Trade Market for Starting Pitchers...

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The dinky trades? I think getting Gio, reylo, dunning, Eloy, cease, Kopech and moncada out of three players is pretty good.

Lost tatis and lost Samardzija. 

You are jumping the gun quite a bit and are assuming good careers for four pitchers who have done nothing in the majors so far.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

They haven't made a good trade for a starting pitcher since before the Kenny Williams era. A few have been pure disasters.
They seem hell- bent on repeating the things that don't work, and not repeating the things that do.
Just a couple of #4s would really help this staff.

Regarding the bolded - it seems to me that fans here on the ones hellbent on repeating past mistakes.  To this point, the Sox haven't actually made any of those moves.

Trading Madrigal or Cease or really any major piece of the future would be one of those moves.

As would signing Ozuna to anything over 3/$50M. 

[ChiSox59]

50 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Name them.  Edit:  Contreras was an excellent trade.
Vazquez*, Danks, Peavy, Wells and Garcia were nothingballs.  Ritchie and Jackson were bad.  Liriano was a terrible trade.  Samardjzija and Shields damaged the organization.  I'm sure I've forgotten some.
*Could be moved to the "Bad" category.

To call danks a "nothingball" is insane.  Guy was really really good before he got hurt.  4 seasons in a row he accumulated 15 fWAR.  That is quite good.  

[Moan4Yoan]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Regarding the bolded - it seems to me that fans here on the ones hellbent on repeating past mistakes.  To this point, the Sox haven't actually made any of those moves.

Trading Madrigal or Cease or really any major piece of the future would be one of those moves.

As would signing Ozuna to anything over 3/$50M. 

Do you really think this contract is in any way reflective of the current free agent market?  Arguably the first or second best available free agent outfielder who just turned 29 is going to sign a 3 year deal?

Edited December 9, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Vote4Pedro]

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Do you really think this contract is in any way reflective of the free agent market?  An outfielder who just turned 29 is going to sign a 3 year deal?

I’d be shocked if he signs for anything less than a 4 year deal

[Wisebri224]

CBS Sports has a dumb idea. We trade for Price and give up Herrera (yes please) and Burger. Red Sox give us $20 million making Price 3 years at $73 million. 2 of his 4 years in Boston he’s been hurt and we are paying $24 million a year? Give us $40 million and I’m ok with him as our #3 or4. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Do you really think this contract is in any way reflective of the free agent market?  An outfielder, arguably the first or second best available, who just turned 29 is going to sign a 3 year deal?

No, I don't think Ozuna is going to sign a deal under 4 years or under like $18M AAV.  I also think handing Ozuna a 4 year deal and committing to dogshit OF defense for the next 4 years is not a move we should be making. 

If it were up to me, I'd be trading lesser prospects for a 1 year RF stop gap, and spending my money on SP, a decent veteran pen arm and some bench help.  

If the Ozuna deal goes through, I will reserve final judgement until I see the dollars and years, but I really don't like the fit at all.  I also admit that he's an enormous upgrade over what we have, and I think his bat plays just fine in RF.  The defense is what bothers me.  

[Vote4Pedro]

Just now, Wisebri224 said:

CBS Sports has a dumb idea. We trade for Price and give up Herrera (yes please) and Burger. Red Sox give us $20 million making Price 3 years at $73 million. 2 of his 4 years in Boston he’s been hurt and we are paying $24 million a year? Give us $40 million and I’m ok with him as our #3 or4. 

I’d do that deal all day everyday Herrera is a dumpster fire and does anyone really think burger is going to amount to anything at this point with all his set backs

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

CBS Sports has a dumb idea. We trade for Price and give up Herrera (yes please) and Burger. Red Sox give us $20 million making Price 3 years at $73 million. 2 of his 4 years in Boston he’s been hurt and we are paying $24 million a year? Give us $40 million and I’m ok with him as our #3 or4. 

Technically that'd be closer to 3 years, $65 million since we are shedding Herrera's $8.5 million.

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

No, I don't think Ozuna is going to sign a deal under 4 years or under like $18M AAV.  I also think handing Ozuna a 4 year deal and committing to dogshit OF defense for the next 4 years is not a move we should be making. 

If it were up to me, I'd be trading lesser prospects for a 1 year RF stop gap, and spending my money on SP, a decent veteran pen arm and some bench help.  

If the Ozuna deal goes through, I will reserve final judgement until I see the dollars and years, but I really don't like the fit at all.  I also admit that he's an enormous upgrade over what we have, and I think his bat plays just fine in RF.  The defense is what bothers me.  

If the rumors are true, Hahn has tried to acquire Joc in back-to-back offseasons.  Maybe the Dodgers are asking too much.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

If the rumors are true, Hahn has tried to acquire Joc in back-to-back offseasons.  Maybe the Dodgers are asking too much.

There are other options.  

