Sox and Sawks to see if the Price is Right

[Wisebri224]

If it were just Price and we roll with Mazara/Engel or whatever in right, if Boston chips in 35 million that makes Price a $20 million pitcher for 3 years. In this market, I take that. I also then go get Keuchel or Bum and call it good. If your kids end up great, you trade one in a year or two but now you have a solid rotation even now

[bschmaranz]

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

If it were just Price and we roll with Mazara/Engel or whatever in right, if Boston chips in 35 million that makes Price a $20 million pitcher for 3 years. In this market, I take that. I also then go get Keuchel or Bum and call it good. If your kids end up great, you trade one in a year or two but now you have a solid rotation even now

Yeah if Price is the major pitching upgrade, we're fucked.

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, Lillian said:

Absolutely correct. If there is another team, dumb enough to bail out Boston, and agree to give the Red Sox any meaningful prospects, let them be the suckers. This only makes sense, if we get someone extra of value, and don't have to give up anybody who matters.

100% Correct!

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, mqr said:

I mean Mazara I guess?

I’d assume Collins as Mazara would likely move to DH.

[Wisebri224]

1 minute ago, bschmaranz said:

Yeah if Price is the major pitching upgrade, we're fucked.

I don’t think there’s a better option out there. Dude had 10 years of sub 4 era. Last year he struggled but seriously add two decent starters to our young guys and it’s not bad. Just my two cents.

[caulfield12]

Price and Benintendi for Collins is the only way it makes sense... gambling on Price alone with money coming back isn't worth it.  Mazara to platoon DH. 

[Wisebri224]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Price and Benintendi for Collins is the only way it makes sense... gambling on Price alone with money coming back isn't worth it.  Mazara to platoon DH. 

So looking at 10 million this year on a RF platoon looking toward 15-20 million in the next two years is a better gamble than Price at that cost? Maybe but I’m not 100% sure. Given Benitendi and Mazara splitting times 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Wisebri224
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[southsideirish71]

Well remember.  We can afford to absorb this contract.  I hope to god we don't "save money" by kicking in a better prospect.    

[Lillian]

If they acquired Benintendi, I'd use the following line up, vs RHP:

2B  Madrigal (If he's successful and getting on base and stealing - if not, he bats 2ND, as a good hit and run guy and TA hits leadoff and steals bases)

3B  Moncada  LH

DH  Eloy

1B  Abreu

C    Grandal   LH (McCann gets the playing time vs. LHP)

SS  Anderson

LF  Benintendi  LH

CF  Robert (Just as a rookie - ultimately much higher in the order)

RF  Mazara  LH (He sits against LHP - Benintendi plays RF & Eloy goes to LF)

Collins has no place on this roster - Next year, he could take over for McCann, if he is not resigned.

[bschmaranz]

7 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

I don’t think there’s a better option out there. Dude had 10 years of sub 4 era. Last year he struggled but seriously add two decent starters to our young guys and it’s not bad. Just my two cents.

Have you looked up his elbow problems?  They're not gonna get better.  I bet you he's only gonna be good for 130-140 innings.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

Have you looked up his elbow problems?  They're not gonna get better.  I bet you he's only gonna be good for 130-140 innings.

His injury last year was a cyst on the TFCC in his wrist after getting hit by a line drive.

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

So looking at 10 million this year on a RF platoon looking toward 15-20 million in the next two years is a better gamble than Price at that cost? Maybe but I’m not 100% sure. Given Benitendi and Mazara splitting times 

Benintendi would play everyday in hopes of capturing his 4 fWAR peak...although he's a bit out of position in RF due to his arm being average.   More or less, it would be similar to having Ozuna out there and maybe a notch or two above Castellanos.  None of those three are really ideally suited for RF play, but the smaller nature of the outfield and not having to worry about the CF gap and playing balls off the ball and off the side should definitely help Benintendi to feel more relaxed, IMO.  Plus he's a Midwest kid, so he would feel comfortable in Cleveland/Detroit and his family would be able to see him play more often.

Mazara would be the LH side of a DH platoon...not sure who the other hitter is or whether it's more of a rotation of RH hitters that need rest.   Could easily be Leury.

Edited December 13, 2019 by caulfield12

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who is Benintendi replacing in this scenario?  You should be including him with Wheeler if you’re actually to evaluate fairly.

I figure you would mostly have Benintendi and Robert in the outfield and Eloy and Mazara could cycle between the outfield and DH.

Benintendi’s overall WAR would essentially be replacing our WAR from the expected DH position (whatever that would have been), along with a combination of Eloy’s and Mazara’s negative WAR on defense.  ?

That would improve both the offense and the defense.  And who knows, it wouldn’t be crazy to think Price could match or exceed Wheeler’s WAR on his own if he pitches more like his 2018 self rather than last year.

If Price and Benintendi produce more like their 2018 seasons, you might get 8 WAR from them combined.

I don’t see any free agents worth throwing money at right now that can provide this kind of upside in one move.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[SCCWS]

 

As I posted earlier, every media type has another take from their "source"

Feinsand notes that the Red Sox have no desire to attach a desirable young player such as Andrew Benintendi to Price in order to simply shed the remainder of his contract. The Athletic’s Chad Jennings offers a similar sentiment (subscription required). “I don’t think we’d ever want to rule anything out,” chief baseball office Chaim Bloom of parting with prospects to help facilitate a Price trade (quote via Jennings). “But so much of what we’re always going to be trying to accomplish, but certainly now, is to make sure we have as strong a farm system as possible.”

