MLB issues threat to MiLB

[Balta1701]

Well then.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/12/14/major-league-baseball-threatens-to-walk-away-from-minor-league-baseball-entirely/

Quote

The war between Major League Baseball and Minor League Baseball escalated significantly last night, with Minor League Baseball releasing a memo accusing Major League Baseball of “repeatedly and inaccurately” describing the former’s stance in negotiations and Major League Baseball responding by threatening to cut ties with Minor League Baseball entirely.

As you’re no doubt aware, negotiations of the next 10-year Professional Baseball Agreement, which governs the relationship between the big leagues and the minors — and which is set to expire following the 2020 season — have turned acrimonious. Whereas past negotiations have been quick and uncontroversial, this time Major League Baseball presented Minor League Baseball with a plan to essentially contract 42 minor league baseball teams by eliminating their major league affiliation. Baseball is also demanding that Minor League Baseball undertake far more of the financial burden of player development which is normally the responsibility of the majors.

That plan became public in October when Baseball America reported on the contraction scheme, after which elected officials such as Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren began weighing in on the side of Minor League Baseball. Rob Manfred and Major League Baseball were not happy with all of that and, on Wednesday, Manfred bashed Minor League Baseball for taking the negotiations public and accused Minor League Baseball of intransigence, saying the minors had assumed a “take it or leave it” negotiating stance.

Last night Minor League Baseball bashed back in the form of a four-page public memo countering Manfred’s claims, with point-point-by-point rebuttals of Major League Baseball’s talking points on various matters ranging from stadium facilities, team travel, and player health and welfare. You can read the memo in this Twitter thread from Josh Norris of Baseball America.

Major League Baseball responded with its own public statement last night. But rather than publicly rebut Minor League Baseball’s claims, or to simply say, consistent with Manfred’s statement on Wednesday, that it preferred to negotiate in private, it threatened to simply drop any agreement with Minor League Baseball and, presumably start its own minor league system bypassing MiLB entirely:

“If the National Association [of Minor League Clubs] has an interest in an agreement with Major League Baseball, it must address the very significant issues with the current system at the bargaining table. Otherwise, MLB clubs will be free to affiliate with any minor league team or potential team in the United States, including independent league teams and cities which are not permitted to compete for an affiliate under the current agreement.”

 

[Quin]

Well damn.

Both sides are too blame. The Sox affiliates have done a good job of keeping their stadiums up to date, but there are some falling apart.

Meanwhile, MLB pays players scraps and for the price of a couple decent MLB players, they could pay minor Leaguers minimum wage, which MLB doesn't want to do. Cole Hamels' 18M, 1 year deal could pay 1,200 players a federal minimum wage over the course of a year. Assuming two rookie, two A, AA, and AAA, that's 150 players in a system (not counting DSL for obvious reasons). Cole Hamels' deal could pay for 8 minor league systems, but MLB lobbies Congress to pass a law allowing them to pay under minimum wage. How about they all just agree to invest more?

/Rant over

[Dominikk85]

I wonder why milb is independent at all? Why isn't mlb running that thing completely?

[Quin]

17 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I wonder why milb is independent at all? Why isn't mlb running that thing completely?

Money

[Dominikk85]

The biggest point of argument is the contraction of the minors. Mlb wants less leagues and players to save money and spend player dev resources better.

Milb doesn't want that of course but in the end they will need to accept the contraction because they don't have much bargaining power here.

[DirtySox]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/sources-milb-ready-to-agree-to-significant-reduction-in-teams/

[ScootsMcGoots]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/sources-milb-ready-to-agree-to-significant-reduction-in-teams/

It seems like a good move. Basically eliminating all rookie level teams. What I find interesting is reorganizing the leagues and even the levels to fit teams better geographically. None of the Sox minor league teams are anywhere near Illinois. Would they get all different teams I wonder?

[ChiSoxJon]

Feel bad for a lot of small towns

[whitesoxfan99]

20 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

It seems like a good move. Basically eliminating all rookie level teams. What I find interesting is reorganizing the leagues and even the levels to fit teams better geographically. None of the Sox minor league teams are anywhere near Illinois. Would they get all different teams I wonder?

Good for who?  Seems like this only benefits the billionaire owners of the MLB franchises.

