JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 And I should add that this isn’t just an issue of paying free agents, it’s also an issue of drafting and player development. You can’t be constrained on both ends and expect to achieve “sustained success.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: If the team is unwilling/unable to pay premium free agents then they should trade the ones they were lucky enough to find in the trade market... it's an interesting concept to say the least. How do you think the Sox built “some” depth in the form of Moncada and Kopech? By trading Sale at peak value. Apply that concept now to Moncada and turn him into another two/three critical building blocks that align better with the pieces under control for the next 5+ years. Again, I’d have an awfully difficult time turning down a package of Lux, May and Gray. People called me crazy when I was advocating for trading Rodon when he was on a decent roll back in summer 2017. Hopefully we don’t get burned again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How do you think the Sox built “some” depth in the form of Moncada and Kopech? By trading Sale at peak value. Apply that concept now to Moncada and turn him into another two/three critical building blocks that align better with the pieces under control for the next 5+ years. Again, I’d have an awfully difficult time turning down a package of Lux, May and Gray. People called me crazy when I was advocating for trading Rodon when he was on a decent roll back in summer 2017. Hopefully we don’t get burned again. Trades have risk; the fact that they came out of three mega-deals with as many quality players as they did has a lot of luck involved. The more you do that, the more likely you are going to get some lemons. They traded Sale because they were rebuilding. Now their pieces are coming together and you want to start over. It's a dumb idea; if I can put it lightly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Trades have risk; the fact that they came out of three mega-deals with as many quality players as they did has a lot of luck involved. The more you do that, the more likely you are going to get some lemons. They traded Sale because they were rebuilding. Now their pieces are coming together and you want to start over. It's a dumb idea; if I can put it lightly. Best post in this thread. Bennett and his boys riling up SoxTalk with a moronic idea because they have nothing else to do. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said: Best post in this thread. Bennett and his boys riling up SoxTalk with a moronic idea because they have nothing else to do. Bennett Karoll? That guy is absolutely insufferable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Trades have risk; the fact that they came out of three mega-deals with as many quality players as they did has a lot of luck involved. The more you do that, the more likely you are going to get some lemons. They traded Sale because they were rebuilding. Now their pieces are coming together and you want to start over. It's a dumb idea; if I can put it lightly. You know what else is a dumb idea? Thinking you can contend in 2020 with this pitching staff (yes I know they are still going to add another couple scrap pieces but that doesn’t change the premise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 The rebuild has been fast tracked by Giolito’s, Moncada’s, Anderson’s and Eloys big jumps. The Sox still need a ton to go right to win the division. They aren’t one or two guys away just yet. Maybe at the deadline, after we see how well everyone is doing. Rebuilding, retooling isn’t and shouldn’t be happening now. As frustrating as it is, getting that elite starting pitcher right now probably won’t happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 38 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And I should add that this isn’t just an issue of paying free agents, it’s also an issue of drafting and player development. You can’t be constrained on both ends and expect to achieve “sustained success.” Now this I can truly say is spot on. Include IFA in the drafting portion of it just to give it an extra ummph ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Ask yourself: What would Billy Beane do? What would the Rays do? Given the internal cap that JR seems to have on any individual contract.....it would have to be a consideration. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Ask yourself: What would Billy Beane do? What would the Rays do? Given the internal cap that JR seems to have on any individual contract.....it would have to be a consideration. Get a grip on yourself. Jesus Christ. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Get a grip on yourself. Jesus Christ. You do realize that if Moncada and Giolito are the players we think they are and reach the open market, they're going to make a metric shit ton of cash. Think Machado and Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said: There's no reason to lock this. This is a very intriguing idea and a "4-d chess move". This is a move that only those with BIG IQ's will 'get'. I'm totally IN on listening to offers for Moncada and Giolito. But why stop there? Let's sell Kopech too, that guy is an injury waiting to happen, and also let's find someone who will take Eloy. Go back to San Diego bro... