Edwin Encarnacion

[mqr]

I get wanting to launch Collins with EE, but do you really want to trust a 37 yo man to be healthy for 6 months?

[Rowand44]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I absolutely understand why they'd sign Edwin,  but I'd love to give 130 games to Collins personally. It's risky though.

If it was last year, absolutely...right now, give me Edwin and lets win a division.

[caulfield12]

If Flowers and Narvaez taught them one thing, it should be patience with catchers.

It makes a lot more sense to keep Collins (it’s not like his trade value is that high anyway) as McCann’s replacement as well as a part-time DH and PH.

It’s just as likely they could trade McCann at mid-season, since they’re not going to give him a raise from $5.5 million or a long term extension to be a backup when it’s pretty clear he could catch on with a number of teams as a starter after 2019.

He should be eager to put up big numbers again and then be the #2 option behind Realmuto in free agency next year.

[BFirebird]

Just now, mqr said:

I get wanting to launch Collins with EE, but do you really want to trust a 37 yo man to be healthy for 6 months?

Nope.  That is why you have both on the roster IMO.  I would do a platoon, but not a strictly lefty/righty platoon.  Depending on matchups, I would play EE 3-4 games a week and Collins 2-3 depending on how many games you have.  Cubs somehow got all their players to play and they didn't have a DH...I don't think it will be hard to get everyone playing time.  Outside of the young players, Abreu, Grandal, EE (if signed) shouldn't be playing every day. 

[SonofaRoache]

We have Abreu for 3 years, Grandal for 4 years, and Vaughn will be here shortly. This means Collins will have to earn a big role on this team and he should have to. Even if we sign EE, chances are next season Collins will have a chance to platoon with Abreu at DH and to be backup catcher IF he performs. 

Also, Robert and Madrigal will go through struggles finding themselves this season, so I do not want our DH being Collins as well. Next year when Madrigal and Robert figure things out, I'd have no problem taking more of a chance on Collins, as we will be okay if he fails. 

[chetkincaid]

Wouldn't the Red Sox be willing to lauch JD Martinez and his contract for little of nothing? If they're rebuilding on the fly and they need to shed payroll, then I'd think he wouldn't cost much in terms of prospects. I know he has some sort of a No Trade clause but the White Sox are building a very interesting team here.

[bmags]

35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If Flowers and Narvaez taught them one thing, it should be patience with catchers.

It makes a lot more sense to keep Collins (it’s not like his trade value is that high anyway) as McCann’s replacement as well as a part-time DH and PH.

It’s just as likely they could trade McCann at mid-season, since they’re not going to give him a raise from $5.5 million or a long term extension to be a backup when it’s pretty clear he could catch on with a number of teams as a starter after 2019.

He should be eager to put up big numbers again and then be the #2 option behind Realmuto in free agency next year.

I wish we could lease collins. THe AAA environment is so ridiculous now it's probably not the best place to help him grow, but it will be hard to find him time. Send him to the Tigers for a one-year lease.

[poppysox]

I favor using the DH position as a place to use one of our three catchers or an outfielder in a platoon in right or a day off for Eloy or Jose.  Not missing anything when you play in a NL park.  Not having EE allows you to have a more rounded player perhaps with defensive and speed attributes.  EE wouldn't really bother me...just not my preference.

[iWiN4PreP]

7 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

Wouldn't the Red Sox be willing to lauch JD Martinez and his contract for little of nothing? If they're rebuilding on the fly and they need to shed payroll, then I'd think he wouldn't cost much in terms of prospects. I know he has some sort of a No Trade clause but the White Sox are building a very interesting team here.

I absolutely love this, however, from all accounts -- it seems like the Red Sox have no f***ing idea what their doing. They are trying to get way too much for their overpriced assets. It's on them to come down in price. I still think a Price/Martinez or a Price/Benin deal would work really well for both clubs. They just have to realize they aren't getting shit back for it. 

If their serious at going after Betts, they really need to think about that one. 

[EloyJenkins]

7 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

Wouldn't the Red Sox be willing to lauch JD Martinez and his contract for little of nothing? If they're rebuilding on the fly and they need to shed payroll, then I'd think he wouldn't cost much in terms of prospects. I know he has some sort of a No Trade clause but the White Sox are building a very interesting team here.

