Why has Hahn failed?

[Moan4Yoan]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ryu on a 3 year deal.  Keuchel on a 3 year deal would be OK as well.  

Really don't want to go to 4 years on either .  While I prefer Ryu overall, I'd feel more comfortable going 4 on Keuchel because he's more durable and I feel he may be a bit cheaper.  But I'd consider the 4th years for both depending on the AAV.  

I'd be fine with pretty much any of Walker, Wood, McHugh, Gio, or Smyly for the last spot.  Likely in that order.  

I’m good with this as well.  I mentioned Bumgarner since Ryu and Keuchel both use Boras and the Sox never sign Boras clients.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, you hate Ryu.  You've mentioned that.  He's definitely not perfect - I too would prefer a 2 year deal - but that isn't going to happen.  

I don't hate Ryu. He's a tier above Bumgarner and Keuchel......when he's available. Which isn't often enough. 

Love the pitcher, hate the lack of durability. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[SoxAce]

Bumgarner is looking more and more attractive to me, especially with the spin rate numbers.

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't hate Ryu. He's a tier above Bumgarner and Keuchel......when he's available. Which isn't often enough. 

Same amount as Wheeler though.  I too would rather bet on Wheeler moving forward, but he's gone, and we likely would have had to 2x the outlay for what Ryu will get.  So you're definitely paying for the better bet.  

I don't know if the Sox will sign one of Ryu or Keuchel.  I honestly can't say I blame them too much if it will require 4 year commitments, because I think the chances those guys are anything more than average #5 SPs - if they're even pitching - by the back end of those contracts is pretty much 0%.  

But as you said earlier Jack, as of right now, Sox pretty much need all of Gio, Cease, and Kopech to admirably fill the 1-3 spots in the rotation moving forward.  

Edited December 14, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Moan4Yoan]

I’d be very happy with adding Bumgarner and a guy like Wood.  I could see the Sox winning the division with these two guys along with the returns of Kopech and Rodon.

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Same amount as Wheeler though.  I too would rather bet on Wheeler moving forward, but he's gone, and we likely would have had to 2x the outlay for what Ryu will get.  So you're definitely paying for the better bet.  

I don't know if the Sox will sign one of Ryu or Keuchel.  I honestly can't say I blame them too much if it will require 4 year commitments, because I think the chances those guys are anything more than average #5 SPs - if they're even pitching - by the back end of those contracts is pretty much 0%.  

But as you said earlier Jack, as of right now, Sox pretty much need all of Gio, Cease, and Kopech to admirably fill the 1-3 spots in the rotation moving forward.  

They don't need all of them to do fill those spots, they need two of them to fill the top 2 spots. If Cease becomes a #4 it's ok. They can find a #3 starter elsewhere. 

They need Giolito to, at worst, repeat his 2019 season for the foreseeable future and Kopech to become the ace quality pitcher we all think he can be. 

Gio and Kopech are the Sox best bet for getting a true ace, and I wouldn't put it past either to pull it off. In a BEST case scenario, they both pull it off. I'm fairly confident that one of the two will reach ace level. 

There's much more uncertainty with Cease, but he has that ability as well. I'm not sure the command ever gets there. I've seen more ability to hit spots out of Giolito and Kopech(in his limited sample size) than Cease. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[SoCalChiSox]

18 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I’d be very happy with adding Bumgarner and a guy like Wood.  I could see the Sox winning the division with these two guys along with the returns of Kopech and Rodon.

That MLBExec guy on Twitter predicted Sox would sign Wood on like a 1 year 5m deal. 

[pcq]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Ryu on a 3 year deal.  Keuchel on a 3 year deal would be OK as well.  

Really don't want to go to 4 years on either .  While I prefer Ryu overall, I'd feel more comfortable going 4 on Keuchel because he's more durable and I feel he may be a bit cheaper.  But I'd consider the 4th years for both depending on the AAV.  

I'd be fine with pretty much any of Walker, Wood, McHugh, Gio, or Smyly for the last spot.  Likely in that order.  

Ryu had a good year but how many Asians have come here and done well. They prefer the West coast. Just my guess that Chicago is not his preferred GPS which leaves Keuchel. 

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This rebuild, as it stands, revolves around Giolito, Kopech and Cease. 

The Sox need at least one to develop into a bonafide ace. 

Even if Giolito maintains his performance from 2019 and never gets any better or worse, he's still a strong #2. At that point, the onus falls on Kopech and Cease. 

I wouldn't bet against either guy and even Lopez shows flashes.

[Moan4Yoan]

17 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

That MLBExec guy on Twitter predicted Sox would sign Wood on like a 1 year 5m deal. 

I could see Wood getting $8 to $10 million for one year but that would be a nice signing.

[pcq]

Just now, pcq said:

Ryu had a good year but how many Asians have come here and done well. They prefer the West coast. Just my guess that Chicago is not his preferred GPS which leaves Keuchel. 

Worth noting that Nova had a decent 2018 with Pgh and career 4.32 ERA better than some of the stiffs out there. Should have been signed for depth already. 

[bschmaranz]

43 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I could see Wood getting $8 to $10 million for one year but that would be a nice signing.

