to come together. 2022 is the time you can start evaluating the rebuild”

To be fair that's how a lot of rebuilds are. This one could be even worse if Gio and Moncada didn't take those steps last year. It couldve also been a lot better if Hahn didn't think he did an amazing job when the Jimmy Rollins/Mat Latos year started off well. That team was destined to do nothing, yet we pushed forward getting Shields when there was no reason to get aggressive to land a clearly over the hill Shields. Let's just hope hahn learned his lesson and doesn't go get D. Price and handcuff the future Sox again. Hell if we had Tatis right now this team could & would likely be in contention next year not only for a division, but possibly more. 

 

Which is to say ... look how close we are! Rendon wouldve been a really nice piece to put us into real contention, but now that it's over, let's not chase and overpay these remaining FA that are pushing for more than 1-2 year contracts. Hahn messed up another offseason - let's just enjoy the 81 win season and Robert and Madrigal and Kopech and Cease maturing instead of Detwiler, Cordell, and Delmonico out there and hopefully next year we are actually signing a Betts or the likes.

[WBWSF]

It looks more and more like that the 2020 White Sox rotation will be Giolito. Lopez, Kopech, Cease and whomever. Hopefully these young pitchers come through.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

At some point, there needs to be a sense of urgency.  If its not this offseason, it fucking better be next because the clock is ticking on all key pieces of the puzzle in 2020.  

Should have been last offseason.  Didn't Hahn even say last year was the offseason they were targeting for the past several years?  

The plan should have been to augment the new young core with a couple of proven stars.  Instead we suffered through the rebuild only to augment the core with change of scene candidates (Mazara) and washed up vets .

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Should have been last offseason.  Didn't Hahn even say last year was the offseason they were targeting for the past several years?  

The plan should have been to augment the new young core with a couple of proven stars.  Instead we suffered through the rebuild only to augment the core with change of scene candidates (Mazara) and washed up vets .

I will give Hahn credit for Grandal which was an amazing signing but I expected more.

It doesn’t appear that the Sox want to get involved in the bidding for the next tier of free agent starting pitchers (Bumgarner, Ryu, Keuchel).

Edited December 12, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

Should have been last offseason.  Didn't Hahn even say last year was the offseason they were targeting for the past several years?  

The plan should have been to augment the new young core with a couple of proven stars.  Instead we suffered through the rebuild only to augment the core with change of scene candidates (Mazara) and washed up vets .

Meh, last offseason was very clearly a year early IMO.  This was the one.  Unfortunately we lost a lot of options to early extensions, we got spurned by Wheeler (which I still think may end up being bullet dodged in a year or two), and the rest of the premier stuff got scooped up at insane AAV prices.  But none of that is going to change next offseason, sooooooo...yeah.  

[fathom]

Sox are so missing out on tier 2 guys

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1205228878005977088

[Moan4Yoan]

29 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox are so missing out on tier 2 guys

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1205228878005977088

It is starting to look that way.  What is left after that?  Pray for Price and dumpster diving for the Nova’s of the MLB?

Edited December 12, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[reiks12]

We arent even mentioned as checking in

[gdane]

I'm starting to wonder if it would be more effective for this FO to get lit up by tough questions and facts about competitive payroll from fans at Sox Fest, or if nobody shows up to Sox Fest.  I'm thinking the latter.