Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

[bmags]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I get it, but if you don't see the difference between 2020 and 2021, I don't know what to tell ya.  

But ya, I would prefer a better player in RF in 2020 than Mazara - we're on the same page there.  

2020 is for OF what 2019 was for pitchers, which means we'll try to focus on Pederson and then get out bid and trade prospects for like, mike foltenewicz or something.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Okay, so why are we trading for a prospect to play RF in 2020 when our entire core is up?

Because pieces like Robert, madrigal and kopech most likely wont quite be eady to compete this year.

[Timmy U]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And when they pass on Betts, Springer, and Bauer next offseason,

(Singing) "One of these things is not like the others.  One of these things just doesn't belong."

[southsideirish71]

14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It all depends on if the teams wins. If they dont start winning, it will be a new FO in 2022. If they win then it really doesnt matter.

They are not replacing the front office.  Kenny and Hahn are here for the long run.  Just they will chance philosophies.  

[tray]

The reason his highlight videos are relevant is because they are actual major league games from last season and  some still  believe in talent evaluation with the eye test for a young player. You can see his size and his athleticism, his swing and his defense. 

Geezus Cryst, the guy came into the majors at 20 . He won't be 25 until when? April  2020?

 Instead of looking at Mazara's age 20-243 year old years in the majors as invaluable experience, some use it to conclude that he will never be nothin'.

I give this trade an "A". You can't do much better than getting a potentially good player for an A ball player that looks like he will be a career minor leaguer.

 

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I get it, but if you don't see the difference between 2020 and 2021, I don't know what to tell ya.  

But ya, I would prefer a better player in RF in 2020 than Mazara - we're on the same page there.  

2020 should have been a year where this team is competitive for the AL Central based on a rebuild that started 3 full offseasons ago with a huge load of talent brought in. This is season 4 after the tear down. 

In season 4 after Theo Epstein was hired with the Cubs, his team won 96 games and was a game away from the World Series, and that's without the advantage of the guys who we got in trades. 

If we aren't a 90+ win team this year, we're well behind the Cubs' pace.

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Because pieces like Robert, madrigal and kopech most likely wont quite be eady to compete this year.

So, we trade for replacement level players?  That's not an argument.  

Edited December 11, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[FloydBannister1983]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Could be but I don't think so.

JR never wanted to tear down a team and totally rebuild. I think he very reluctantly agreed to it. If it isn't successful after 5 years, I think he will, be pissed and get a new FO.

Like he’s pissed with Paxson and fired him after his second or third failed rebuild with the Bulls?

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Exactly. He is only here for a 2 year stop gap until one of the prospects take the RF spot.

What OF prospect do we have that is surely a major league starting RF cuz I don’t see one?

Edited December 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

(Singing) "One of these things is not like the others.  One of these things just doesn't belong."

Bauer has a good chance of being the best pitcher on the free agent market next season. That's why he's on that list.

[chetkincaid]

Just now, southsideirish71 said:

They are not replacing the front office.  Kenny and Hahn are here for the long run.  Just they will chance philosophies.  

The most Reinsdorf would do is bring in someone like Dave Dombrowski to be a "consultant", like he brought in Doug Collins to the Bulls.

[TaylorStSox]

4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Yes, that it.  ?  It’s not that people are wondering why the hell the Sox settled for a flawed outfielder when better outfielders are currently still available.  You can’t address this because you have no answer.

Sure, I can. They like Mazara, st the price, a lot more than Castellanos and Ozuna. I'm sure you like Castellanos though. You are a Cubs fan after all. 

[Eminor3rd]

38 minutes ago, oneofthemikes said:

I started digging around a bit looking at the early career of Marcell Ozuna and Nomar Mazara (the hope being that maybe Menechino can help Mazara the way he did in the 5th year of Ozuna's career). Can someone smarter than me explain why the WAR values (specifically oWAR) are so much different between Ozuna's 2014 and Mazara's 2019?

2014 Ozuna (3.5 oWAR) - 269/317/455 with 23 HR and 41 BB

2019 Mazara (1.0 oWAR) - 268/318/469 with 19 HR and 28 BB (24 HR and 36 BB over a full season)

What am I missing? Sorry to derail the conversation, but it bothered me

Without analyzing each player at all, the offensive environment in 2019 was drastically different than 2014. 