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

4 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

CBS Sports has a dumb idea. We trade for Price and give up Herrera (yes please) and Burger. Red Sox give us $20 million making Price 3 years at $73 million. 2 of his 4 years in Boston he’s been hurt and we are paying $24 million a year? Give us $40 million and I’m ok with him as our #3 or4. 

I don't think Boston would do that trade. Even with the notion out there they need to shed payroll, Herrera and Burger (especially Burger) have little to no value. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

If the rumors are true, Hahn has tried to acquire Joc in back-to-back offseasons.  Maybe the Dodgers are asking too much.

I would not be surprised at all if the Dodgers asking price is too high. They're the only team in the bigs that seems readily able to play 5 outfielders - every other team would want to clear one out of the way.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

Hmm, we're different in a few ways. I am willing to trade Vaughn for the right deal. But Betts sure as hell ain't it. Because there's no chance he re-signs here. So I'm not giving up a monster prospect for a one year rental. That would be horrible asset management.

If the Sox move Vaughn, it should be for a SP with at least 3 years of control.

In the example we were discussing... that's Price.

[GreenSox]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

To call danks a "nothingball" is insane.  Guy was really really good before he got hurt.  4 seasons in a row he accumulated 15 fWAR.  That is quite good.  

17.5 WAR for Danks; 16 WAR for McCarthy. In the  first few years of their trade, Danks was better, and McCarthy was hurt so I guess it was good.

[caulfield12]

Giving all that money to Price after his last two seasons...then giving away Burger for nothing, when he hasn't even attempted his comeback in 2020, that would be insane.

It's one thing if you're leveraging that to get back Benintendi or even Betts.

But just for Price, when there are plenty of guys to sign who just cost money?  That's just a recipe for running into payroll problems in the future.

The last time we made a move like this that really worked out well was Thome + cash for Rowand...although we dumped Thome one year too early and it cost them a division in 2010.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Giving all that money to Price after his last two seasons...then giving away Burger for nothing, when he hasn't even attempted his comeback in 2020, that would be insane.

It's one thing if you're leveraging that to get back Benintendi or even Betts.

But just for Price, when there are plenty of guys to sign who just cost money?  That's just a recipe for running into payroll problems in the future.

The last time we made a move like this that really worked out well was Thome + cash for Rowand...although we dumped Thome one year too early and it cost them a division in 2010.

Technically the Sox did not dump Thome. They traded him to the Dodgers to give him a shot at getting a ring. The Twins signed him in the offseason. Obviously the Sox never had any intention of bringing him back, and they totally screwed up on that end.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

47 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You are jumping the gun quite a bit and are assuming good careers for four pitchers who have done nothing in the majors so far.

Not all 4 even need to pan out for those to be solid trades.

[hi8is]

16 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Technically the Sox did not dump Thome. 

?‍️

Edited December 9, 2019 by hi8is

[Moan4Yoan]

25 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Technically the Sox did not dump Thome. They traded him to the Dodgers to give him a shot at getting a ring. The Twins signed him in the offseason. Obviously the Sox never had any intention of bringing him back, and they totally screwed up on that end.

They replaced a Hall of Famer with the corpse of Mark Kotsay.  It was a horrible decision by Kenny/Ozzie.

[caulfield12]

53 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Technically the Sox did not dump Thome. They traded him to the Dodgers to give him a shot at getting a ring. The Twins signed him in the offseason. Obviously the Sox never had any intention of bringing him back, and they totally screwed up on that end.

Well, sure...the Dodgers were in a playoff run, where he was going to be consigned to coming off the bench.

They already must have known that Ozzie was adamant about wanting the positional flexibility (which turned out disastrously) in 2010.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

43 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

They replaced a Hall of Famer with the corpse of Mark Kotsay.  It was a horrible decision by Kenny/Ozzie.

I didn't say it wasn't. Go back and read my post, it was a total screw-up. 

 

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, sure...the Dodgers were in a playoff run, where he was going to be consigned to coming off the bench.

They already must have known that Ozzie was adamant about wanting the positional flexibility (which turned out disastrously) in 2010.

I'm not sure what their line of thinking was. They didn't even bother to replace Thome's production. At least when they originally got Thome he was replacing Everett and what was thought of at the time a broken-down Thomas. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I'm not sure what their line of thinking was. They didn't even bother to replace Thome's production. At least when they originally got Thome he was replacing Everett and what was thought of at the time a broken-down Thomas. 

The Chairman literally outlined their thinking on TV during a recorded meeting with Selig, they wanted to be able to move people in and out of the DH position to keep them fresher since the drugs were less prevalent.

The problem was that they insisted on one player being a key part of that rotation who wasn't a big league starter (Kotsay). 

[Sarava]

7 hours ago, poppysox said:

In the example we were discussing... that's Price.

Gotcha. I think we all can agree that if we move a high-end prospect like Vaughn, the SP coming back needs to be younger and more in their prime than Price is.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

Gotcha. I think we all can agree that if we move a high-end prospect like Vaughn, the SP coming back needs to be younger and more in their prime than Price is.

Younger and better.