Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

[Moan4Yoan]

5 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Good ole Bruce, firing up the 56k modem again. 

This one made me laugh.  Bruce with the anti-scoop.  Thanks.  ?

[Cashman]

A lot of you are getting upset over this, and I am not sure I understand. The Sox just gave up a guy, with the upside of maybe a 4th OF, for a kid that will give you 20ish HRs, and about 70 RBI in RF. And they are very close in age as well. I just see upside with this guy, and really not giving away the farm.

[Sarava]

9 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

We'll see I guess. I feel dejected this morning. It feels like it's setting in that this ownership has no intention of really going for it to win a World Series with this rebuild.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Sarava

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Cashman said:

A lot of you are getting upset over this, and I am not sure I understand. The Sox just gave up a guy, with the upside of maybe a 4th OF, for a kid that will give you 20ish HRs, and about 70 RBI in RF. And they are very close in age as well. I just see upside with this guy, and really not giving away the farm.

No offense but this has been the rationale for so many bad moves the sox have made.

[Moan4Yoan]

11 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

Anyone expecting another big signing on the offensive side is going to be sorely disappointed.  Castellanos is not happening.  At best, they will add a cheap right-handed hitting bench player to complement Mazara.  Someone like Souza as fathom has already suggested.  The offense is done outside of this.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[caulfield12]

Just now, Cashman said:

A lot of you are getting upset over this, and I am not sure I understand. The Sox just gave up a guy, with the upside of maybe a 4th OF, for a kid that will give you 20ish HRs, and about 70 RBI in RF. And they are very close in age as well. I just see upside with this guy, and really not giving away the farm.

Why do we continually draft these “refined college hitters” in the first 3-5 rounds if their upside is always limited?

Since we’re dismissing Walker, it practically is guaranteeing he’ll one day be a big league regular with the help of coaching in another organization.

And there were at least five players who could have doubled or tripled that fWAR at no trade cost...not counting Ozuna and Castellanos, since those guys are obvious.

Finally, there’s yet one more avenue closed off on trading for a starting pitcher.

[bmags]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Why do we continually draft these “refined college hitters” in the first 3-5 rounds if their upside is always limited?

Since we’re dismissing Walker, it practically is guaranteeing he’ll one day be a big league regular with the help of coaching in another organization.

And there were at least five players who could have doubled or tripled that fWAR at no trade cost...not counting Ozuna and Castellanos, since those guys are obvious.

Finally, there’s yet one more avenue closed off on trading for a starting pitcher.

Ha, this is a good point, though also why I hated the Walker pick. He was a fine guy but that draft was stocked in HS pitching and they went overslot for him

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Anyone expecting another big signing on the offensive side is going to be disappointed.  Castellanos is not happening.  At best, they will add a cheap right-handed hitting bench player to complement Mazara.  Someone like Souza as fathom has already suggested.

Why not just use Leury...?   They’re not going to give Souza the opportunity he will receive to start on other teams in the bottom 8-10 in MLB.  And they’re not going to pay him like a projected starter.

We should have just stuck Villar, Dickerson or Gennett out there if this was their best reactionary plan.

[Cashman]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why do we continually draft these “refined college hitters” in the first 3-5 rounds if their upside is always limited?

Since we’re dismissing Walker, it practically is guaranteeing he’ll one day be a big league regular with the help of coaching in another organization.

And there were at least five players who could have doubled or tripled that fWAR at no trade cost...not counting Ozuna and Castellanos, since those guys are obvious.

Finally, there’s yet one more avenue closed off on trading for a starting pitcher.

I am not saying, I would rather them trade for a guy than sign on. I would of rather them signed Ozuna. I am saying, Steele Walker is nothing special. Why do they draft them? Because they are terrible at scouting?

[The Sir]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why do we continually draft these “refined college hitters” in the first 3-5 rounds if their upside is always limited?

Since we’re dismissing Walker, it practically is guaranteeing he’ll one day be a big league regular with the help of coaching in another organization.

And there were at least five players who could have doubled or tripled that fWAR at no trade cost...not counting Ozuna and Castellanos, since those guys are obvious.

Finally, there’s yet one more avenue closed off on trading for a starting pitcher.

