Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 There have been rumblings that this was going to be decided soon. I don't think some realize how big of a deal this ruling is. I don't think Bryant wins, but he has a better chance then anyone before him and this ruling has massive ramifications for the White Sox and the rest of baseball. Assuming they rule on this prior to the start of next season, if it does rule in Bryant's favor the White Sox are better off just starting Robert in the big leagues - same with Madrigal obviously. They likely can't call him up real close to the deadline without losing a grievance and a year of control. I wonder when this is finalized because if the Cubs wanted to trade Bryant this obviously has huge ramifications on their return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 If Madrigal has a good spring they should bring him up on game #1. We want to win games, not worry about control and $. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 We did Robert a solid, I don't think he will make a big deal about two weeks down. I still think they do an extension with him anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chisox378 said: If Madrigal has a good spring they should bring him up on game #1. We want to win games, not worry about control and $. Speak for yourself. I want the team to be prudent. I want to win as many games as possibles for as long as a period of possible. Madrigal wins the team a lot more games with 162 games in 2027 than he does with 13 games in 2020. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: There have been rumblings that this was going to be decided soon. I don't think some realize how big of a deal this ruling is. I don't think Bryant wins, but he has a better chance then anyone before him and this ruling has massive ramifications for the White Sox and the rest of baseball. Assuming they rule on this prior to the start of next season, if it does rule in Bryant's favor the White Sox are better off just starting Robert in the big leagues - same with Madrigal obviously. They likely can't call him up real close to the deadline without losing a grievance and a year of control. I wonder when this is finalized because if the Cubs wanted to trade Bryant this obviously has huge ramifications on their return. If it goes Bryant's way Robert is obviously up immediately. Madrigal I'm not so sure about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: There have been rumblings that this was going to be decided soon. I don't think some realize how big of a deal this ruling is. I don't think Bryant wins, but he has a better chance then anyone before him and this ruling has massive ramifications for the White Sox and the rest of baseball. Assuming they rule on this prior to the start of next season, if it does rule in Bryant's favor the White Sox are better off just starting Robert in the big leagues - same with Madrigal obviously. They likely can't call him up real close to the deadline without losing a grievance and a year of control. I wonder when this is finalized because if the Cubs wanted to trade Bryant this obviously has huge ramifications on their return. I would think a massive overhaul to the service time setup is coming anyways. Hahn surely knows much, much more about this than us fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, raBBit said: Speak for yourself. I want the team to be prudent. I want to win as many games as possibles for as long as a period of possible. Madrigal wins the team a lot more games with 162 games in 2027 than he does with 13 games in 2020. Yes I also want the Sox to regain the additional season of control over Kopech they lost due to TJS. Unless extended early, Madrigal/Robert/Kopech should all be in AAA to start 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanJoeCrede Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Does anyone know the exact dates where each one can come up and gain the extra year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said: Does anyone know the exact dates where each one can come up and gain the extra year? http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/service-time This explains it all^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Unless extended early, Madrigal/Robert/Kopech should all be in AAA to start 2020. That would be pretty tough to defend something so obvious in a grievance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, Hatchetman said: That would be pretty tough to defend something so obvious in a grievance. It is not as obvious as you might think. Kopech is returning from TJS, you honestly think he's ready to step back into the MLB after not playing all 2019? Madrigal/Robert were promoted late in the season to AAA, it would be pretty reasonable to say the organization wanted to see how they perform early in 2020 before calling them up to the MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Hatchetman said: That would be pretty tough to defend something so obvious in a grievance. Robert is damn near impossible to pitch this way, and Kopech would have a hell of an argument if the Sox bring him up within a week or so of deadline; figure it this way, he was ready enough to be called up for good right before his injury (Sox were quoted at the time saying he's here to stay), and then he recovered fully from the injury by ST. You could argue they want to control innings and limit his risk in the big leagues, but they can't argue that and then call him up a week after deadline. Madrigal