Tsutsugo - UPDATE: To Rays

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I like the idea of trading Collins and signing Tsutsugo to DH. At least Tsutsugo can be hidden in LF on occasion. 

 

If you're taking a contract from Boston with Benintendi attached, it's gotta be Sale. When he's healthy he's still an ace. Idk how Kenny and Chris would feel about a reunion though. It would have to be $120M of Sale's contract and Benintendi for Collins, Rutherford and some lottery tickets. 

Chris Sale is not coming back to the Chicago White Sox. Sale has a full no-trade clause.

[BackDoorBreach]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I like the idea of trading Collins and signing Tsutsugo to DH. At least Tsutsugo can be hidden in LF on occasion. 

 

If you're taking a contract from Boston with Benintendi attached, it's gotta be Sale. When he's healthy he's still an ace. Idk how Kenny and Chris would feel about a reunion though. It would have to be $120M of Sale's contract and Benintendi for Collins, Rutherford and some lottery tickets. 

The Chris Sale thing is such a meatball take but I would do it if we could get another piece.  I just don't know if Boston would even be interested in that with all the other really bad money they have.

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Chris Sale is not coming back to the Chicago White Sox. Sale has a full no-trade clause.

I didn't know that. Hard pass on Price then. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

The Chris Sale thing is such a meatball take but I would do it if we could get another piece.  I just don't know if Boston would even be interested in that with all the other really bad money they have.

I don't think Sale would waive

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I didn't know that. Hard pass on Price then. 

Per sources, Chris Sale will receive a full no-trade clause during 2020 season once he reaches 10 years of Major League service time. Sale's extension also includes an opt-out after 2022 and contains a vesting option for 2025 worth at least $20M based on starts.
 

Sale would never come back here. I'd take Chris Sale in a heartbeat, and it's ironic how correct Cooper was about him being a max-effort guy all year (people laughed at Cooper for this too) being detrimental to his health.

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Chris Sale is not coming back to the Chicago White Sox. Sale has a full no-trade clause.

 

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Per sources, Chris Sale will receive a full no-trade clause during 2020 season once he reaches 10 years of Major League service time. Sale's extension also includes an opt-out after 2022 and contains a vesting option for 2025 worth at least $20M based on starts.
 

Sale would never come back here. I'd take Chris Sale in a heartbeat, and it's ironic how correct Cooper was about him being a max-effort guy all year (people laughed at Cooper for this too) being detrimental to his health.

Wait, so he does or doesn't have a no-trade clause currently?

Edited December 5, 2019 by soxfan2014

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Per sources, Chris Sale will receive a full no-trade clause during 2020 season once he reaches 10 years of Major League service time. Sale's extension also includes an opt-out after 2022 and contains a vesting option for 2025 worth at least $20M based on starts.
 

Sale would never come back here. I'd take Chris Sale in a heartbeat, and it's ironic how correct Cooper was about him being a max-effort guy all year (people laughed at Cooper for this too) being detrimental to his health.

Oh shit, if you read that, it's just 5/10 rights. 

I don't think he has a choice right now. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

 

Wait, so he does or doesn't have a no-trade clause?

I'm not positive the exact date in which the calendar turns over to being the 2020 season. Is it Jan 1? It may be when free agency begins. I'm not sure.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Oh shit, if you read that, it's just 5/10 rights. 

I don't think he has a choice right now. 

Yeah, I get that but I'm also not sure when the calendar turns over to 2020 for these reasons. Spring training? FA opening? I'm admittedly not sure on the rules pertaining to that.

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not positive the exact date in which the calendar turns over to being the 2020 season. Is it Jan 1? It may be when free agency begins. I'm not sure.

That sounds like 5/10 stuff. He won't be with Boston for 5 seasons until the conclusion of next season. 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not positive the exact date in which the calendar turns over to being the 2020 season. Is it Jan 1? It may be when free agency begins. I'm not sure.

I think when he gets to 10 years service time during the season. He's currently listed on Baseball Ref at 9 years and 61 days.

Edited December 5, 2019 by soxfan2014

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, I get that but I'm also not sure when the calendar turns over to 2020 for these reasons. Spring training? FA opening? I'm admittedly not sure on the rules pertaining to that.

He only has 4 seasons with Boston. 5/10 doesn't kick in until the end of 2020. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

I think when he gets to 10 years service time during the season.

Yeah, but he hasn't been with Boston for 5 years yet, unless it's an either/or not both. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That sounds like 5/10 stuff. He won't be with Boston for 5 seasons until the conclusion of next season. 

It literally says he will have full no trade in the 2020 MLB season so it will not be after the conclusion of the season. It's when the calendar officially turns over to baseball's 2020 maybe?

This will only be Sale's 4th season in Boston, so he'd technically have to get through all of 2021 to have 5 years of service time with them. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

I think when he gets to 10 years service time during the season. He's currently listed on Baseball Ref at 9 years and 61 days.

That would make sense. So they have 304 days to trade him then; if that is how that's structured. 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, but he hasn't been with Boston for 5 years yet, unless it's an either/or not both. 

That's true too. 10/5 rights would be 10 years in league, 5 for the same current team.

Edit: I think. Could be wrong.

Edited December 5, 2019 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I think when he gets to 10 years service time during the season. He's currently listed on Baseball Ref at 9 years and 61 days.

Man, time flies.  Can't believe Chris Sale has been in the league for 10 fuckin years.  

