Successful Plan B; What’s Next?

[Sambuca]

Sure.  Trading everyone one of our elite young players is the exact equivalent of what I proposed.  

And uhh yeah totally putting that Florida Marlins plan on the table.  I’m just that kind of guy.

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, Sambuca said:

Madrigal, Cease, Basabe (Collins?) for Darvish and Rizzo. 

Anyone think we could get close on something like this?  I’d rather do something like Madrigal, Leury, Reynaldo, Collins but I don’t think the Cubs would trade Darvish with Reynaldo as the best SP coming back.  Although, I do belive this option could fill more holes on their current roster. 

They’d still be able to compete by singing a guy like Keuchel to somehwat replace Darvish while adding the talented young SP from the Sox who would probably be an asset next season.  

Madrigal could give them their 2B and top of the order hitter for the next six years. 

Collins could get time behind the plate and 1B to unrealistically but still possibly come close to replacing Rizzo’s power.  At worst, he will give them power and walks from the left side.  

Leury could also be a very nice piece next season as he can literally play all over the field and their current CF is awful across the board.  

The big thing for Cubs would be clearing 40mil over the next two years by taking on like 3mil in salary while filling holes on the current roster and replenishing the organization with young talent.  

 

 

Well, new poster, we certainly understand how the cubbies would benefit from such a stupid trade idea, based on how you articulated their benefits.  
 

Why would the White Sox even remotely entertain such nonsense?

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, Sambuca said:

Sure.  Trading everyone one of our elite young players is the exact equivalent of what I proposed.  

And uhh yeah totally putting that Florida Marlins plan on the table.  I’m just that kind of guy.

Do you also poop while standing up... are you also that kind of guy?

[Sambuca]

7 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Do you also poop while standing up... are you also that kind of guy?

I’m every kind of guy.  Be worried.

[Sambuca]

13 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:Well, new poster, we certainly understand how the cubbies would benefit from such a stupid trade idea, based on how you articulated their benefits.  
 

Why would the White Sox even remotely entertain such nonsense?

Hi, old poster.  I used to post at Whitesoxinteractive before it even became that, but under a different name.  Been reading her for the last few years during the offseason since no one posts over at WSI anymore.

In regards to the nonsense, the White Sox get a real LH hitter with massive power and ridiculous OBP skills.  They will compete the next two years after this trade and he would be a huge part of it.

Darvish has some risk tied to him due to his weird struggles and inconsistencies.  But he completely dominated the second half.  His stuff is arguably the best in baseball.  For his career, he has struck out more players per 9 than any other SP in the history of MLB.  

So while he might have his struggles, he might also be a completely dominant ace for the next four seasons.  His contract isn’t even that bad.

 

[hi8is]

16 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

I’m every kind of guy.  Be worried.

Huh... ok.

I didn’t know you existed.

[bschmaranz]

23 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

I’m every kind of guy.  Be worried.

Shapeshifter?

[BackDoorBreach]

2 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Madrigal, Cease, Basabe (Collins?) for Darvish and Rizzo. 

Anyone think we could get close on something like this?  I’d rather do something like Madrigal, Leury, Reynaldo, Collins but I don’t think the Cubs would trade Darvish with Reynaldo as the best SP coming back.  Although, I do belive this option could fill more holes on their current roster. 

They’d still be able to compete by singing a guy like Keuchel to somehwat replace Darvish while adding the talented young SP from the Sox who would probably be an asset next season.  

Madrigal could give them their 2B and top of the order hitter for the next six years. 

Collins could get time behind the plate and 1B to unrealistically but still possibly come close to replacing Rizzo’s power.  At worst, he will give them power and walks from the left side.  

Leury could also be a very nice piece next season as he can literally play all over the field and their current CF is awful across the board.  

The big thing for Cubs would be clearing 40mil over the next two years by taking on like 3mil in salary while filling holes on the current roster and replenishing the organization with young talent.  

 

 

Why would we want a team full of 1B and DHs?

[Sambuca]

17 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Huh... ok.

I didn’t know you existed.

That’s why I was warning you.  Because how could you know to worry before you knew I existed?

[Sambuca]

11 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Why would we want a team full of 1B and DHs?

Darvish is a pitcher.  Rizzo would be the 1B, Abreu would be the DH. Mostly.  Not sure who else you’re worried about besides Vaughn.  This will allow them to not rush him to the majors this year.  If he forces their hand next year, they can always make a trade.  Having good players is a good thing.  

[BackDoorBreach]

3 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Darvish is a pitcher.  Rizzo would be the 1B, Abreu would be the DH. Mostly.  Not sure who else you’re worried about besides Vaughn.  This will allow them to not rush him to the majors this year.  If he forces their hand next year, they can always make a trade.  Having good players is a good thing.  

Well Vaughn still is a thing regardless of how you want to manipulate him. Also Grandal is a thing for 1B/DH. And obviously Abreu.

[bschmaranz]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Well Vaughn still is a thing regardless of how you want to manipulate him. Also Grandal is a thing for 1B/DH. And obviously Abreu.

Also Abreu hits poorly when he DHs, not to mention he hates it.

[bschmaranz]

8 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

Darvish is a pitcher.  

I thought he was a shortstop?

[Sambuca]

Grandal is primarily C.  Yes, he will get some starts at DH.  Not sure why that should prevent a team from acquiring at LH power hitter with a .400 OBP.