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/david-price-trade-rumors-red-sox-padres-wil-myerss.html

[Wisebri224]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Benintendi would play everyday in hopes of capturing his 4 fWAR peak...although he's a bit out of position in RF due to his arm being average.   More or less, it would be similar to having Ozuna out there and maybe a notch or two above Castellanos.  None of those three are really ideally suited for RF play, but the smaller nature of the outfield and not having to worry about the CF gap and playing balls off the ball and off the side should definitely help Benintendi to feel more relaxed, IMO.  Plus he's a Midwest kid, so he would feel comfortable in Cleveland/Detroit and his family would be able to see him play more often.

Mazara would be the LH side of a DH platoon...not sure who the other hitter is or whether it's more of a rotation of RH hitters that need rest.   Could easily be Leury.

Makes all the sense in the world. I still think vs many people on this board a Price that gives me 160-180 innings of 4 era ball along with the AB upside is worthy of Collins and maybe a lesser OF prospect. I still would hope for 20-25 million since that would give him AAV close to Bum.

[BackDoorBreach]

I don't really want to be penalized as a fan base by "spending" the "Machado money" on David Price's shitty contract unless we are getting Benintendi.  If we aren't getting a good controllable player out of it,  the deal is stupid and doesn't make much sense.  

[Lillian]

24 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

 

As I posted earlier, every media type has another take from their "source"

Feinsand notes that the Red Sox have no desire to attach a desirable young player such as Andrew Benintendi to Price in order to simply shed the remainder of his contract. The Athletic’s Chad Jennings offers a similar sentiment (subscription required). “I don’t think we’d ever want to rule anything out,” chief baseball office Chaim Bloom of parting with prospects to help facilitate a Price trade (quote via Jennings). “But so much of what we’re always going to be trying to accomplish, but certainly now, is to make sure we have as strong a farm system as possible.”

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/david-price-trade-rumors-red-sox-padres-wil-myerss.html

Of course, the Red Sox "have no desire" to attach a desirable young player. News flash for Boston; No team has a desire to bail you out of an albatross contract, just as a giant favor. If you want to off load salary, make a reasonable offer. If not, "go pound sand," as someone here said earlier. Enjoy paying your 34 year old pitcher, $32 Million per year, for the next 3 years. If they thought that they were going to "desire" to get out of the last 3 years of that deal, they should have insisted upon a team opt out, when they wrote up the contract. Seriously, I still suspect that it's just posturing. Bloom was brought in to get that payroll under control. I think he eventually gives in, if teams can be patient.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Lillian

[Moan4Yoan]

10 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't really want to be penalized as a fan base by "spending" the "Machado money" on David Price's shitty contract unless we are getting Benintendi.  If we aren't getting a good controllable player out of it,  the deal is stupid and doesn't make much sense.  

Honestly, acquiring Price doesn’t make much sense for any team if the Red Sox don’t include a guy like Benintendi so I’m not sure what kind of BS their GM is trying to sell.  Why wouldn’t a team just sign one of the free agent lefties (Bumgarner, Ryu, or Keuchel) for less money?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[iWiN4PreP]

I'm WAY on board with Beni. I would love to root for him. I would certainly be interested in this deal if Boston comes down to reality AND it would make this offseason pretty damn successful if you ask me (and I am a HATER of what Hahn has been doing in this offseasons).

Do I think it will happen? Eh, 8% chance. Boston *should* do something about their horrid financial situation to make an attempt at keeping their star Betts, but will they?

[poppysox]

57 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

I don’t think there’s a better option out there. Dude had 10 years of sub 4 era. Last year he struggled but seriously add two decent starters to our young guys and it’s not bad. Just my two cents.

Probably a #3 starter at a #1 price tag.  If Boston wants salary relief they need to except the fact the pot needs to be sweetened by them.  Their pitcher is overvalued by approximately 50M.

[GGajewski18]

Outside of injury, Price still has been very good.  135, 123, and 113 ERA+ and very respectable FIPs in the AL.  I wouldn't mind him at all especially when Kuechel and Ryu might make 18-20 million per year.  If we can get Price and 20-25 million per year, sign me up.  

I think if the Sox do trade for him, it will be just for him.  If they add a kicker like Benintendi, I think Sox might have to part with a decent prospect, but not like Vaughn or Madrigal even though they'll probably ask for them.  

[whitesoxbrad]

20 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

Makes all the sense in the world. I still think vs many people on this board a Price that gives me 160-180 innings of 4 era ball along with the AB upside is worthy of Collins and maybe a lesser OF prospect. I still would hope for 20-25 million since that would give him AAV close to Bum.

I want nothing to do with price koo

[Wisebri224]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Probably a #3 starter at a #1 price tag.  If Boston wants salary relief they need to except the fact the pot needs to be sweetened by them.  Their pitcher is overvalued by approximately 50M.

David Price is now a sub 15 million pitcher with Cole Hamels getting 18 million? I don’t buy that. If everyone likes Bum, Ryu, or Keychel at 4-5 years I’m fine too. Just figured 3 years with some sweetener would be better:)

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Collins for Price and Benintendi and the Red Sox pay the final year of Price's contract minus league minimum.  Take it or leave it.

[scs787]

1 hour ago, bschmaranz said:

Yeah if Price is the major pitching upgrade, we're fucked.

Not necessarily. He was a stud last year before injury and was good the years before that. I think they can squeeze 2 more years of TOR type numbers. Hopefully in years 2/3( if not this year) Kopech and/or Cease live up to their potential to where Price is your 4 or 5 starter. 

 

Is there a chance it backfires? Absolutely. There's also a chance Wheeler in the AL is nothing more than a middle of the rotation guy that you way overpaid. Same for Ryu/Mad Bum.