Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

[South Side Fireworks Man]

37 minutes ago, Baron said:

If you listen to Chuck's new podcast Evan Grant is on there. They talked about how disappointed Texas was in his range and how he wasn't getting to the balls that he absolutely should have been. This goes in with his bad DRS numbers. I have no idea why the White Sox would want to test this next year. 

White Sox do not value defense much.  It's hard to imagine them ever winning a World Series with a defense of Anderson at SS, Abreu at 1B Eloy in LF and Mazara in RF.

[steveno89]

4 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

This is not about Walkers value versus Mazara.  Its about Mazara vs Ozuna vs Castellanos.   If money was no object does Eno park Mazara out there instead of the two other options.  

I have calmed down a bit after being pretty disappointed last night about the Mazara trade. 

We essentially gave up nothing in Walker, who turns 24 in 2020 and has yet to play above high-A ball, for a look at Mazara who still is seen to have considerable potential. 

It's not a sexy trade, but I will acknowledge there is upside if the Sox can figure out how to get Mazara to the next level. Realistically this should be a platoon situation where he only faces RHP. 

Hope more moves for impact talent are coming. 

[Soxbadger]

8 hours ago, SoxAce said:

I posted it already Badge, not sure if you saw. His gap power is very interesting to me.

Yeah i did see it, but I was on my phone and too lazy to type a lot. I am just really perplexed by the outrage. Had they traded a young pitcher, Id agree that isnt the best move. But they traded a young of for a young of. Basically Texas wanted to dump salary and took a flier in return. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's more pitch selection that's his issue. He swings at a lot of pitches hard to drive. He can hit the shit out of the ball but swings at a bunch of crap that lowers his avg. exit velocity and LA.

Yeah, his numbers were likely driven down this year because he swung at more pitches out of the zone and also made more contact on those pitches - leading to a lesser quality of contact on those pitches. In general, and this is the weirdest part of his profile, his zone contact rate has gone down 4 years in a row while his out of zone contact rate has gone up 4 years in a row. That's a really weird profile. 

[TaylorStSox]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Yeah i did see it, but I was on my phone and too lazy to type a lot. I am just really perplexed by the outrage. Had they traded a young pitcher, Id agree that isnt the best move. But they traded a young of for a young of. Basically Texas wanted to dump salary and took a flier in return. 

 

It's just Yoan's brigade of haters using this as another excuse to talk shit about things that aren't even related to the trade. It's not the trade, they're just mad and they're going to cry about it at every turn. 

[FelixGordon27]

I understand why a lot of White Sox Nation is up in arms over this deal - they're afraid it's another small market move of mediocrity... But let's all relax and let the offseason play out.

It's a small, low-risk move to fill a hole in the short-term that should allow more resources to be allocated toward pitching. Isn't the lineup pretty set over the next 3-6 years without a big $$ right fielder? CF Robert/3B Moncada/LF Jimenez/1B Vaughn/DH Abreu/C Grandal/SS Anderson/2B Madrigal ... I am good with that lineup and would rather $15M per go toward a SP or multiple bullpen arms. 

Of course they need to spend the $ and we need to hold ownership accountable, but rushing to spend the $ just because you can = losing mentality.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

It's just Yoan's brigade of haters using this as another excuse to talk shit about things that aren't even related to the trade. It's not the trade, they're just mad and they're going to cry about it at every turn. 

I'll be upset if they don't spend some more money. They don't need to spend it all if they love Springer or something for next year, but there's no point in acquiring a bunch of financial flexibility with years of failure only to not spend the money. This team was running 130 million dollar payrolls 14 years ago; it's embarrassing that they aren't near that number yet because in reality they should blow past that in the next few years.

[chetkincaid]

1 minute ago, FelixGordon27 said:

I understand why a lot of White Sox Nation is up in arms over this deal - they're afraid it's another small market move of mediocrity... But let's all relax and let the offseason play out.

It's a small, low-risk move to fill a hole in the short-term that should allow more resources to be allocated toward pitching. Isn't the lineup pretty set over the next 3-6 years without a big $$ right fielder? CF Robert/3B Moncada/LF Jimenez/1B Vaughn/DH Abreu/C Grandal/SS Anderson/2B Madrigal ... I am good with that lineup and would rather $15M per go toward a SP or multiple bullpen arms. 

Of course they need to spend the $ and we need to hold ownership accountable, but rushing to spend the $ just because you can = losing mentality.

 

I think the White Sox should have waited until after the winter meetings to announce this trade. There wouldn't have been as much spotlight on it.

[harfman77]

Its a good trade, they get a guy who is one year older and three levels higher.  Mazara is still only 24 and has loads of potential, and a change of scenery may be just what he needs to tap into it.  

It also is relatively low cost roll of the dice and allows the Sox to take on a bad contract to get some more value.  This does not preclude the Sox from doing a Betts/Price trade.  Mazara/Eloy/others can rotate through LF and DH as Castellanos and Ozuna are still options as well for RF. If Mazara doesn't hit, you are out Steele Walker who was pretty borderline to be a MLB contributor and you non-tender Mazara next winter. Its a low risk high reward move that in no way stops the Sox from adding through the trade market. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, FelixGordon27 said:

I understand why a lot of White Sox Nation is up in arms over this deal - they're afraid it's another small market move of mediocrity... But let's all relax and let the offseason play out.

It's a small, low-risk move to fill a hole in the short-term that should allow more resources to be allocated toward pitching. Isn't the lineup pretty set over the next 3-6 years without a big $$ right fielder? CF Robert/3B Moncada/LF Jimenez/1B Vaughn/DH Abreu/C Grandal/SS Anderson/2B Madrigal ... I am good with that lineup and would rather $15M per go toward a SP or multiple bullpen arms. 

