asindc Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: Well if any other teams were convinced Mazara is on the verge of a breakout (you know teams with much better scouting than Chicago) how come nobody was willing to pony up more than their equivalent of Steele Walker? Crickets. Because he sucks. Because nobody else wanted to take this guy off Texas' hands for any assets other than cash and A ball relievers. Well if any other teams were convinced Wheeler is on the verge of a breakout (you know teams with much better scouting than Chicago) how come nobody was willing to pony up more than $125M? Crickets. Because he sucks. Because nobody else wanted to pay this guy that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Want to watch FO Shills come out? (Outside of Greg69420) Yeah but they needlessly did because they don't have any real analytics pressure, and like Ricky, they like the gut moves. There was absolutely no reason to give this guy a 2 year 32 million dollar extension aside from being a really fucking bad front office. For a front office that cries poor so often, I sure wish they would have cried poor with Abreu and simply stuck with the qualifying offer for 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, asindc said: Well if any other teams were convinced Wheeler is on the verge of a breakout (you know teams with much better scouting than Chicago) how come nobody was willing to pony up more than $125M? Crickets. Because he sucks. Because nobody else wanted to pay this guy that much. work on your analogies before retaking the SAT. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, bighurt574 said: Rankings aside, it sort of depends how the other org views Vaughn, doesn't it? Rutherford may have been highly ranked at the time of the Kahnle trade but he was also having a pretty underwhelming season at A ball. Other teams may give you a slight premium if they really really like the player but they're not going to go vastly past what the market says a player is worth, at least most of the time. If they do that, then they can't trade or flip the player to restore the value they traded away. Robbie Ray is only under control for 1 more year, that's too little to give up Vaughn. Matthew Boyd from the Tigers or Caleb Smith from the Marlins have multiple years of control, but they're not all that great. Syndergaard with 2 years of control might be possible but the Mets have 0 need for a 1b. I'm open to other options. I don't see anything more fitting likely available right now - mid rotation guys with mutliple years of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, asindc said: Well if any other teams were convinced Wheeler is on the verge of a breakout (you know teams with much better scouting than Chicago) how come nobody was willing to pony up more than $125M? Crickets. Because he sucks. Because nobody else wanted to pay this guy that much. The Phillies signed Wheeler for $118 million. The Sox supposedly offered him $120 million. Wheeler sucks. Great logic. Either both the Phillies and Sox are stupid or Wheeler doesn’t suck. However, I will choose a different option — that your post is idiotic. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, DirtySox said: I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said: At $10 million for the next 4 years, it's gonna cost Vaughn and probably two SP (Dunning, Lopez, Steivers), and an OF Prospect or two (Basabe, Adolfo) or maybe Collins. It's 3 or 4 for 1, but seriously, it leaves you with money for future add ons once you see what this crew can do: You'r realllly thin in the minors now but you have a window and cash...... If I were the Rays, there's 0 chance I do that deal. Look at what they got for Archer - 2 guys who were former top 20 prospects who had lost some luster but had way more talent than that. That's for a guy who was not as good as Snell and far closer to FA, and under a situation where the pitching FA market was more under control - Snell's value as a cost controlled guy has gone up as well. If you want Snell, and you're not willing to talk about Robert, it's Madrigal, Vaughn, and 2 other good pieces from your list - I'd probably ask for Collins and Dunning. You could also probably get me to do Vaughn and Cease with a couple of lower pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Other teams may give you a slight premium if they really really like the player but they're not going to go vastly past what the market says a player is worth, at least most of the time. If they do that, then they can't trade or flip the player to restore the value they traded away. Robbie Ray is only under control for 1 more year, that's too little to give up Vaughn. Matthew Boyd from the Tigers or Caleb Smith from the Marlins have multiple years of control, but they're not all that great. Syndergaard with 2 years of control might be possible but the Mets have 0 need for a 1b. I'm open to other options. I don't see anything more fitting likely available right now - mid rotation guys with mutliple years of control. I haven't canvassed for options, but if Vaughn doesn't have significantly more trade value at the moment than Rutherford did when we acquired him (when the bloom had already come off a bit, after going later in the first round in the first place), we're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: I wanted Bleday because he actually made sense and was not ranked much different than Vaughn at the time. I got chastized for saying we had 5 or 6 DH/1Bs on the roster already. Are you one the same posters that were ripping on the Madrigal pick when he struggled early on? Was by far the hitter in the draft and a GREAT PICK!!! PERIOD!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, bighurt574 said: I haven't canvassed for options, but if Vaughn doesn't have significantly more trade value at the moment than Rutherford did when we acquired him (when the bloom had already come off a bit, after going later in the first round in the first place), we're in trouble. The shine hasn't come off Vaughn like it had with Rutherford, but Vaughn's value is depressed because he's limited in positions. He'd be a fit for the Mets in a Syndergaard trade, but the Mets have Alonso at 1b so that only works as a 3-way deal, and those are rare enough it's barely worth thinking about. Any team that thinks they can fill 1b fairy cheaply will not give up a premium talent for that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asindc Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: The Phillies signed Wheeler for $118 million. The Sox supposedly offered him $120 million. Wheeler sucks. Great logic. Either both the Phillies and Sox are stupid or Wheeler doesn’t suck. However, I will choose a different option — that your post is idiotic. You have missed the point entirely. Not surprising. Edited December 11, 2019 by asindc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, DirtySox said: I do find it odd that Bilek was critical - in a sarcastic way - of the Ozuna report because it wasn't accurate but has rabbit been right about a single off-season move the past couple seasons? Not a shot at the guy, as I think no one really knows what a team will do because teams aren't transparent and honest with these things... I just think you shouldn't throw stones from your glass house. