Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

[Balta1701]

Just now, bmags said:

What am I missing, I only have them at ~$85 currently (give or take weirdness around Abreu's signing bonus)

Add $5.7 million for Mazara and then just under $10 million for the minimum-salary guys (Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer, Fry, etc). 

[DaGame]

3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

He's a white guy that runs into walls. Sox fans eat that shit up. 

Why bring up the color of his skin? Like it has anything to do with any of this?

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But this deal sets up the perfect Mazara and Engel platoon, shouldn't your defense of this trade carry over to excitement about the platoon? Against lefties Engel is a better hitter than Mazara and he's a defensive upgrade. 

I said what I said 

[BackDoorBreach]

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I don’t see why they wouldn’t face 90% positive matchups throughout the year...especially with the new 3 batter rule for pitchers. 
Whether or not Engel keeps up his very small sample size split vs LH is fair. Leury on the other hand, does have good career splits vs LH

I just think based on matchups, injuries, rest, innings, RPs, score, Ricky...a platoon of Mazara/Engle are going to be in bad matchup a lot more than 10% of the time.  Just too many variables in real life.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Add $5.7 million for Mazara and then just under $10 million for the minimum-salary guys (Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer, Fry, etc). 

I already had that.

$25 mill projected tenders

$29.8 mill signed players (Abreu, yonder, eloy, tim anderson, kelvin herrera)

18.3 million Yas

I had 8.5 for unsigned guys, but even at 10 that puts you at 83 pre mazara, add 5.7 and you are at 88

[soxfan49]

29 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Mazara is a replacement level player.

Who is a better player next year

Mazara 

Or

Castellanos/Puig/Ozuna

That doesn't mean Mazara has a 0% chance of succeeding, does it? If he plays adequate defense and has another .785 OPS year, isn't that ok?

The obvious answer is the latter. 

The question, though, is are they going to win the WS next year? 

The obvious answer is no.

So then the question is, who's the better player in 2021? And suddenly the answer isn't so crystal clear.

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My issue is...unless they make moves they don't want to make, they are not going to ever be a championship level team.

Remember this - in Theo Epstein's 4th season as Cubs GM, his team won 96 games and was in an NLCS game 7. In Jeff Luhnow's 4th season, the Astros won 85 games and lost in the Wild Card round. Neither of them had the advantage of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trade hauls to help them start off.

This is the 4th season after the rebuild. If they aren't a wild card team,  then they are vastly underperforming the Cubs and Astros. 

Are they making the kind of moves right now that will turn them into a wild card contender? No, this is a rebuilding team move. It could work out great, but it's definitely a rebuilding team move - save money, get a little upside. 

The Sox could definitely win 85 games next year.Does that get them into the playoffs? I have no clue. Just because they're underperforming the Astros doesn't necessarily mean this thing is failing. They are the measuring stick for every rebuild from now and eternity.

Edited December 11, 2019 by soxfan49

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Add $5.7 million for Mazara and then just under $10 million for the minimum-salary guys (Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer, Fry, etc). 

This isn't correct. Grandal, Abreu, Herrera, McCann, Anderson and Jimenez adds up to $51 million. Colome, Mazara, Rodon, Leury and Marshall is roughly $25 million more. Then add in the the minimum salary guys. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't correct. Grandal, Abreu, Herrera, McCann, Anderson and Jimenez adds up to $51 million. Colome, Mazara, Rodon, Leury and Marshall is roughly $25 million more. Then add in the the minimum salary guys. 

All right, so a couple pitching additions other than Ryu/Bum/Price leaves them at a $110 million payroll this year. Looks even cheaper.

[Moan4Yoan]

5 minutes ago, DaGame2584 said:

Why bring up the color of his skin? Like it has anything to do with any of this?

Very strange comment.  I assume he is referring to Rowand but Sox fans liked Rowand because he was a pretty good player on offense and defense for a couple seasons.  I personally don’t like Engel or Mazara because they are simply bad players.

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

What am I missing, I only have them at ~$85 currently (give or take weirdness around Abreu's signing bonus)

Sox are at $86M today with all guaranteed contracts including Mazara and other arb guys at their estimates and 15 guys making $600k.

This counts Abreu at the $12.6M, so with the signing bonus spread amongst the three years.  

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/

[BackDoorBreach]

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

The obvious answer is the latter. 

The question, though, is are they going to win the WS next year? 

The obvious answer is no.

So then the question is, who's the better player in 2021? And suddenly the answer isn't so crystal clear.

The Sox could definitely win 85 games next year.Does that get them into the playoffs? I have no clue. Just because they're underperforming the Astros doesn't necessarily mean this thing is failing. They are the measuring stick for every rebuild from now and eternity.

I don't think them winning the World Series next year has anything to do with trading for a replacement level player over signing an actual MLB player. Mazara was a non-tender candidate before we traded for him, and still is.

 

Meanwhile, the obvious answer is still players that have put up much more WAR in 1 year than Mazaras career.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sox are at $86M today with all guaranteed contracts including Mazara and other arb guys at their estimates and 15 guys making $600k.