My apologies if I manipulated Vaughn.  Would never manipulate him intentionally.  One thing you should know about me.

[Sambuca]

Just now, bschmaranz said:

I thought he was a shortstop?

Was that idea not whacky enough for Joe Maddon?

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Madrigal, Cease, Basabe (Collins?) for Darvish and Rizzo. 

Anyone think we could get close on something like this?  I’d rather do something like Madrigal, Leury, Reynaldo, Collins but I don’t think the Cubs would trade Darvish with Reynaldo as the best SP coming back.  Although, I do belive this option could fill more holes on their current roster. 

They’d still be able to compete by singing a guy like Keuchel to somehwat replace Darvish while adding the talented young SP from the Sox who would probably be an asset next season.  

Madrigal could give them their 2B and top of the order hitter for the next six years. 

Collins could get time behind the plate and 1B to unrealistically but still possibly come close to replacing Rizzo’s power.  At worst, he will give them power and walks from the left side.  

Leury could also be a very nice piece next season as he can literally play all over the field and their current CF is awful across the board.  

The big thing for Cubs would be clearing 40mil over the next two years by taking on like 3mil in salary while filling holes on the current roster and replenishing the organization with young talent.  

 

 

This is the single worst trade proposal I have seen in my 15+ years on the site.  Like I know that will come off completely dickish, but I can’t believe any legit Sox fan would propose such garbage.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, bschmaranz said:

Also Abreu hits poorly when he DHs, not to mention he hates it.

He may hate it but he’s hit perfectly fine as a DH in his career.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is the single worst trade proposal I have seen in my 15+ years on the site.  Like I know that will come off completely dickish, but I can’t believe any legit Sox fan would propose such garbage.

Player for player it’s pretty good.  The money, maybe not.  The idea of sending them Cease back for something valuable is pretty funny

[bschmaranz]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He may hate it but he’s hit perfectly fine as a DH in his career.

Ops was down 100 points last year as a DH.  I did notice for his career though it's comparable so you're right.

[SoxAce]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is the single worst trade proposal I have seen in my 15+ years on the site.  Like I know that will come off completely dickish, but I can’t believe any legit Sox fan would propose such garbage.

1. You've been here 11 years.

2. Not even close.

[SoCalChiSox]

COL seems to want to shed payroll.

How bout getting Marquez in exchange for also taking Desmond's deal?

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

COL seems to want to shed payroll.

How bout getting Marquez in exchange for also taking Desmond's deal?

They’re not that desperate...$25 million left for two years, they’re not going to trade Marquez even for $75 million of bad deals.  Certainly not for Collins and lower tier prospects.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Player for player it’s pretty good.  The money, maybe not.  The idea of sending them Cease back for something valuable is pretty funny

Cease has six years of cheap control, struck out 10 per 9 in his first major league stint, and has a 2.2 win projection for next year per Steamer (which is very conservative with young players).  Darvish is coming off a monster 2nd half and has a 3.8 win projection for next year, but is 33 years old and is owed $81M over the next four years.  Trading Cease for Darvish is likely a 2 win upgrade next year (at best) and you’d still need two starters but with $20M less to fill those spots.  This also ignores the fact that Cease should continue to get better and potentially match Darvish’s production from 2021 to 2023 at a fraction of cost, not to mention would be under control for 2024 & 2025 as well.  In summary, trading Cease straight up for Darvish would be an incredibly stupid deal that would never get an ounce of consideration from our front office.

As for Rizzo, he’s an excellent player under control for two more seasons at a total cost of $33 million.  At $9M/win, he could provide ~$39M in surplus value over the next two seasons.  That’s some real nice value, but Madrigal is a guy who is all but a guarantee to provide at least 14 wins over the next seven years for peanuts (defense, base-running, and elite bat to ball skills provide a 2 win floor IMO).  Hell, if he can provide six wins over the next three seasons before he hits arbitration that would be worth ~$52M in surplus value alone.  While this wouldn’t be as egregious as Cease for Darvish, I still would not even consider this trade.  Instead I’d simply get a stop-gap at DH for a year (perhaps EE) and transition to Vaughn in 2021. 

And just for fun, running this trade through basetradevalues.com as a 2x2 trade (ignoring Basabe, etc), we’d be giving up $82.4M in value for $36.5M in value.  While I don’t agree with certain valuations, I think it’s good enough to demonstrate how one-sides this trade would be, especially for a team that should be able to fill holes via free agency.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

1. You've been here 11 years.

2. Not even close.

I’ve been since before 2005, just under a different handle.

As for the trade, I truly believe it’s one of the worst trade proposals I have ever seen.  I’m excluding trades where we overvalue our own prospects, because those happen frequently.  It’s an all-in trade that doesn’t even fill any holes for us, as we’d still need two starters and a bat, but would now have ~$40M less to do so with.  Look, valuation is subjective, but that’s a move so bad that I would have to question whether Hahn was looking for a future job with the Cubs.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, bschmaranz said:

Ops was down 100 points last year as a DH.  I did notice for his career though it's comparable so you're right.

Yeah, I was going off career numbers, so there could definitely be some noise there, but I think using last year alone is too small of a sample.  At a minimum, there aren’t a ton of red flags that he would be unable to handle DH.