They will try everything they can to dump Price first. If they can't find takers, then maybe they explore JDM. If they want Betts long term though they probably have to trade Price and JDM. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Zack Collins is not someone who should be preventing the Sox from acquiring players like Encarnacion, who can easily provide 35+ HRs and a .350 OBP.

Everyone who wants to compete next year should not be willing to roll the dice on Collins and potentially have a black hole in the DH position.  You can’t survive in the AL that way.  Especially with 80 games at Comsikey.  

A one year deal is not going to cause any harm to the rebuild.  Collins should still be given a decent amount of at bats next season and Encarnacion will only be blocking him for a year.  It’s Vaughn who pretty much renders Collins uselss.  

I understand wanting EE.  Most are perfecrly willing to roll with Robert and Madrigal but not Collins. I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player. But if everyone is using the excuse of NEEDing to compete next year how is there much difference between rolling with 3 instead of 2 rookies in the lineup ? Are we also not going to use Kopech ?

Offensively Collins could add just as much as Robert. Both have big time power. Collins gets on base much better. What if Robert had come up and struggled as much as Collins ? After his disastrous 1st call up last year Collins went back down in July  and proceeded to absolutely destroy AAA .

About 150 AB's  .340 batting average . .700+ Slg and 1.200 OPS .  Just crazy good numbers .He then got called up again and did much better especially right near the end of the season;

I just don't think the argument for needing to attempt to win the division holds any water when guys like Kopech Robert and Madrigal will miss many games combined before they are brought up and will all certainly have struggles similar to what Collins had.

We keep hearing arguments from many learned Sox fans that the difference between Robert and Madrigal and Kopech missing games to get the extra years of control probably won't hurt the Sox in the quest for  the division. So why is Collins all of a sudden the odd man out ? Is the perceived difference between Collins and EE so great  or so different than the games Kopech, Robert and Madrigal will miss and the games where they will struggle ?

Let the young team grow together next year. Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole.

[Kyyle23]

I like Collins more than many but to say he could provide as much to the offense as Robert is just plain wrong.   I'm about 99 percent sure those two players do not exist in the same offensive plane of existence as each other 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Oh brother. Not this guy again

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Oh brother. Not this guy again

Well.....you don't HAVE to give him the attention

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I like Collins more than many but to say he could provide as much to the offense as Robert is just plain wrong.   I'm about 99 percent sure those two players do not exist in the same offensive plane of existence as each other 

If you take base running out of the equation and use just offensive numbers why would you say that ? Robert is much less experienced at the higher levels than Collins and comparing their offensive numbers at AAA there isn't much difference except Collins OBP was greater. That's the only thing you have to go on . If the small sample size of Collins initial struggles is that much of an influence there's nothing anyone can say to sway that 99 % thought process.

Edited December 23, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you take base running out of the equation and use just offensive numbers why would you say that ? Robert is much less experienced at the higher levels than Collins and comparing their offensive numbers at AAA there isn't much difference except Collins OBP was greater. That's only thing you have to go on . If the small sample size of Collins initial struggles is that much of an influence there's nothing anyone can say to sway that 99 % thought process.

If you take running out of the game?  I mean, Robert is fucking fast.  That's part of the reason why he is so great.   I wouldn't say "if you take walks out of the game would you think Collins was so great?" Because why would I remove an integral part of the players game to prove some point?

Robert is a tremendously better player.  He made the minors look easy while Collins adjusted.  That doesn't mean a Collins sucks, but those two aren't similar players 

[tray]

I think Collins is hot garbage based on what he did in the minors for 4 years (large sample size) and what I saw of him last season (small sample size).

IMO, Sox should look for a catcher in the first round of the 2020 Draft and send Collins to the minors to start the season (or trade him).

Back on topic, a one year / 8 Mil. deal for EE seems to make a lot of  sense, especially if Vaughn pans out as a DH/1B.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

If you take running out of the game?  I mean, Robert is fucking fast.  That's part of the reason why he is so great.   I wouldn't say "if you take walks out of the game would you think Collins was so great?" Because why would I remove an integral part of the players game to prove some point?