I agree.  I would think the Porcello deal is a fair comparison.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Worth noting that Nova had a decent 2018 with Pgh and career 4.32 ERA better than some of the stiffs out there. Should have been signed for depth already. 

The idea of Nova is growing on me as well.  We know he can take the ball every 5 days and with our 2020 lineup that 4.32 era plays a lot better.

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The idea of Nova is growing on me as well.  We know he can take the ball every 5 days and with our 2020 lineup that 4.32 era plays a lot better.

Nova can take the ball every 5 days and put up a near 5 ERA (4.72 last year).  He doesn’t strike out anyone anymore so he’s pretty weak option for the rotation.

[caulfield12]

Nova doesn’t work only because it proves we’re not really about making the kind of improvements that lead to playoff baseball.  It’s another way of telling the fanbase we’re punting on another year and couldn’t come up with anything better, so deal with it.  Had he been on another team last year, it would be a lot more palatable.

He was fine...in a way....but he also represents $35-40 million of mostly wasted dollars spent last offseason that led to pretty much nothing.  I guess we protected Sox fans from a worse record, but it’s not like any pitchers remained in AA and AAA because we had Nova in the rotation.

[Sambuca]

I’m not a Hahn apologist, but I’d love to see what he could do with an owner who will not only support him, but back the fuck off in baseball decisions.  He just can’t handle someone else making decisions with his limited money allotments.

Granted, Hahn could make better use of his money like the A’s or Rays, but they are not supposed to be appear as a small market team.  Reinsdorf probably thinks he’s making splashes with Melky Cabrera.  This goes back to him needing to take a back seat in baseball decisions.

Think about how hard it must be for Hahn to negotiate big contracts with player’s agents while he’s probably simultaneously negotiating harder with Reinsdorf.

I think Hahn is an intelligent guy with a good modern baseball mind.  So far, I like what he’s done during this rebuild so I’m going to hold off judgement until he completes it.  Hopefully they are able to acquire some talent this offseason.  I really doubt Hahn set this team up with so much financial flexibility for this stage of the rebuild if he didn’t have expectations to be able to spend this money.

Anyways, they really need to compete next season.  They can’t waste a year of this much young talent on the ML team.  

Edited December 15, 2019 by Sambuca

[Dick Allen]

One place where the White Sox organization has failed is not havi g their Nike jerseys for sale on their website for Christmas gifts. Just trying to get rid of the Majestic inventory is going to upset a lot of people who are not aware.

[GradMc]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:16 PM, caulfield12 said:

He did a good job signing McCann, Soria, Fat Albers for half a season.

But it’s impossible to make the case there is a demonstrably WORSE GM in MLB today.

He doesn’t have the right underdog type of mentality necessary for fronting a mid market team.  He always seems more concerned with how he’s perceived than being judged on what he actually accomplishes.   There are typically more excuses and rationalizations than actual, concrete results.   

The Brewers, Twins, A’s, Rays, Indians and Reds are all examples of teams who are embracing they’re limited financial resources and still putting a competitive product on the field.

This mentality is why Madrigal, in particular...will quickly become a fan favorite.

 

In the end, we’re not the Knicks or even the Marlins/Mariners/Orioles...but we’re not exactly relevant either, with the Machado and Wheeler situations just reinforcing that.

Reinsdorf cries poor.

The group that owns the Sox can compete with anyone.

But they are not sportsmen.

[GradMc]

If we had an ownership willing to truly compete, Hahn wouldn't be the GM  anyway.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 12/14/2019 at 7:57 AM, joesaiditstrue said:

Its gonna sting when they trade Moncada.

At this point, it would be the smart thing to do if they can get a haul in return (think Lux, May, Gray from the Dodgers).

[Hatchetman]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 1:37 PM, GradMc said:

Reinsdorf cries poor.

The group that owns the Sox can compete with anyone.

But they are not sportsmen.

This is pretty much all there is to say about the situation.

[Cashman]

14 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

At this point, it would be the smart thing to do if they can get a haul in return (think Lux, May, Gray from the Dodgers).

At some point, this is coming. No way they shell out the money he is gonna command.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Cashman said:

At some point, this is coming. No way they shell out the money he is gonna command.

That ship sailed a year ago. I was advocating for an extension before the 2019 season started. Too late now.

I started anther thread on this topic already but a pivot to trading Moncada for a package of premier MLB ready prospects is the right move at this point in the rebuild imo. 2020 is already another lost season so bring in young studs like Lux and May now to take their licks in 2020 so they are ready to roll come 2021.

[chetkincaid]

3 minutes ago, Cashman said:

At some point, this is coming. No way they shell out the money he is gonna command.

This is what I have been thinking. Do we really believe that JR is going to pay Moncada or Giolito? 

The White Sox really need new ownership.

[Cashman]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That ship sailed a year ago. I was advocating for an extension before the 2019 season started. Too late now.

I started anther thread on this topic already but a pivot to trading Moncada for a package of premier MLB ready prospects is the right move at this point in the rebuild imo. 2020 is already another lost season so bring in young studs like Lux and May now to take their licks in 2020 so they are ready to roll come 2021.

They would of been smart, coming to a deal with him before last season.