The Myth of RIck Hahn the Closer/PPTer Extraordinaire

[caulfield12]

In the end, it's a business of closing.

He has one box checked where he did something that almost nobody in baseball or loyal White Sox fans expected, beating out the Cardinals for Luis Robert.

 

Recently, we have a series of deals where we arguably overpaid by 10-15%, including Grandal, Abreu and the Jimenez extension.  There's certainly no "value extraction" going on in any of those moves.

Of the other big-name acquisitions under his stewardship, Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche were all overpaid to various degrees as well.  And we know all about last year's FA class.

 

We can dwell on Wheeler, Machado (which actually worked out for the best, at least right now), Tanaka, etc., but he's going to be judged ultimately on won-loss record from this season forwards, not on getting turned down by Wheeler's fiance/family, essentially.

 

Right now, we're left in a situation where we're forced back into Tier B/C pitching prospects with obvious warts...nothing unusual for the White Sox (or the Twins/Indians, for that matter.)

From here on out, he's going to have to be extremely creative, and that's not his area of expertise.

Looking at it logically, one would assume that means using the knowledge of Grandal...the Cuban/Latin American baseball family and Renteria as the manager, to try to leverage those relationships to bring in some more useful/undervalued players.  Of course, that's a double-edged sword...I'd love to believe that the ethnic background or composition of the clubhouse or even the manager in this day and age would never be a factor in the player/agent decision-making process, but I'm not sure that's being 100% realistic, either.

ULTIMATELY, as far as Hahn specifically goes, a great closer would be expected to get at least one of Moncada, Giolito or Luis Robert to sign an extension.  I'll believe it when I see it, particularly with Moncada and Robert.

If he can't do that, and he consistently fails to close the deal....regardless of whether it was the "right" or wrong player looking back retrospectively...and there's nothing else he demonstrably excels at (if there IS one, would love to hear it), then they need to find a new leader that can do a better job of selling the Chicago White Sox as an organization.   Who doesn't sell it like a stock or bond or market arbitrage, but lives/dies/bleeds with every up and down of the organization.  He doesn't have to be Hawk Harrelson, but something is missing, not sure if it's passion/charisma, but he just doesn't have the X Factor that great executives tend to possess, the ability to inspire his leadership team and inspire/motivate those around him to unparalleled heights.   

(Of course, we all know this is not how JR operates and there's never going to be a course correction.  Not until/unless JR sells the team. Hahn will resign/fall on his own sword if the rebuild tanks and take a "promotion" to a position below KW or get a job in Silicon Valley or on Wall Street.)

Edited December 5, 2019 by caulfield12

[whitesoxbrad]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In the end, it's a business of closing.

He has one box checked where he did something that almost nobody in baseball or loyal White Sox fans expected, beating out the Cardinals for Luis Robert.

 

Recently, we have a series of deals where we arguably overpaid by 10-15%, including Grandal, Abreu and the Jimenez extension.  There's certainly no "value extraction" going on in any of those moves.

Of the other big-name acquisitions under his stewardship, Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche were all overpaid to various degrees as well.  And we know all about last year's FA class.

 

We can dwell on Wheeler, Machado (which actually worked out for the best, at least right now), Tanaka, etc., but he's going to be judged ultimately on won-loss record from this season forwards, not on getting turned down by Wheeler's fiance/family, essentially.

 

Right now, we're left in a situation where we're forced back into Tier B/C pitching prospects with obvious warts...nothing unusual for the White Sox (or the Twins/Indians, for that matter.)

From here on out, he's going to have to be extremely creative, and that's not his area of expertise.

Looking at it logically, one would assume that means using the knowledge of Grandal...the Cuban/Latin American baseball family and Renteria as the manager, to try to leverage those relationships to bring in some more useful/undervalued players.  Of course, that's a double-edged sword...I'd love to believe that the ethnic background or composition of the clubhouse or even the manager in this day and age would never be a factor in the player/agent decision-making process, but I'm not sure that's being 100% realistic, either.

ULTIMATELY, as far as Hahn specifically goes, a great closer would be expected to get at least one of Moncada, Giolito or Luis Robert to sign an extension.  I'll believe it when I see it, particularly with Moncada and Robert.

If he can't do that, and he consistently fails to close the deal....regardless of whether it was the "right" or wrong player looking back retrospectively...and there's nothing else he demonstrably excels at (if there IS one, would love to hear it), then they need to find a new leader that can do a better job of selling the Chicago White Sox as an organization.   Who doesn't sell it like a stock or bond or market arbitrage, but lives/dies/bleeds with every up and down of the organization.  He doesn't have to be Hawk Harrelson, but something is missing, not sure if it's passion/charisma, but he just doesn't have the X Factor that great executives tend to possess, the ability to inspire his leadership team and inspire/motivate those around him to unparalleled heights.   

(Of course, we all know this is not how JR operates and there's never going to be a course correction.  Not until/unless JR sells the team. Hahn will resign/fall on his own sword if the rebuild tanks and take a "promotion" to a position below KW or get a job in Silicon Valley or on Wall Street.)

Great analysis, spot on, very impressive.

Thank you 

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

In the end, it's a business of closing.

He has one box checked where he did something that almost nobody in baseball or loyal White Sox fans expected, beating out the Cardinals for Luis Robert.

 

Recently, we have a series of deals where we arguably overpaid by 10-15%, including Grandal, Abreu and the Jimenez extension.  There's certainly no "value extraction" going on in any of those moves.

Of the other big-name acquisitions under his stewardship, Robertson, Cabrera and LaRoche were all overpaid to various degrees as well.  And we know all about last year's FA class.

 

We can dwell on Wheeler, Machado (which actually worked out for the best, at least right now), Tanaka, etc., but he's going to be judged ultimately on won-loss record from this season forwards, not on getting turned down by Wheeler's fiance/family, essentially.