Robert is a tremendously better player.  He made the minors look easy while Collins adjusted.  That doesn't mean a Collins sucks, but those two aren't similar players 

I already said that Robert and Madrigal provide much more than just the bat in my initial post . EE is just a bat and mostly so will Collins be. I am not comparing anything but the bat to Robert . To compare them as total players of course Robert is way better. I am not advocating a replacement for Robert, Madrigal. Kopech or Cease so don't try to turn this into me comparing Collins to Robert. The potential bats are similar not total offensive and defensive worth.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

44 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

Offensively Collins could add just as much as Robert.

The comparison was yours, not mine 

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

There is absolutely zero benefit to sending Collins back to AAA. If the White Sox plan on sending him back down they might as well trade the guy. He'll be 25 years old coming off a season in AAA with a wRC+ of 140. There's no benefit in a guy going back to a level he's completely dominated. 

Its nice to have depth.  I prefer Collins in AAA as opposed to trading McCann for whatever they can get and using Collins as a strict backup that only plays 5x a month.  That doesn't do him much good either.  

Edited December 23, 2019 by ChiSox59

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The comparison was yours, not mine 

Well sure if you take that one sentence out of context from a lengthy post where i also said this before I said that" I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player."

The point was in case you only read that one sentence is that if you expect to win the division with untested youth many of whom will miss a lot of combined games due to injury and the extra year of control  you might as well also let Collins play because the BATS only are similar and EE is also just a more expensive and more proven bat.

Edited December 23, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[soxfan49]

55 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I understand wanting EE.  Most are perfecrly willing to roll with Robert and Madrigal but not Collins. I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player. But if everyone is using the excuse of NEEDing to compete next year how is there much difference between rolling with 3 instead of 2 rookies in the lineup ? Are we also not going to use Kopech ?

Offensively Collins could add just as much as Robert. Both have big time power. Collins gets on base much better. What if Robert had come up and struggled as much as Collins ? After his disastrous 1st call up last year Collins went back down in July  and proceeded to absolutely destroy AAA .

About 150 AB's  .340 batting average . .700+ Slg and 1.200 OPS .  Just crazy good numbers .He then got called up again and did much better especially right near the end of the season;

I just don't think the argument for needing to attempt to win the division holds any water when guys like Kopech Robert and Madrigal will miss many games combined before they are brought up and will all certainly have struggles similar to what Collins had.

We keep hearing arguments from many learned Sox fans that the difference between Robert and Madrigal and Kopech missing games to get the extra years of control probably won't hurt the Sox in the quest for  the division. So why is Collins all of a sudden the odd man out ? Is the perceived difference between Collins and EE so great  or so different than the games Kopech, Robert and Madrigal will miss and the games where they will struggle ?

Let the young team grow together next year. Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole.

I disagree

Not saying they WILL win it but I'm not sure most people think Minnesota is still the favorite

[turnin' two]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I wish we could lease collins. THe AAA environment is so ridiculous now it's probably not the best place to help him grow, but it will be hard to find him time. Send him to the Tigers for a one-year lease.

Hahaha!  I love this.  I think stuff like this happened in olde tyme baseball.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

I disagree

Not saying they WILL win it but I'm not sure most people think Minnesota is still the favorite

Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole. 

My whole point not just the bolded. And I'd feel even better if we get a better bullpen. If we want depth ,relying on Marshall and Cordero isn't great either along with everything else.

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

I disagree

Not saying they WILL win it but I'm not sure most people think Minnesota is still the favorite

Probably but the Twins are going to take a major step back.  

When 60% of your rotation the first 25% of the season is Lewis Thorpe, Randy Dobnak and Devin Smeltzer, you're going to lose a lot of games.  

Best case scenario for the Sox is that the Twins are forced to trade away major future talent in Royce Lewis and/or Kirilloff for SP because they've left themselves no other options.  Or maybe its just filling in their rotation with guys like Nova and Smyly.  Either way, their rotation is pretty gross.    

Edited December 23, 2019 by ChiSox59