Of course they need to spend the $ and we need to hold ownership accountable, but rushing to spend the $ just because you can = losing mentality.

 

The Sox could certainly do worse for the 6th/7th hitter in their lineup.

[TaylorStSox]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'll be upset if they don't spend some more money. They don't need to spend it all if they love Springer or something for next year, but there's no point in acquiring a bunch of financial flexibility with years of failure only to not spend the money. This team was running 130 million dollar payrolls 14 years ago; it's embarrassing that they aren't near that number yet because in reality they should blow past that in the next few years.

I get that. I don't see much value in spending money for the sake of it. Overall, I'm still happy with the direction of the team and I'm more excited about next than I've been for a long time. I want them to add a veteran SP, but I don't want them to add garbage just to show they're willing to spend money. Unfortunately, after Wheeler, there's not much left. I'd probably overpay for Ryu, if it's a reasonable overpay. 

[Orlando]

 

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Sox could certainly do worse for the 6th/7th hitter in their lineup.

I had to remind myself this morning that the winter meetings are not the entire offseason and to breathe.

Adding Mazara is not a bad move in and of itself, heck we might be able to squeeze some production out of him in a platoon/bench role? 

This rebuild badly needs a major roll of the dice though. Mazara should not stand in the way of making impovements by any means. 

[BackDoorBreach]

Why are people concerned about saving 11 or 12 million dollars in AAV while sacrificing over 5x the production lol.

The last report that came out was the Tigers and Marlins were interested.  Both of those teams are in a deep rebuild.  And this genius GM finally outbid someone.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I get that. I don't see much value in spending money for the sake of it. Overall, I'm still happy with the direction of the team and I'm more excited about next than I've been for a long time. I want them to add a veteran SP, but I don't want them to add garbage just to show they're willing to spend money. Unfortunately, after Wheeler, there's not much left. I'd probably overpay for Ryu, if it's a reasonable overpay. 

I agree 100%; I don't want them spending just because they said they would even though they lost out on their prized guy (Wheeler). That said, Wheeler couldn't have been the only move they wanted to make, and they should be able to go above their valuation on their second favorite starter this off-season to acquire him. If they want to take on salary and move Madrigal and sign REndon, at least that's a plan too. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Why are people concerned about saving 11 or 12 million dollars in AAV while sacrificing over 5x the production lol.

The last report that came out was the Tigers and Marlins were interested.  Both of those teams are in a deep rebuild.  And this genius GM finally outbid someone.

No one can possibly argue that Nick Castellanos is worth 8 times more than Nomar Mazara IMO. 

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Why are people concerned about saving 11 or 12 million dollars in AAV while sacrificing over 5x the production lol.

The last report that came out was the Tigers and Marlins were interested.  Both of those teams are in a deep rebuild.  And this genius GM finally outbid someone.

What is this post in reference to? 

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I agree 100%; I don't want them spending just because they said they would even though they lost out on their prized guy (Wheeler). That said, Wheeler couldn't have been the only move they wanted to make, and they should be able to go above their valuation on their second favorite starter this off-season to acquire him. If they want to take on salary and move Madrigal and sign REndon, at least that's a plan too. 

Are you worried about their ability to score runs next year? I'm certainly not. I think, as constructed, they're going to be a good offensive team. I expect regression from Tim, but expect Eloy and Moncada to put up monster years. 

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No one can possibly argue that Nick Castellanos is worth 8 times more than Nomar Mazara IMO. 

I said 5 times.  We like fWAR here right?

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Sox could certainly do worse for the 6th/7th hitter in their lineup.

Exactly. He is only here for a 2 year stop gap until one of the prospects take the RF spot.

[BackDoorBreach]

3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

What is this post in reference to? 

The posters above you referencing saving like 10 million dollars for 5x less value?

[2Deep]

As of now the line-up looks something like this after the 1st few weeks of the season:

Anderson SS

Moncada 3B

Abreu 1B

Grandal C

Eloy LF

Mazara RF

Robert CF

DH???

Madrigal 2B

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

Are you worried about their ability to score runs next year? I'm certainly not. I think, as constructed, they're going to be a good offensive team. I expect regression from Tim, but expect Eloy and Moncada to put up monster years. 

Call me crazy, but I think we see another step forward for Tim Anderson this year.

Tim was able to make a huge change last year to his profile, and it propelled him forward. The guy has improved so much, and I just don't think he's done growing.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Tim with a WAR around 5 next year. I think his defense takes a huge step forward, and I wouldn't be shocked to see better at bats out of him in general knowing that his main focus this off-season is controlled aggression. He learned to find his pitch and attack it, now he needs to shrink that down and work counts a little more. I have at on of faith in Anderson; I know its superlative, but his bat speed and hands are just other wordly. 

[BigHurt3515]

9 hours ago, Chisox378 said:

Maybe Gallo means he is stupid hitter. I don't care how many HR he hits if he only walks 30 times he is a selfish hitter, this is a Jim Thome pick. We need smart unselfish hitters. Not boom or bust guys that hit 20 doubles and can't draw a walk to save a fly. 

Tim Anderson walked 15 times last year in 50 more PAs, do you want to get rid of him? Eloy had the same amount of walks has Nomar and he is 23, want to get rid of him?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

25 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Do you know his launch angle compared to other LH power hitters? Personally, I want my big LH hitters to turn and burn and launch moon shots when they're not walking. I like the uppercut. 

I do not want that.  These guys are big and strong enough that they don't have to try to hit  home runs to hit home runs.  Consistentlty drive the baseball and it will go over the fence.  Be dangerous.