Sox and Sawks to see if the Price is Right

[ThunderStruck]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

We don't suck. Grandal signed here and if a pitcher doesn't want to pitch to one of the best pitch framers in the game that's his loss. Fuck Wheeler more so than fuck the Sox.

Nobody is saying the sox suck. What we are saying is that star players obviously dont want to play with the sox. Ownership needs to do something to change that. Yes winning will help but until then they need to start overpaying. 

[smellysox]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:03 PM, ThunderStruck said:

Hey guys new member but long time stalker.  I have been a sox fan all my life.

I know it looks like the sox wont pony up and pay any decent starters but do you guys honestly see any good in trading for David Price?  I feel we are getting an arm with a ton of miles and nowhere near the talent the sox need to kick start things. Reminds me of James Shields. 

Welcome to Soxtalk! I agree with this assessment. Not really thrilled with trading for Price. As someone posted earlier this is Hahn's fault. Now with every aging pitcher with a huge salary on the trading block, clubs expect a Tatis Jr. In return. As if the salary dump isn't enough! The price would have to be right.  No pun intended. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by smellysox

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, ThunderStruck said:

I get the thought that Benintendi was a top prospect and he could figure it out like Moncada did. I just hate the idea of picking up Price and that contract. Not sure why sox dont go to Ryu and Keuchel and over pay for them. At least those two would anchor the staff for the next few years. Would take alot of pressure off of Gio and Kopech. 

Rick is probably waiting for Ryu & Keuchel to figure out they are not going to cash in big just because the top 3 guys did.  A watched pot never boils...have a little patience and Rick will get er done.

[Y2Jimmy0]

10 hours ago, Orlando said:

It’s really obvious Price gets traded. If you had to guess right now, what team and what package?

I'm guessing he gets traded to the White Sox for one of the OF prospects and a minor league reliever. 

[ThunderStruck]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Rick is probably waiting for Ryu & Keuchel to figure out they are not going to cash in big just because the top 3 guys did.  A watched pot never boils...have a little patience and Rick will get er done

I hope so. Just gets frustrating watching the Sox's biggest needs get taken off the board one by one. I honestly feel with two decent pitchers added on the sox should take the division. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Ugh, that would ruin most of the point of doing it, lol.

Disagree here. I'd much rather have David Price at like 3 years and $60-$65 million than sign Keuchel or Ryu for what they're going to end up with now on the open market. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Disagree here. I'd much rather have David Price at like 3 years and $60-$65 million than sign Keuchel or Ryu for what they're going to end up with now on the open market. 

I don’t really understand the hate for David Price by a lot of Sox fans. He was pretty good last year before he got hurt and I trust him a hell of a lot more than a guy like Bumgarner moving forward.

[ThunderStruck]

8 minutes ago, smellysox said:

Welcome to Soxtalk

Thanks smellysox! Looking forward to talking more sox!!

[NWINFan]

7 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Rick is probably waiting for Ryu & Keuchel to figure out they are not going to cash in big just because the top 3 guys did.  A watched pot never boils...have a little patience and Rick will get er done.

I now have little patience and I will believe this when it happens, not one second before.

[2Deep]

11 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I don’t really understand the hate for David Price by a lot of Sox fans. He was pretty good last year before he got hurt and I trust him a hell of a lot more than a guy like Bumgarner moving forward.

I would respectfully disagree with you here.  Price is a aging pitcher who has been injury prone.  I would much rather have MadBum

[centerfieldsixers]

6 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

I would respectfully disagree with you here.  Price is a aging pitcher who has been injury prone.  I would much rather have MadBum

i would too but MadBaum is staying in the national league

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, ThunderStruck said:

Nobody is saying the sox suck. What we are saying is that star players obviously dont want to play with the sox. Ownership needs to do something to change that. Yes winning will help but until then they need to start overpaying. 

Then why are we calling it the we suck tax ?

[EloyJenkins]

So traderumors just posted a story about Red Sox getting under luxury tax. They don't want to attach prospects to Price but said.. "They are, however, willing to pay down Price’s contract to get it closer to $20MM per year rather than the current $32MM". What is consensus for Price at 3/60. Imo that is solid value, helps hit the window and shouldn't cost too much at all prospect wise. I would honestly take that over Keuchel and the rotation starts looking a lot better.

Edited December 14, 2019 by EloyJenkins

[smellysox]

28 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

So traderumors just posted a story about Red Sox getting under luxury tax. They don't want to attach prospects to Price but said.. "They are, however, willing to pay down Price’s contract to get it closer to $20MM per year rather than the current $32MM". What is consensus for Price at 3/60. Imo that is solid value, helps hit the window and shouldn't cost too much at all prospect wise. I would honestly take that over Keuchel and the rotation starts looking a lot better.

I'm good with this as long as they get off the Vaughn and Madrigal return. I mean I feel neither one should go anywhere. I'm nervous about Dunning or Steaver going too. We're helping them out! They are the ones with the financial issues. Send them  Pinkington or a Flores and I would pick up $20 million/yr for the rest of his contract.

[hi8is]

Mets?

[SoCalChiSox]

3/60 is not enough. Fangraphs just estimated his 3 year WAR at about 6 wins. There's a decent amount of 2 win pitchers out there. They also estimated on the market he'd prolly get a 1 year deal or maybe 2/30.

Why would we pay double that?