Walker was a second round pick. Since 2000, the highest bWAR from a second round pick for this franchise was Ryan Sweeney. If they were the perfect prospect, they wouldn’t be going in the second round.

[Moan4Yoan]

14 minutes ago, Cashman said:

A lot of you are getting upset over this, and I am not sure I understand. The Sox just gave up a guy, with the upside of maybe a 4th OF, for a kid that will give you 20ish HRs, and about 70 RBI in RF. And they are very close in age as well. I just see upside with this guy, and really not giving away the farm.

This move is so old school Kenny and the White Sox that it’s not even funny.  We have no money to spend (or don’t want to spend any) so let’s outsmart the entire MLB, acquire an outfielder who is so far simply all unreached potential, and hope and pray that he pans out for us.  The Sox window of contention is starting now and they were supposed to have plenty of money to spend (“The money will be spent.”).  There are most definitely better outfielders available than Mazara that would have only cost money.  Hahn should be making moves for sure-thing type players, not absolute fliers.  This cheap move is a slap in the face to Sox fans who have waited throughout this rebuild for the Sox to nut up, play with the big boys, and finally spend the money they haven’t throughout the course of losing year after year during this rebuild.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, The Sir said:

Walker was a second round pick. Since 2000, the highest bWAR from a second round pick for this franchise was Ryan Sweeney. If they were the perfect prospect, they wouldn’t be going in the second round.

By this rationale, we should never worry about preserving any draft pick besides Top Ten in the first round...

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Anyone expecting another big signing on the offensive side is going to be sorely disappointed.  Castellanos is not happening.  At best, they will add a cheap right-handed hitting bench player to complement Mazara.  Someone like Souza as fathom has already suggested.  The offense is done outside of this.

I agree.  With the additions of Grandal, Robert, Madrigal and Mazara, I think their satisfied with the lineup.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This move is so old school Kenny and the White Sox that it’s not even funny.  We have no money to spend (or don’t want to spend any) so let’s outsmart the entire MLB, acquire an outfielder who is so far simply all unreached potential, and hope and pray that he pans out for us.  The Sox window of contention is now and they were supposed to have plenty of money to spend (“The money will be spent.”).  There are most definitely better outfielders available than Mazara that would have only cost money.  Hahn should be making moves for sure-thing type players, not absolute fliers.  This cheap move is a slap in the face to Sox fans who have waited throughout this rebuild for the Sox to nut up, play with the big boys, and finally spend the money they haven’t throughout the course of losing during the rebuild.

KW evil incarnate.

Edited December 11, 2019 by ptatc

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This move is so old school Kenny and the White Sox that it’s not even funny.  We have no money to spend (or don’t want to spend any) so let’s outsmart the entire MLB, acquire an outfielder who is so far simply all unreached potential, and hope and pray that he pans out for us.  The Sox window of contention is now and they were supposed to have plenty of money to spend (“The money will be spent.”).  There are most definitely better outfielders available than Mazara that would have only cost money.  Hahn should be making moves for sure-thing type players, not absolute fliers.  This cheap move is a slap in the face to Sox fans who have waited throughout this rebuild for the Sox to nut up, play with the big boys, and finally spend the money they haven’t throughout the course of losing during the rebuild.

Assuming the contract of Alex Rios would be the move of a decade with this front office.   Because we desperately need someone who will be reliably productive when needed.   Rios did that every year but one, which Greg775 will never forgive him for to this day.

[JoshPR]

Soxtalk special. b**** if they do b**** if they don't. How can anybody be mad about this. Got him for nothing, if he sucks let him walk.  Not sure why people here think Boston was gonna let go of Benintendi. And if so it would be cheap. This is a low risk high reward move. We should be acustom to this shit with this team. You know they ain't forking out the big bucks. Plus I seem to recall a few years back a lot of people on this board drooling for mazara.... Sheesh relax people

[The Sir]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

By this rationale, we should never worry about preserving any draft pick besides Top Ten in the first round...

You’re missing the point. You wanted to know why these guys have limited ceilings. If there’s a guy with unlimited upside, like if Robert had been in the draft, he’s gone in the first few picks. A guy who’s still there at 45 or whatever, well there’s a reason for that.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I don’t hate the trade. I hate not spending money. 