[ScootsMcGoots]

2 hours ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

Good for who?  Seems like this only benefits the billionaire owners of the MLB franchises.

If it indeed improves the playing conditions of the players as they can allocate more of the funding to upgrade the facilities that will continue to exist, then it benefits them. As I said, I also like the idea of minor league teams being closer geographically to their major league affiliates.

[caulfield12]

Looks like Burlington (one of smallest full-season markets) and Clinton are gone.

Cedar Rapids spared...hard to imagine the Quad Cities would be gone with that bigger population base, and an owner (Heller) with multiple teams (Wilmington, Lowell and Billings).    

Quad Cities fate now partially tied into the completion/readiness of new Beloit stadium (for 2021), which was supposed to commence construction this week but will be delayed indefinitely with coronavirus. 

Looks like the Pioneer League is in trouble for both geography reasons as well as cultural assimilation for Latin American players.

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 4/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, ScooterMcGee said:

It seems like a good move. Basically eliminating all rookie level teams. What I find interesting is reorganizing the leagues and even the levels to fit teams better geographically. None of the Sox minor league teams are anywhere near Illinois. Would they get all different teams I wonder?

I doubt it. Charlotte is one of the best markets in the minor leagues and I can't see the White Sox dumping them. The affiliates don't need to be closer to Chicago as long as they're all somewhat close to each other. My guess is the Sox 4 affiliates stay the same but they add a 2nd team in the AZL. Getting out of Great Falls is probably a good thing anyway. 

[ptatc]

23 hours ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

Good for who?  Seems like this only benefits the billionaire owners of the MLB franchises.

It will be good for all of the MiLB. With fewer teams and fewer players, each player will get an improved experience with more focus coaching, nutrition and training as well as pay.

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

It will be good for all of the MiLB. With fewer teams and fewer players, each player will get an improved experience with more focus coaching, nutrition and training as well as pay.

I agree mostly.  As long as opportunity isn’t lost.  
 

Has there been talk of independent leagues expanding into vacated stadiums and serving as rookie/prove-it leagues?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree mostly.  As long as opportunity isn’t lost.  
 

Has there been talk of independent leagues expanding into vacated stadiums and serving as rookie/prove-it leagues?

Of course opportunity will be lost.. less teams=less players

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Baseball should be trying to expand the game not contracting it.  The more guys playing baseball is a good thing.  Just another example of baseballs new found arrogance.  

[Jerksticks]

33 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Of course opportunity will be lost.. less teams=less players

Well yea that seems like the obvious, hence my question.  

[ScootsMcGoots]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Baseball should be trying to expand the game not contracting it.  The more guys playing baseball is a good thing.  Just another example of baseballs new found arrogance.  

How is it arrogance? 

I look at it this way. Maybe this will ultimately make MLB teams more competitive, as theoretically this should improve the resources that are available to the players that will still be playing. How many teams in baseball are rebuilding? I think the less teams that have to rebuild, ultimately the better the game will be.  And the less minor league teams that front offices need to be concerned with, again theoretically, they can focus on player development a lot more closely. And players should be getting paid more after this.

Pretty much echoing what ptatc said I guess.

Yes, minor league teams are important to communities and accessibility for people like you and I to be close to the game more often. But, ultimately, what do the majority of the people want? A winning major league team. That's what peaks the peoples' interest.

 

 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcGee said:

How is it arrogance? 

I look at it this way. Maybe this will ultimately make MLB teams more competitive, as theoretically this should improve the resources that are available to the players that will still be playing. How many teams in baseball are rebuilding? I think the less teams that have to rebuild, ultimately the better the game will be.  And the less minor league teams that front offices need to be concerned with, again theoretically, they can focus on player development a lot more closely. And players should be getting paid more after this.

Pretty much echoing what ptatc said I guess.

Yes, minor league teams are important to communities and accessibility for people like you and I to be close to the game more often. But, ultimately, what do the majority of the people want? A winning major league team. That's what peaks the peoples' interest.

 

 

It's arrogance because they think they're smarter than the game.  They're eliminating minor league teams and cutting the draft because they think they're better and SMARTER at developing players. They have technology!!!  No need for all those pesky players anymore.  It's too bad.  They're making the game worse but the nerds are holding the hammer because they can say the 5 magic words that every billionaire owner loves to hear.  It will save you money.  