The estimate is -60m in value. So 3/60 only gets you halfway there. Add Benintendi and there's a deal to be made with BOS also eating 30m on Price.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/13/2019 at 6:40 AM, NWINFan said:

I now have little patience and I will believe this when it happens, not one second before.

Yep that's just more pie in the sky wishful thinking. Boras is 2 of those guys agents and they will get very close to what they are seeking whatever that number is no matter how long it takes.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

3/60 is not enough. Fangraphs just estimated his 3 year WAR at about 6 wins. There's a decent amount of 2 win pitchers out there. They also estimated on the market he'd prolly get a 1 year deal or maybe 2/30.

Why would we pay double that?

The estimate is -60m in value. So 3/60 only gets you halfway there. Add Benintendi and there's a deal to be made with BOS also eating 30m on Price.

Bloom is trying to get his price now. Give it a few weeks or a month to come down. Right now he's just looking for a fish to take the bait. Hopefully no one does until he gets realistic. Boston has been quiet this off season because of the luxury tax. Let them keep sitting on the sidelines or trade Betts if they want to save money. Let's see how that goes over with their fans.

Edited December 14, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[poppysox]

23 minutes ago, smellysox said:

I'm good with this as long as they get off the Vaughn and Madrigal return. I mean I feel neither one should go anywhere. I'm nervous about Dunning or Steaver going too. We're helping them out! They are the ones with the financial issues. Send them  Pinkington or a Flores and I would pick up $20 million/yr for the rest of his contract.

20 million per is inline with his probable value.  They need salary relief and we can offer that.  Prospects shouldn't enter the equation.

[Moan4Yoan]

On 12/13/2019 at 6:08 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well they made the best offer and it's very possible he just wanted to play in Philly. We have no idea if his agent came back to the Sox and said look you have the high offer but he's going to Philly and even offering more won't change his mind or said the opposite and told them just a little more and you have him. Without that info I can't condemn the Sox. If we truly are glass half full guys I can't blame any team if that happens . I think it's unreasonable for most to say just offer the most money and when we do turn around and now say there's a "we suck" tax. What's next another tax on top of that called the " you're not the Cubs tax " ?

We don't suck. Grandal signed here and if a pitcher doesn't want to pitch to one of the best pitch framers in the game that's his loss. Fuck Wheeler more so than fuck the Sox.

Why?  He took what he saw as the best deal for him and his family.  If the Sox would have sweetened their offer a bit more, I’m sure he would’ve been in our rotation next season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Why?  He took what he saw as the best deal for him and his family.  If the Sox would have sweetened their offer a bit more, I’m sure he would’ve been in our rotation next season.

So you want to pay the we suck tax and the we suck a lot tax on top of it ? If they truly offered $7M more they tried paying the we suck tax . At what point do you decide whats too much to pay? I saw one post that said well we didn't get him at $7M more but we would have got him at $12M more. If we had paid $12M more and didn't get him what's next ? Well we should have paid him $20M more ?

[Moan4Yoan]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So you want to pay the we suck tax and the we suck a lot tax on top of it ? If they truly offered $7M more they tried paying the we suck tax . At what point do you decide whats too much to pay? I saw one post that said well we didn't get him at $7M more but we would have got him at $12M more. If we had paid $12M more and didn't get him what's next ? Well we should have paid him $20M more ?

I don’t know how much more it would have cost to convince Wheeler to sign here but we both know there was an amount that would have swayed him.

And once we see what Bumgarner, Ryu, and Keuchel sign for, I have a feeling the Sox will be kicking themselves for not overpaying Wheeler.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Once we see what Bumgarner, Ryu, and Keuchel sign for, I have a feeling the Sox will be kicking themselves for not overpaying Wheeler.

Maybe so but it's unfair to say they should have overpaid more when they already tried over paying. At some point you just have to draw the line. I don't generally like to give the FO too much credit but I think in the Wheeler situation they made a great offer and it was rejected.  Saying they should have offered more is just  a big ole 20/20 hindsight. If you made any post before he was signed saying the Sox should pay more than what he actually signed for please show me and I will consider you a visionary .

Edited December 14, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
typo as usual

[Moan4Yoan]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe so but it's unfair to say they should have overpaid more when they already tried over paying. At some point you just have to draw the line. I don't generally like to give the FO too much credit but I think in the Wheeler situation they made a great offer and it was rejected.  Saying they should have offered more is just  a big ole 20/20 hindsight. If you made any post before he was signed saying the Sox should pay more than what he actually signed for please show me and I will consider you a visionary .

It depends on how much they would have had to overpay, and we don’t know what that amount would have been.

If it was $10 to $15 million more instead of $7?  Do it.  The Sox have wasted many more millions on far worse players.  Look no further than last offseason.  About $42 million wasted.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It depends on how much they would have had to overpay, and we don’t know what that amount would have been.

If it was $10 to $15 million more instead of $7?  Do it.  The Sox have wasted many more millions on far worse players.  Look no further than last offseason.

It's still 20/20 hindsight and reactionary to not getting him. There's no guaranteed he would've signed with the Sox even then. You are only saying that based on how the pitching market looks now. He was the 1st good pitcher to be signed and they made the best offer. Any way you try to spin it isn't going to make you're argument any stronger when you have the advantage of now knowing how much is being paid for starting pitching and the Sox didn't .