bruni Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 While we are all still seething over the miss on Wheeler, the savvy clubs have been busy and productive grabbing plug and play 3/4/5 starters at (relatively) affordable rates. For all the madness over the contracts given to the big 2 plus even Wheeler, we've watched as Porcello (1/10), Lindbloom (3/9.125), Roark (2/24), Pineda (2/20) and Gibson (3/30) among others go to our rivals on relatively team-friendly deals that would have fit well with Uncle Jerry's mid-market budget mentality. It's past time to wake up, front office! Go get Alex Wood for 2/22, Miley for 2/24 or even Gio for 1/8 with an option for 9 in year 2 or a $1 buyout. And if, somehow the market for Dallas K. is softer than anticipated (highly unlikely), grab him too. We do not need to be trading away our premium minor league assets for SP. Quit spending Manny's money on 1st class plane tickets and let's get some reasonable pitching in here before the remaining viable options get snapped up. Otherwise a reunion with Nova becomes increasingly inevitable. Weigh in on which of the remaining options is most viable/attractive at this point... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Wacha to the Mets... was it really only $3 million or incentives also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Wacha to the Mets... was it really only $3 million or incentives also? I think there were alot of incentives attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Name Proj WAR Hyun-Jin Ryu 2.9 Dallas Keuchel 2.6 Hurt Madison Bumgarner 2.1 Gone Homer Bailey 1.6 Gio Gonzalez 1.5 Wade Miley 1.4 Iván Nova 1.3 Jhoulys Chacín 1.2 Alex Wood 1.1 Retired Edited December 13, 2019 by Hatchetman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Hill is out for roughly half the season... and Matt Moore isn't retired? Edited December 13, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Wacha to the Mets... was it really only $3 million or incentives also? $3M guaranteed $7M incentives. Could earn $10M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Holy crap, Brett Anderson pitched 176 innings last year? Isn't that guy's arm made of saltines? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Those are just the FA pitchers per Fangraphs. I don't know further particulars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisebri224 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Here's the dilemma. If what's going through Hahn's head is anything like what I see on this board from all of us, no wonder he's nervous to make a move. Flip through any one page in any thread and you will see: 1. Spend the money, but don't overpay on these bums! 2. Don't bail another team out 3. Don't trade anymore prospects unless you are getting a #2 or #3 that is cost controlled for 2-3 years and costs Collins or less. I could go on more. Hahn probably wants to even do more but is hearing Jerry or Kenny in his ear. I wouldn't want his job. I still would personally go some mix of the following: 1. Price if you can get the price down to about $20 million per or gain Benintendi. Little going back as far as prospects. Yes, Price had an injury issue last year but it seems to be good going in. You have a guy that before that basically gave you 200 IP per year and an ERA below 3.50. Yep, age is a concern, but again, find a resume like that on the market that is cheaper. We have money people. 2. One of the other BIG 3. I'm fine with any of them. I would go 4 years on any and anywhere from 70-90 million if that's what it took. You can't piecemeal reclamation projects for both of the last two remaining spots. One is fine but not both. 3. Get #1 and/or #2 above and (yep, I would consider doing both) then go get Wood, Nova, Teheran, Miley type that could go into long relief once the kids are ready. Do this if you don't want to spend $18-$20 million per on two pitchers (even though again you could since you can always move pitchers at trade deadlines if you have a surplus). I am now ready to be destroyed :). Carry on! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Holy crap I hadn't realized how barren the cupboard is. Beyond the extreme need for a guy like Kuechel, I don't understand the lack of urgency on the next tier. Just please for the love of god sign a Gio or Miley so you have options. What can the extra cost be to lock that up? $1-$3 million above market? Figure it out guys. The value of one of those guys over a Despaigne is monumental (well above their own WAR add) and can only enhance trade leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) I wholeheartedly agree with the premise of this thread. This offseason needed to be about pitching, pitching, pitching. Screw the Red Sox if they want to get assets back to dump a contract that they agreed to. If they want to get bailed out of a contract, I do not want the White Sox giving them any of our top prospects. Go spend some $$ on the remaining free agent pitchers before they are gone. Relatively short term deals are not going to hurt this rebuild...trading significant assets to get an expensive contract for an aging pitcher might. Edited December 13, 2019 by wegner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Even bringing back Nova would preferable to having Covey in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, wegner said: Go spend some $$ on the remaining free agent pitchers before they are gone. Relatively short term deals are not going to hurt this rebuild...trading significant assets to get an expensive contract for an aging pitcher might. If Wheeler was your guy, give him what he wanted to come here. Don't say "We had the best offer (by 1%)" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, daggins said: Even bringing back Nova would preferable to having Covey in the rotation. Those are 2 BAD options. We have to be better then this.........again I'm willing to let it play out before I start freaking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Hatchetman said: If Wheeler was your guy, give him what he wanted to come here. Don't say "We had the best offer (by 1%)" They did. He did not want to come here. Why can't we understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, daggins said: Even bringing back Nova would preferable to having Covey in the rotation. People are assuming Kopech will be good to go opening day. I think that would be a huge mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: People are assuming Kopech will be good to go opening day. I think that would be a huge mistake. He will be good to go opening day... in Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, 2Deep said: They did. He did not want to come here. Why can't we understand that. 1-2% more on an offer isn't going to get someone to move away from their home. If you want an employee, offer 10% more. Otherwise you really didn't want him that badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Of the three Tier C options, the only one I want is Keuchle because I wouldn't give up the draft pick. Sorry, not for that tier or that contract length. I want a guy who will be good for 4-5 years to sacrifice the pick, not a guy I am holding my breathe for his health or nose on the tail end of the deal. If I can't get a C, Miley at two years ok. After one of the above, my one year guy would be Gio as I said before to start at the beginning of year and then maybe piggy back with Kopech. My reclamation project, so one year with a team option, would be Taijuan Walker who did make it back to the mound at the end of the year. Until his medicals are in order, don't give Wood much of anything guaranteed, his back was toast last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: People are assuming Kopech will be good to go opening day. I think that would be a huge mistake. That's fine. They have 4 off days in Mar/April not counting rain/snowouts. They will only need a 5th starter for a couple games. Bring him up on May 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: That's fine. They have 4 off days in Mar/April not counting rain/snowouts. They will only need a 5th starter for a couple games. Bring him up on May 1. I think if you start him in AAA for a month, you might as well keep him there until you get the year of service back. I believe that would be late May/early June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: I think if you start him in AAA for a month, you might as well keep him there until you get the year of service back. I believe that would be late May/early June. With what we see as the cost of decent pitching, to not get the year back is crazy. Wonder if he looks great in spring training you could do a deal getting 1-2 free agent years covered and make it a non issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: That's fine. They have 4 off days in Mar/April not counting rain/snowouts. They will only need a 5th starter for a couple games. Bring him up on May 1. If you're using Mr. Offday as a starter you better not have anyone else in your rotation on an innings limit (Cease). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, BamaDoc said: With what we see as the cost of decent pitching, to not get the year back is crazy. Wonder if he looks great in spring training you could do a deal getting 1-2 free agent years covered and make it a non issue? Has anyone signed an extremely early 8 year extension like that with a pitcher (rather than a position player)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: 1-2% more on an offer isn't going to get someone to move away from their home. If you want an employee, offer 10% more. Otherwise you really didn't want him that badly. I run a corporation, this sounds great in theory. Ultimately you can't control if someone does not want to be somewhere. How many times have you heard from sports people that a said player will always take the most money..........in this case it didn't work for us. We offered the most money and I can't be mad at the FO for that. There are plenty other reasons to be mad. Edited December 13, 2019 by 2Deep 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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