[ScootsMcGoots]

34 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's arrogance because they think they're smarter than the game.  They're eliminating minor league teams and cutting the draft because they think they're better and SMARTER at developing players. They have technology!!!  No need for all those pesky players anymore.  It's too bad.  They're making the game worse but the nerds are holding the hammer because they can say the 5 magic words that every billionaire owner loves to hear.  It will save you money.  

There's a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. 

I understand that money talks and it's a big part of baseball. Obviously, it's a business. But the owners aren't dumb. They know it's wise to listen to people who are knowledgeable in the game about what works in player development. They know that leads to winning, and they know winning brings in money. Which keeps the baseball world turning.

And why do people have to constantly point out the fact that owners are billionaires like it's a bad thing. They own businesses, that are paying literally hundreds of millions of dollars to employees, plus an unending black-hole of other costs, I'm sure. It's not like you can be an owner of a professional sports team and not have a ton of money (that is most likely being invested back into the team), to effectively run it.

[caulfield12]

https://theathletic.com/1757830/2020/04/23/layoffs-twitch-streams-and-hope-checking-in-on-the-white-sox-minor-leagues/?source=shared-article

[Vulture]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:56 PM, ScooterMcGee said:

There's a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. 

Firstly, it's not a conspiracy theory because it is not describing a secret plan to commit a crime. Secondly, it is the very height of fallacial argumentation to slap a conspiracy theory label on your opponent's argument, particularly in light of the first fact.

[Dominikk85]

On 4/24/2020 at 1:56 AM, ScooterMcGee said:

There's a conspiracy theory if I've ever heard one. 

I understand that money talks and it's a big part of baseball. Obviously, it's a business. But the owners aren't dumb. They know it's wise to listen to people who are knowledgeable in the game about what works in player development. They know that leads to winning, and they know winning brings in money. Which keeps the baseball world turning.

And why do people have to constantly point out the fact that owners are billionaires like it's a bad thing. They own businesses, that are paying literally hundreds of millions of dollars to employees, plus an unending black-hole of other costs, I'm sure. It's not like you can be an owner of a professional sports team and not have a ton of money (that is most likely being invested back into the team), to effectively run it.

Also even if the contraction makes the talent pipeline worse it doesn't really matter as all teams are doing it so there is no disadvantage.

I think for quality of talent it won't make a difference either way. Most good or even average mlb players are from the first 10-15 rounds and contracting the minors and draft won't change that. Sure there is the occasional good 30th rounder (piazza) but those are exceptions.

Regarding focusing of resources I don't think that is a big effect either as teams are already focusing resources on the real talents and the fillers aren't getting much attention anyway.

In the end it is mostly saving costs without really any big disadvantage. Sure an occasional diamond in the rough will be missed but that applies to all teams so nothing is really lost for the individual teams.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

The Orioles released 37 minor leaguers.  And it starts.  

[Y2Jimmy0]

39 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Orioles released 37 minor leaguers.  And it starts.  

Yep. It's coming. 

On 4/29/2020 at 5:49 PM, Dominikk85 said:

Also even if the contraction makes the talent pipeline worse it doesn't really matter as all teams are doing it so there is no disadvantage.

I think for quality of talent it won't make a difference either way. Most good or even average mlb players are from the first 10-15 rounds and contracting the minors and draft won't change that. Sure there is the occasional good 30th rounder (piazza) but those are exceptions.

Regarding focusing of resources I don't think that is a big effect either as teams are already focusing resources on the real talents and the fillers aren't getting much attention anyway.

In the end it is mostly saving costs without really any big disadvantage. Sure an occasional diamond in the rough will be missed but that applies to all teams so nothing is really lost for the individual teams.

I had a similar mindset to this when we had JJ Cooper on. I said the White Sox losing Great Falls wasn't that big of a deal if they could field two AZL and two DSL teams if allowed. JJ made a great point though. He presented this scenario: what if a player is great in the AZL for his rookie season and then the club promotes to Kannapolis for full season the following year. The player really struggles ad Kanny isn't the right fit. Do you send that guy back to the AZL for short season complex ball since there is no more short season rookie ball? You'd usually send that player to Great Falls with the intention of bringing back to Kannapolis soon.