I think the Sox would be fine on, as he doesn't have any explosive tools. Robert I don't think anyone could make an argument for him not being ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, steveno89 said: It is not as obvious as you might think. Kopech is returning from TJS, you honestly think he's ready to step back into the MLB after not playing all 2019? Madrigal/Robert were promoted late in the season to AAA, it would be pretty reasonable to say the organization wanted to see how they perform early in 2020 before calling them up to the MLB. Sox own words could come back to bite them on this one. If he was truly ready for the big leagues and here to stay, then what other ready for the big leagues starter is spending 2 months in AAA? Plenty of big leaguers get hurt and don't spend months in the minors to gain a year of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, raBBit said: Speak for yourself. I want the team to be prudent. I want to win as many games as possibles for as long as a period of possible. Madrigal wins the team a lot more games with 162 games in 2027 than he does with 13 games in 2020. This. Its a no brainer. Its also not even worth discussing, because barring offseason extensions, there is a 0% either one of Robert or Madrigal are in the majors until the 2027 season is secured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: That would be pretty tough to defend something so obvious in a grievance. The dude has pitched 14 major league innings. He is owed/guaranteed nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Sox own words could come back to bite them on this one. If he was truly ready for the big leagues and here to stay, then what other ready for the big leagues starter is spending 2 months in AAA? Plenty of big leaguers get hurt and don't spend months in the minors to gain a year of control. Kopech tossed 14 MLB innings before going down with injury, hardly enough to say he's clearly proven to be MLB ready. He has not faced professional hitters since Sept 2018 either, perfectly reasonable for the Sox to bring him back slowly and monitor his innings by having him throw a month or two in AAA to see where he is at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: That would be pretty tough to defend something so obvious in a grievance. The only obvious one is Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, steveno89 said: Kopech tossed 14 MLB innings before going down with injury, hardly enough to say he's clearly proven to be MLB ready. He has not faced professional hitters since Sept 2018 either, perfectly reasonable for the Sox to bring him back slowly and monitor his innings by having him throw a month or two in AAA to see where he is at. Yeah, but the White Sox said he was here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: The dude has pitched 14 major league innings. He is owed/guaranteed nothing. Any one of them you can theoretically make the case. All three at once defies credibility. Though so did the Bryant situation and there likely won't be any consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yeah, but the White Sox said he was here to stay. Yah, well, things change when you get reconstructive elbow surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Yah, well, things change when you get reconstructive elbow surgery. Sure, but the Sox have said he's 100% healthy and ready to go as well. I understand the argument they would make, and it may hold up for all I know because Bryant may even lose his Grievance - that's the favorite right now - but the Sox need to be careful with these decisions going forward as baseball is clearly at an impasse between the union and the owners on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yeah, but the White Sox said he was here to stay. What player is ever brought up and management says "Well we expect him to suck and go back down in a week". You could certainly argue that you wish a prize prospect, coming back after being out over a year, you want to limit innings and limit his exposure to pitching in 30-40 degree weather. Look at my Kopech plan post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 There’s no doubt the Sox should keep playing the system and leave all 3 in the minors to gain an extra year of control. Now whether the system is completely fair for the players or not is a whole different discussion...but then again, that’s the players’ responsibility to fight for their best interest in the CBA. Im sure there will be a fight over this subject in the next negotiations coming up soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Yeah, but the White Sox said he was here to stay. Surgery is a justifiable reason to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 35 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Sure, but the Sox have said he's 100% healthy and ready to go as well. I understand the argument they would make, and it may hold up for all I know because Bryant may even lose his Grievance - that's the favorite right now - but the Sox need to be careful with these decisions going forward as baseball is clearly at an impasse between the union and the owners on this topic. Zero chance Kopech would win a grievance against the Sox coming back from TJS, not pitching at all in 2019 and only having 14 MLB innings to his name. He should be kept in AAA for a bit regardless of health to build his arm back up facing hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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