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, asindc said: You have missed the point entirely. Not surprising. No, I didn’t. Your analogy sucked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: The Phillies signed Wheeler for $118 million. The Sox supposedly offered him $120 million. Wheeler sucks. Great logic. Either both the Phillies and Sox are stupid or Wheeler doesn’t suck. However, I will choose a different option — that your post is idiotic. The White Sox offered him 125 million; if you're going to be over the top negative with this team at least be accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If I were the Rays, there's 0 chance I do that deal. Look at what they got for Archer - 2 guys who were former top 20 prospects who had lost some luster but had way more talent than that. That's for a guy who was not as good as Snell and far closer to FA, and under a situation where the pitching FA market was more under control - Snell's value as a cost controlled guy has gone up as well. If you want Snell, and you're not willing to talk about Robert, it's Madrigal, Vaughn, and 2 other good pieces from your list - I'd probably ask for Collins and Dunning. You could also probably get me to do Vaughn and Cease with a couple of lower pieces. This is the best window of Rays contention that they'll have for quite some time. They're not moving Snell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Steele ranked #12 on Rangers' prospect list. He was #6 here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I do find it odd that Bilek was critical - in a sarcastic way - of the Ozuna report because it wasn't accurate but has rabbit been right about a single off-season move the past couple seasons? Not a shot at the guy, as I think no one really knows what a team will do because teams aren't transparent and honest with these things... I just think you shouldn't throw stones from your glass house. It sure doesn’t seem like anyone has any sources ever since the Joc Pederson trade fell through last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanJoeCrede Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 OMG, Just stop! I will go on record as saying I love the Mazara trade ! After losing out on Wheeler, this is exactly the kind of move that needed to made. Deep breath, regroup, win a trade, it's still only Dec 11th! With Wheeler, all of us started squinting and seeing a path to contention this year. Without Wheeler, it becomes much more about stepping back and realizing we have a TON of shit that would have to go perfectly to win the division. Gio, Yoan, TA all continuing to improve or at least not regress. Cease and Lopez both taking a giant step forward. Kopech and Rodon coming back at a high level from injury. Robert and Madrigal stepping right in and performing at a high level immediately. The relief corps continuing to outperform projections. Acquiring plus starting pitching. Is it really that horrible of a thing to add Mazara to all the question marks for 2020? I for one prefer it to literally WASTING the money on a RF if any one of these things dont go our way. A million times more likely that several things in this list dont go our way and we finish slightly better than .500 than trading for Mazara costs us a playoff berth. HAHN WON THIS TRADE. PERIOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I do find it odd that Bilek was critical - in a sarcastic way - of the Ozuna report because it wasn't accurate but has rabbit been right about a single off-season move the past couple seasons? Not a shot at the guy, as I think no one really knows what a team will do because teams aren't transparent and honest with these things... I just think you shouldn't throw stones from your glass house. I do know a couple of years ago he was right about everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, oldsox said: Steele ranked #12 on Rangers' prospect list. He was #6 here. White Sox system will be bottom five when Robert, Madrigal and Kopech graduate this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The White Sox offered him 125 million; if you're going to be over the top negative with this team at least be accurate. I wasn’t being negative at all. I remember seeing the Sox offer being “over $120 million” in several articles. So it was $125 million. Congrats, you caught my error in the amount of money the Sox did not actually spend. Edited December 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asindc Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: No, I didn’t. Your analogy sucked. None of your responses indicate an understanding. If you want a different analogy, just look at the acquisitions of Grandal, Robert, Giolito, Moncada, or Jimenez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I do know a couple of years ago he was right about everything. Yeah, I believe he had a solid source as others did. The past two years though, he's been like everyone else. I didn't want to look as if it was an attack on the guy - it's not - I just thought he was a bit off putting with his criticism of other reporters who trusted a source and got it wrong. I would love to know why Ozuna's family thought he was signing with the White Sox; that one still baffles me. I just think at this point, trusting what anyone says about this team is pointless. Even if there's a 1% chance the Sox sign Rendon, you will hear nothing about their involvement until the end of it. Edited December 11, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) Moved to another thread Edited December 11, 2019 by hi8is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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