 

Right now, we're left in a situation where we're forced back into Tier B/C pitching prospects with obvious warts...nothing unusual for the White Sox (or the Twins/Indians, for that matter.)

From here on out, he's going to have to be extremely creative, and that's not his area of expertise.

Looking at it logically, one would assume that means using the knowledge of Grandal...the Cuban/Latin American baseball family and Renteria as the manager, to try to leverage those relationships to bring in some more useful/undervalued players.  Of course, that's a double-edged sword...I'd love to believe that the ethnic background or composition of the clubhouse or even the manager in this day and age would never be a factor in the player/agent decision-making process, but I'm not sure that's being 100% realistic, either.

ULTIMATELY, as far as Hahn specifically goes, a great closer would be expected to get at least one of Moncada, Giolito or Luis Robert to sign an extension.  I'll believe it when I see it, particularly with Moncada and Robert.

If he can't do that, and he consistently fails to close the deal....regardless of whether it was the "right" or wrong player looking back retrospectively...and there's nothing else he demonstrably excels at (if there IS one, would love to hear it), then they need to find a new leader that can do a better job of selling the Chicago White Sox as an organization.   Who doesn't sell it like a stock or bond or market arbitrage, but lives/dies/bleeds with every up and down of the organization.  He doesn't have to be Hawk Harrelson, but something is missing, not sure if it's passion/charisma, but he just doesn't have the X Factor that great executives tend to possess, the ability to inspire his leadership team and inspire/motivate those around him to unparalleled heights.   

(Of course, we all know this is not how JR operates and there's never going to be a course correction.  Not until/unless JR sells the team. Hahn will resign/fall on his own sword if the rebuild tanks and take a "promotion" to a position below KW or get a job in Silicon Valley or on Wall Street.)

Hahn should have been fired years ago. The franchise needs a new GM. I've requested to be interviewed for the job a number of times with JR. I still haven't received a response from him. I would give JR the most unforgettable interview he ever witnessed in his life. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, WBWSF said:

Hahn should have been fired years ago. The franchise needs a new GM. I've requested to be interviewed for the job a number of times with JR. I still haven't received a response from him. I would give JR the most unforgettable interview he ever witnessed in his life. 

Do you copy and paste this same paragraph over & over again?

[NCsoxfan]

Hahn is the Craig Ehlo of GMs. Like MJ did to Ehlo for so many years in basketball, Hahn’s the guy that all the top GMs love to crush.

[WBWSF]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you copy and paste this same paragraph over & over again?

There have been rumors for years that JR reads  this website. He knows who I am. I want to keep reminding him  that I still would like to be interviewed for the GM job.

[DirtySox]

Just ignore the thread and it will go away.

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Hahn is the Craig Ehlo of GMs. Like MJ did to Ehlo for so many years in basketball, Hahn’s the guy that all the top GMs love to crush.

Nah... Washington Generals. 

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Just ignore the thread and it will go away.

Unlike the underlying issues with Rick Hahn... that's the only constant.  

They can even insert it into James Earl Jones' Field of Dreams monologue in defense of the sport. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by caulfield12

[EloyJenkins]

Fuck this thread and anyone who takes it seriously

[caulfield12]

41 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Fuck this thread and anyone who takes it seriously

LOL.   Very mature.   This is typical of the state of discourse in America today.  

Make your own thread.   Debate/discuss.  Rebut. 

It's a free world.   I would imagine the Hahn Defense Team is in the minority today. 

 

If you don't like a poster, don't read his posts. Totally trashing him is very childish. 

SCCWS (12/04/19)

Edited December 5, 2019 by caulfield12

[Cashman]

8 hours ago, WBWSF said:

There have been rumors for years that JR reads  this website. He knows who I am. I want to keep reminding him  that I still would like to be interviewed for the GM job.

Were you a certain GM of a team out west?

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you copy and paste this same paragraph over & over again?

It's his thing...live and let live.

[Dick Allen]

9 hours ago, WBWSF said:

There have been rumors for years that JR reads  this website. He knows who I am. I want to keep reminding him  that I still would like to be interviewed for the GM job.

I'm thinking if he hasn't given you an audience yet, it's probably a sign. 

[quickman]

Is this all because wheeler didn’t accept our over inflated deal and actually got input from his family to stay closer to home? If he would have signed does this post go out? We are criticizing him for overpaying on a catcher who we have needed desperately for years but cutting him down for not over paying for a 12 win pitcher? He extended Anderson and Jimenez and the latest trend is to not take extensions and go to the market and get overpaid. Let’s wait to see how the rest of the offseason plays out. We have a hole in right field, the bullpen, and a second baseman for at least this year. I do think we were aggressive on wheeler and if the Phillies or Mets didn’t participate we would all be celebrating. People go where they want to live. I left this board years ago because of hysteria and daily anxiety about how great our minor league players were. I come back to view every hot stove just to get info. Nice to see little has changed. Keep in perspective we have a lot of holes to fill. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by quickman
Mid spelling

[WBWSF]

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I'm thinking if he hasn't given you an audience yet, it's probably a sign. 

I've written JR a number  of letters the last few years where I recommended things that  have nothing to do with me being the GM. He use to respond to me  years ago, not anymore. Its a shame because I've had some real good ideas that he won't even consider.

[Dick Allen]

14 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've written JR a number  of letters the last few years where I recommended things that  have nothing to do with me being the GM. He use to respond to me  years ago, not anymore. Its a shame because I've had some real good ideas that he won't even consider.

He probably has Hahn read his letters to him now. Rick is probably not letting your good ideas get to him because it will make him look bad. I think you should try a different approach.