This counts Abreu at the $12.6M, so with the signing bonus spread amongst the three years.  

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/

Nice, my math finally wasn't that far off.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Nope.  I wouldn’t bet on any one guy.  They all have issues that could easily prevent them from being major leaguers.

Which one do you think will be a legitimate productive major league outfielder right now?

I'm not sure at this point. Mazara gives them a decent option to see if any of them take the next step. The point being they should spend their resources on pitching and look at other means to improve an already good looking lineup.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

After sleeping the trade off...this is where I am at. In a platoon situation...this is a great use of funds and current talent. Engel can spell Eloy in the field as well and ultimately Leury becomes the super utility guy. Outside of spending a bunch on Castellanos, this COULD work. But, they MUST sign one of RYU, Bum or Keuchel if this is the path they chose, plus another pitching move also. This trade does remind me a bit of Podsednik though...giving a possibly talented outfielder a real chance to reach a better potential. 

Can we stop pretending that Adam Engel is an 840 OPS player vs lefties? Sure, last year in 80 at bats he was. In his three years of big league time, he has a 679 OPS vs lefties compared to a .567 vs righties. Adam Engel isn't suddenly an 840 OPS player.

[Moan4Yoan]

Just now, ptatc said:

I'm not sure at this point. Mazara gives them a decent option to see if any of them take the next step. The point being they should spend their resources on pitching and look at other means to improve an already good looking lineup.

I still think they should have done better than Mazara but I agree with you there.

If they don’t add a couple legit starting pitching options and some relief help, this offseason will be a failure.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't think them winning the World Series next year has anything to do with trading for a replacement level player over signing an actual MLB player. Mazara was a non-tender candidate before we traded for him, and still is.

 

Meanwhile, the obvious answer is still players that have put up much more WAR in 1 year than Mazaras career.

The AI in OOTP 20 on regular settings wouldn't have offered anything more than an arb eligible 30/35 veteran (40 man fodder) and a ball of bags..  Maybe Hahn should find his level of GM through video games.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

All right, so a couple pitching additions other than Ryu/Bum/Price leaves them at a $110 million payroll this year. Looks even cheaper.

Yep. I'm with you on that. The payroll should be in the $130 million range. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Can we stop pretending that Adam Engel is an 840 OPS player vs lefties? Sure, last year in 80 at bats he was. In his three years of big league time, he has a 679 OPS vs lefties compared to a .567 vs righties. Adam Engel isn't suddenly an 840 OPS player.

even if he was an ideal platoon guy what in the world makes anybody think Ricky is the guy to utilize  strict platoon?  Come on.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Scott Podsednik was 2nd in the rookie of the year award voting in 2003 with a 43/53 in stolen bases and an .379 OBP/.822 OPS. 

Last three years, Mazara is .655 vs lefties compared to Engels .679. Not much difference there.

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

even if he was an ideal platoon guy what in the world makes anybody think Ricky is the guy to utilize  strict platoon?  Come on.

True.  Ricky gonna Ricky.

[Steve9347]

39 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My issue is...unless they make moves they don't want to make, they are not going to ever be a championship level team.

Remember this - in Theo Epstein's 4th season as Cubs GM, his team won 96 games and was in an NLCS game 7. In Jeff Luhnow's 4th season, the Astros won 85 games and lost in the Wild Card round. Neither of them had the advantage of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trade hauls to help them start off.

This is the 4th season after the rebuild. If they aren't a wild card team,  then they are vastly underperforming the Cubs and Astros. 

Are they making the kind of moves right now that will turn them into a wild card contender? No, this is a rebuilding team move. It could work out great, but it's definitely a rebuilding team move - save money, get a little upside. 

I mean this is what Reinsdorf teams do. See the Bulls. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Yep. I'm with you on that. The payroll should be in the $130 million range. 

Which barring something surprising like signed Rendon, is pretty tough to reach at this point. Ryu for $20M, Porcello/Wood for $10-12M, and bench bat for $3M gets you to $120M give or take a mill. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Add $5.7 million for Mazara and then just under $10 million for the minimum-salary guys (Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer, Fry, etc). 

The minimum is like 550k, no? They don't have 20 minimum player salaries on their roster.

I'll throw their salaries into a sheet and see where they are with their currently constructed roster.

[ptatc]

24 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

What's the sox payroll for 2020?  Whats the league average.  They just spent the last couple of years banking coin on their payroll.  If we are at such a low payroll and opening up the books spooks the front office.  Then we are not competing anyway and this is all eyewash.  Lets stop pretending that this is the Marlins.  They have money.  

They do but is spending it on the current FA the best for the team. Personally, I'm not a fan of either Castellanos or ozuna. Both have very significant flaws and just because they are the best options this year doesnt mean they are the best for the team long term.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The minimum is like 550k, no? They don't have 20 minimum player salaries on their roster.

I'll throw their salaries into a sheet and see where they are with their currently constructed roster.

My post above gives you all the info.  Its $86M as of today.  Some pre-arb guys make more than others, but $550K is the min.  $600k is safe assumption for average, maybe a tad low.  $9-$10M range for pre-arb guys is accurate.