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 While so,e of this is ridiculous, it is time for the White Sox to pick a lane. Are they going to be a team capable of providing near luxury tax payrolls? If not, sustainable success is probably not in the cards. If they are going to spend their money conservatively they need to hire personnel that can overcome the lack of money being spent. They go after Machado, but don’t make much of an effort for Rendon. They go after Wheeler, but are said to not be very aggressive for anyone else. Make up your mind. Either throw money at your problems or go after a Beane or the guy in Tampa who are used to limited payrolls. Give them a few extra dollars for the payroll.Not their assistants. Pay them to win occasionally,which is more than you can say for the current group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: While so,e of this is ridiculous, it is time for the White Sox to pick a lane. Are they going to be a team capable of providing near luxury tax payrolls? If not, sustainable success is probably not in the cards. If they are going to spend their money conservatively they need to hire personnel that can overcome the lack of money being spent. They go after Machado, but don’t make much of an effort for Rendon. They go after Wheeler, but are said to not be very aggressive for anyone else. Make up your mind. Either throw money at your problems or go after a Beane or the guy in Tampa who are used to limited payrolls. Give them a few extra dollars for the payroll.Not their assistants. Pay them to win occasionally,which is more than you can say for the current group. Here’s my problem with what they are doing. They have a poor track record of drafting and developing players, they haven’t invested in IFA in a meaningful way since Robert, they aren’t willing or able to pay for premium free agent talent, and they have yet to show they are capable of pushing payroll to $140M+. How in the hell are they planning to achieve sustained success operating under all of those conditions? It’s the same old half ass attempt at competing, just so happened to be prefaced by a full rebuild. I’m sorry but if the ultimate goal is to win a World Series, which they say it is, they are back to hoping and praying it all magically comes together again one year. This is no plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Here’s my problem with what they are doing. They have a poor track record of drafting and developing players, they haven’t invested in IFA in a meaningful way since Robert, they aren’t willing or able to pay for premium free agent talent, and they have yet to show they are capable of pushing payroll to $140M+. How in the hell are they planning to achieve sustained success operating under all of those conditions? It’s the same old half ass attempt at competing, just so happened to be prefaced by a full rebuild. I’m sorry but if the ultimate goal is to win a World Series, which they say it is, they are back to hoping and praying it all magically comes together again one year. This is no plan. By trading for non-tender candidates instead of just spending money on sure things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 This FO has a poor track record in recent years for spending. But too many posters are giving up in the first few weeks of December. So far the Sox have not given up any quality assets and have added Grandal. There are weeks for Hahn to bolster our pitching staff and find a quality RF. Too many posters are acting like Spring Training opens this weekend. Hahn has 2 more months to re-do the roster before we see the final product. Then we can praise or trash him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Honestly, I worry very little of Giolito resigning. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will be money hungry. Kid loves it here and is one of the good ones out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, SCCWS said: This FO has a poor track record in recent years for spending. But too many posters are giving up in the first few weeks of December. So far the Sox have not given up any quality assets and have added Grandal. There are weeks for Hahn to bolster our pitching staff and find a quality RF. Too many posters are acting like Spring Training opens this weekend. Hahn has 2 more months to re-do the roster before we see the final product. Then we can praise or trash him. This. Steve Stone captured it well yesterday when he noted that the offseason isn’t even halfway over, so people should just relax at this point. He followed that up with if we’re in the same position in February that we are now, then complain away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 You could also try to extend giolito and moncada.moncada is less likely to take it due to his huge signing bonus but giolito only had one good year so far and shouldn't require a huge deal because as a pitcher there is big risk and he might regress again or get hurt. A trade for a ML ready top prospect like lux or addell would work too but with their one really good season giolito and moncada aren't much more proven than those guys so teams might not want to give up those control years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 It’s almost like posters can see the quality of the remaining free agents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, bmags said: It’s almost like posters can see the quality of the remaining free agents. To me, it’s trash outside of Bumgarner, Ryu, and Keuchel. All of the SP options outside of these three guys are fliers. Edited December 14, 2019 by Moan4Yoan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 34 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Honestly, I worry very little of Giolito resigning. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will be money hungry. Kid loves it here and is one of the good ones out there. It doesn't make you a bad person if you want to maximize your earnings to assist in the future stability of generations of your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 36 minutes ago, bmags said: It’s almost like posters can see the quality of the remaining free agents. Sounds like bmags agrees with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: To me, it’s trash outside of Bumgarner, Ryu, and Keuchel. All of the SP options outside of these three guys are fliers. Mike Fiers, lol. At least it would spark a rivalry with the Astros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sounds like bmags agrees with me! Not only this year, but next year’s class as well. And that’s before Betts or Springer are off the table and we have another fruitless offseason of Joc Pederson Talk, Version 3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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