[Moan4Yoan]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

Sure, I can. They like Mazara, st the price, a lot more than Castellanos and Ozuna. I'm sure you like Castellanos though. You are a Cubs fan after all. 

I prefer productive players, even if a larger price is attached.  You and the Sox front office apparently prefer to dumpster dive for trash (i.e. inexpensive and unproductive players) and pray that they pan out.

[BackDoorBreach]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

Sure, I can. They like Mazara, st the price, a lot more than Castellanos and Ozuna. I'm sure you like Castellanos though. You are a Cubs fan after all. 

Yeah, it's really a mystery why Jerry LOVES Mazara at 5 million a year over All-Star caliber players.

Since you keep shilling for the FO, who makes us better next year?  Mazara or Castellanos/Ozuna/Puig/Dickerson/ any number of other RF's on garbage teams above replacement level?

[JuliusO1274]

I can't believe how many White Sox fans are defending this awful move. They have such low standards. This team has so much money to sign a decent RF available and instead they do this. This move is only tolerable as a last minute move when all the others fail.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Yeah, it's really a mystery why Jerry LOVES Mazara at 5 million a year over All-Star caliber players.

Since you keep shilling for the FO, who makes us better next year?  Mazara or Castellanos/Ozuna/Puig/Dickerson/ any number of other RF's on garbage teams above replacement level?

I mean, when Dickerson was 26 he was a .6 WAR player, when he was 27 he was a 1.1 WAR season.

Guys get better.

[Moan4Yoan]

16 minutes ago, tray said:

Stop being  like whiny beyacth cubfans.  This was a fair trade and one that most here wold have made . Something for (almost) nothing. 

Sure, but that’s the problem.  Which player is something and which one is almost nothing?  Both Walker and Mazara could fit the bill for almost nothings.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I prefer productive players, even if a larger price is attached.  You and the Sox front office apparently prefer to dumpster dive for trash (i.e. inexpensive and unproductive players) and pray that they pan out.

It's not a good philosophy to buy the sparkling object if it doesnt fit what you need. Better to be patient and find the best option. Spend now, SPEND NOW.

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said:

I can't believe how many White Sox fans are defending this awful move. They have such low standards. This team has so much money to sign a decent RF available and instead they do this. This move is only tolerable as a last minute move when all the others fail.

Indeed, so true.  Years of a pathetic front office with Kenny and Hahn acquiring cheap bums have made people think Mazara is a good acquisition when the Sox are trying to compete.  The expectations are so ridiculously low, it’s hilarious.  Yankees fans would shit all over this trade and wonder why the hell their GM is acquiring such a crappy player.

[EvilJester99]

I’m not going to completely freak out over this move until I see what else the Sox do the rest of the off season. 

[Wisebri224]

I definitely don't have all of the answers but I'm getting confused by this never ending circle we keep running through.  Spend on pitching.  Top pitching option turns us down so now all other starting pitching is too expensive.  Consequently, we then should have money to spend on RF, but that is also too expensive, so we will trade for a guy with "upside" who hits FA in two years.  Well, saving money this year means we'll be in on Mookie and Springer.  Oh but next year we have to start looking at extensions for Gio, Moncada, etc. so there isn't quite enough for those guys.  Does the circle ever end somewhere good or is the never ending story, just a new chapter each year.  I want this to be successful, but it seems as though the message changes every 5 minutes.....

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

It's not a good philosophy to buy the sparkling object if it doesnt fit what you need. Better to be patient and find the best option. Spend now, SPEND NOW.

The dusty hideous object named Mazara doesn’t fit our needs either, other than being cheap.

[TaylorStSox]

4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Yeah, it's really a mystery why Jerry LOVES Mazara at 5 million a year over All-Star caliber players.

Since you keep shilling for the FO, who makes us better next year?  Mazara or Castellanos/Ozuna/Puig/Dickerson/ any number of other RF's on garbage teams above replacement level?

Castellanos and Ozuna are all star calibre players? Again, Castellanos has put up 10 WAR over 3700 plate appearances. He's a fine hitter, but he's no loss. 

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I mean, when Dickerson was 26 he was a .6 WAR player, when he was 27 he was a 1.1 WAR season.

Guys get better.

That's not the point or the question I asked.  The Sox aren't tanking any more and their window just opened.  Castellanos was garbage his first year and has been worth 5.8 fWAR the last 2 years.  We aren't in a position to fuck around with "untapped potential" vs actual MLB production.