[bmags]

Just now, The Sir said:

You’re missing the point. You wanted to know why these guys have limited ceilings. If there’s a guy with unlimited upside, like if Robert had been in the draft, he’s gone in the first few picks. A guy who’s still there at 45 or whatever, well there’s a reason for that.

I mean people are misdrafted all the time. If you do re-drafts each year it doesn't line up perfectly to the draft order. Hell in 2013 the best player is I believe Bellinger in the 5th round.

[Soxnfins]

26 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Let’s not freak out guys. Markin has been predicting two moves at the meetings. Let’s see if Hahn has something up his sleeves. A big pitching acquisition or a Castellanos signing would make this ok but if this is there “move” this winter, they deserve all the criticism they can get 

I’m as big as an advocate for Castellanos as anyone, but I think that dream is dead man. Scrap heap time for us, unless we screw with Keuchel. 

[Moan4Yoan]

5 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Soxtalk special. b**** if they do b**** if they don't. How can anybody be mad about this. Got him for nothing, if he sucks let him walk.  Not sure why people here think Boston was gonna let go of Benintendi. And if so it would be cheap. This is a low risk high reward move. We should be acustom to this shit with this team. You know they ain't forking out the big bucks. Plus I seem to recall a few years back a lot of people on this board drooling for mazara.... Sheesh relax people

We already know Mazara’s production — less than 1 WAR in each year of his career.  The Sox are praying that Mazara somehow booms from his consistent mediocrity for 4 years straight.  The Sox supposedly have money to spend and could have and should have done better than this.  We shouldn’t have to hope for these flier-type players to pan out.  Spend some freaking money.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Bigsoxhurt35 said:

I don’t hate the trade. I hate not spending money. 

I hate not spending money on a single really good player, i'd be fine with these moves if it was coupled with a lucrative contract for a great player that everyone is like "they overpaid him, oh that will bite them".

That's what I wanted. I could go without an offseason of dallas keuchel and castellanos. To be those are fine moves, they are good players, but they effectively end the rebuild as they don't have much flexibility for an elite player beyond it.

Ah well, nevertheless

[The Sir]

1 minute ago, JoshPR said:

Soxtalk special. b**** if they do b**** if they don't. How can anybody be mad about this. Got him for nothing, if he sucks let him walk.  Not sure why people here think Boston was gonna let go of Benintendi. And if so it would be cheap. This is a low risk high reward move. We should be acustom to this shit with this team. You know they ain't forking out the big bucks. Plus I seem to recall a few years back a lot of people on this board drooling for mazara.... Sheesh relax people

Thank you. I’d like to add the irony that people here see ABSURD potential in the likes of Basabe and Adolfo, who are barely younger than Mazara but with far worse results at far lower levels. If either of those guys puts up a .786 OPS in MLB ever, I’ll donate one of my testicles to science.

Hell, I joked about it last night before the trade was done, but this board’s weird hatred of Mazara was actually making people defend the reputation of Blake Rutherford. I’ve wondered for years why people were so down on Blake and what it would take to get people to treat him as a legit prospect, and apparently the answer was an Avi-esque 24 y/o OF from Texas.

[GreenSox]

Giving good prospects for bad veterans.  Walker was #7 on Future Sox.
The Brewers sent Seattle their #25ish prospect for Narvaez who had more WAR last year than Mazara has had in his entire career.
That's what Rick Hahn brings to the bargaining table.

Edited December 11, 2019 by GreenSox

[Sarava]

6 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

Soxtalk special. b**** if they do b**** if they don't. How can anybody be mad about this. Got him for nothing, if he sucks let him walk.  Not sure why people here think Boston was gonna let go of Benintendi. And if so it would be cheap. This is a low risk high reward move. We should be acustom to this shit with this team. You know they ain't forking out the big bucks. Plus I seem to recall a few years back a lot of people on this board drooling for mazara.... Sheesh relax people

It's not about how cheap we got him. I don't think many (if any) care about losing Steele Walker. It's about them once again choosing the cheap route to fill a hole, as opposed to spending money on an impact player. And there are still a couple impact players out there that could of been signed to play RF. This is the same old White Sox way of doing business, which has led to this long ass playoff drought that we're in.