[Eminor3rd]

26 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Thanks for this; I was curious about that. I wouldn't worry as much about his K-Rate if he's a + fastball hitter. Off-speed in Japan really isn't behind off-speed stuff in the states, but fastball velocity is (at least that's how it was before, you would know more about this today). 

Fastball velo is ticking up, but definitely still behind the states. I’m not sure what the official number is, but just anecdotally from watching about 60-70 games last year it’s probably about 91-93. Relievers are routinely around 94, elite starters can be 95+ With guys like Senga sitting 97-100, but there are lot of innings given to Mid and back end starters (six-man rotations!) that are sitting 86-89 all game. And there are still some TOR guys too though that are just command control wizards with six pitches that barely touch 90.

Most hitters (I’d say 85+%) have a contact-focused two strike approach, which confounds even stateside guys who come over here to pitch and see their Ks actually go down. It’s amazing how many balls these guys can foul off when they’re SOLELY trying to not miss. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Eminor3rd

[daggins]

I hope we sign this guy, so I can sing his name like Phil Collins.

Tsut-Tsut-Tsut-sugoooo

[rowand's rowdies]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Many of the concerns about defense led me to my hope that the Sox will inquire about Benintendi.

"That's where The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal comes in. He threw out a lot of possibilities when talking about the Red Sox situation Tuesday morning, and one seemed mighty intriguing from a White Sox standpoint.

"A better path might be to move left-hander David Price, who is owed $96 million over the next three years, or righty Nathan Eovaldi, who is owed $51 million over the next three. Impossible, you say? Well, what if the Red Sox included cash in a trade and also attached left fielder Andrew Benintendi, who remains cost-effective as he enters his first year of arbitration?"

Now that is interesting. Yes, it involves paying and dedicating a roster spot to Price or Eovaldi, who despite their heroics in the 2018 World Series, aren't very dreamy adds for a White Sox team looking to ramp up to perennial contention. Those guys' contracts are albatrosses in Boston. They wouldn't get much better in Chicago, even though the White Sox are in no danger of bumping up to the luxury tax. But both Price and Eovaldi could be usable pitchers for the White Sox in 2020 and beyond, even if they aren't performing at a level their contracts say they should be.

The real appealing element of that suggestion, though, is the upside of Benintendi. He has three affordable, arbitration-eligible seasons remaining until he hits free agency, making him a long-term piece. He's also very good, with a .277/.354/.442 slash line to go along with 51 homers in his 471-game big league career. Like much of what happened last season in Boston, 2019 was nowhere near as good as 2018 for Benintendi, who posted career highs in hits, runs scored, doubles, stolen bases, walks and on-base percentage during the Red Sox march to a world championship. In 2019, he slashed .266/.343/.431 with 13 homers, 40 doubles, 68 RBIs and 10 stolen bases in 138 games. He also struck out 34 more times in 10 fewer games.

Benintendi brings additional value as a left-handed hitter, something almost completely missing from the White Sox lineup. He is also a left fielder, a position the White Sox have filled with Jimenez. Neither player has ever played right field, and putting either there could be signing up for some unwanted defensive issues down the road. But Benintendi is a young, controllable, very good baseball player, and that seems like the kind of thing the White Sox, who have worked hard to achieve their much discussed financial flexibility, would be interested in."

 

All 3 of Price, Eovaldi and Benintendi and $27 Million for Carson Fulmer.

Use that $120 they were about to spend on Wheeler for 5 seasons and use it over 3 years instead for 2 starters in Price and Eovaldi. 

I call it...plan E (as in plan Emergency).

You're welcome, Hahn.

Edited December 5, 2019 by rowand's rowdies

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Hard pass, dudes from the NPB just about never pan out, there's a reason they didn't come here earlier

If that was an option that'd be tremendous, but it ain't

And what is that reason?

There is one, I’m just wondering if you know it. 

[Jack Parkman]

13 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

And what is that reason?

There is one, I’m just wondering if you know it. 

Ichiro and Matsui worked out ok. Matsui was about the same age as Tsutsugo when he came over. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

I beg to differ, they need to start adding players to the core now that will help them win championships. They already have a young core to build around so if there goal is the playoffs and beyond than they need to add quality pieces to the core already in place. That doesn’t mean trading away there young core but players that will bring back the most in a trade. 

You beg to differ ? You didn't differ at all . You did nothing but state the obvious. No shit we have to build around the core .So don't trade the core but trade away players that will bring back the most in trade ? Who would that be ? Oh yeah it would be the young core. Ad yea I include the unproven guys in that core., Collins, Kopech, Lopez, Cease, Dunning. Robert , Madrigal and whoever I forgot.

[Bob Sacamano]

I just can't see the Red Sox dealing Benintendi (at low value) when they are trying to cut payroll and trying/likely to move JDM and Betts.

Edited December 5, 2019 by soxfan2014

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

And what is that reason?

There is one, I’m just wondering if you know it. 

When we're talking about the big stars there's been a couple reasons for failures, and a lack of leaving. I also think people greatly underestimate the incredible cultural change and shock that Japanese players experience when they come state-side; it's much more dramatic than any other players experience.

Obviously the posting system has changed, which has had an effect as it's not as beneficial for teams to lose their stars to the MLB.

Also, someone like Kaz Matsui just couldn't hit a high velocity fastball. If you haven't seen it consistently, and you can't hit it consistently, you just won't succeed in MLB. The league in general breeds better off-speed hitters too, which obviously impacts their transition.

Would love to hear your thoughts as well.