Edwin Encarnacion

[Eminor3rd]

49 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I posted this in another thread, but it belongs here, in this discussion about E. E.:

EE only played in 109 games, last year. He may be almost 37, but he can still hit. He also hits both RH and LH pitching, pretty equally. I realize that he is not likely to play every game, but If he had played a full 162 games, his last year's production projects to be as follows:

2B   HR  RBI                     AVG OBP SLG OPS

26

0

50

127

0

1

86

153

.244

.344

.531

.875

 

If he can be acquired on a 1 year contract, why not?

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

[SoxBlanco]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean you trade him for value, whether that be a reliever or minor league depth.   A lot of teams could use catching help right about now.

I wouldn’t mind that, as long as Collins would get enough at bats. He would obviously catch when Grandal needs a break, but he could also DH whenever Abreu or EE rest. I just don’t want him sitting on the bench as a backup catcher all year. 

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

EE isn't short-sighted if they still give Collins DH ABs vs RHP. It's insurance if Collins sucks and a platoon partner for Collins. It's a 1 year deal. Pay him the $10M and still give Collins the ABs vs RHP in April and May. If Collins sucks, re-evaluate and DH EE full time. If not, continue the platoon. 

Also, they can still find ABs for Collins at 1B when Abreu needs a day off. 

If they sign EE, Renteria needs to be 100% committed to giving Collins DH duties vs RHP for at least the first 6 weeks of the season. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[chw42]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No to EE yes to HP.Less DH more baseball player.

I was surprised to learn that Pence actually played some OF last year. I thought he just DH'd for Texas. I'm sure he'll come at half the price of EE, but you're also getting less of a certainty at the plate.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

I like this very much

[chw42]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

EE isn't short-sighted if they still give Collins DH ABs vs RHP. It's insurance if Collins sucks and a platoon partner for Collins. It's a 1 year deal. Pay him the $10M and still give Collins the ABs vs RHP in April and May. If Collins sucks, re-evaluate and DH EE full time. If not, continue the platoon. 

I doubt that kind of plan ever gets EE to sign here. I'm thinking he wants full PT, not be a platoon partner with Collins and get maybe 1/3 of the PAs at DH.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, chw42 said:

I was surprised to learn that Pence actually played some OF last year. I thought he just DH'd for Texas. I'm sure he'll come at half the price of EE, but you're also getting less of a certainty at the plate.

Have you checked his splits against lefties last year ? They were great like 1.000 OPS great and high OBP and also can hit righties in case of injury to Mazara. 18 HRs in less than 300 Ab's. EE cant replace anyone in the field.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I doubt that kind of plan ever gets EE to sign here. I'm thinking he wants full PT, not be a platoon partner with Collins and get maybe 1/3 of the PAs at DH.

I don't think that the Sox are necessarily looking for a starting piece right now. They're looking for a known lefty killer that can play some RF. 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

Vaughn will be our 1B in 2021 and Abreu our DH.  Collins has no spot long term unless he proves he handle the backup catcher role.  Signing EE to a one year deal doesn’t change any of that.

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Have you checked his splits against lefties last year ? They were great like 1.000 OPS great and high OBP and also can hit righties in case of injury to Mazara. 18 HRs in less than 300 Ab's. EE cant replace anyone in the field.

I like Pence also (great documentary about his comeback), but isn’t he awful as well defensively?

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Have you checked his splits against lefties last year ? They were great like 1.000 OPS great and high OBP and also can hit righties in case of injury to Mazara. 18 HRs in less than 300 Ab's. EE cant replace anyone in the field.

1.8 WAR. His best since 2014. Projected at 0.3 for 2020. EE beats him in both 

[BackDoorBreach]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

EE isn't short-sighted if they still give Collins DH ABs vs RHP. It's insurance if Collins sucks and a platoon partner for Collins. It's a 1 year deal. Pay him the $10M and still give Collins the ABs vs RHP in April and May. If Collins sucks, re-evaluate and DH EE full time. If not, continue the platoon. 

Also, they can still find ABs for Collins at 1B when Abreu needs a day off. 

If they sign EE, Renteria needs to be 100% committed to giving Collins DH duties vs RHP for at least the first 6 weeks of the season. 

This doesn't really work imo.  It's half in half out which doesn't maximize anything.

Grandal is going to need DH at bats as well and might get time at 1B and I'd figure Mazara will get some too.  It's just way too many moving parts and if you are paying EE 10 million bucks to hit dongs there is probably no chance anyone other than Grandal is getting in there.

[beck72]

The Sox could use EE's professional at bats, and power, getting into 100+ games. If the sox sign him, I could see Collins being dealt for pitching help. That the talk/ interest is there, means they aren't sold on Collins being able to handle DH duties. Which in all fairness, Collins could hook on as a C in another organization and has a little value now. He will have little if the Sox have him rotate at DH with Grandal, McCann and Abreu. 

 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

This doesn't really work imo.  It's half in half out which doesn't maximize anything.

Grandal is going to need DH at bats as well and might get time at 1B and I'd figure Mazara will get some too.  It's just way too many moving parts and if you are paying EE 10 million bucks to hit dongs there is probably no chance anyone other than Grandal is getting in there.

I don't think they're actually looking at a full-time DH. I think Collins, Abreu, and Grandal are going to spend a lot of time there. They did say that Grandal was going to play a little 1B, so I'm pretty sure that the starting lineup is set and they're going to use a floating DH. 

So we should stop looking at players like Castellanos/Ozuna/EE and start looking at players like Steven Sousa. 

There's also an outside shot that Vaughn absolutely tears up the minors this year and looks ready to take over 1B. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

EE isn't short-sighted if they still give Collins DH ABs vs RHP. It's insurance if Collins sucks and a platoon partner for Collins. It's a 1 year deal. Pay him the $10M and still give Collins the ABs vs RHP in April and May. If Collins sucks, re-evaluate and DH EE full time. If not, continue the platoon. 

Also, they can still find ABs for Collins at 1B when Abreu needs a day off. 

If they sign EE, Renteria needs to be 100% committed to giving Collins DH duties vs RHP for at least the first 6 weeks of the season. 

They aren’t signing EE to be a weak-side platoon DH.  He’d be the primary DH.  Short of injury, Collins would looking at around 40 starts at catcher (assuming they trade McCann) and probably another 20 or so starts at 1B / DH.
 

 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They aren’t signing EE to be a weak-side platoon DH.  He’d be the primary DH.  Short of injury, Collins would looking at around 40 starts at catcher (assuming they trade McCann) and probably another 20 or so starts at 1B / DH.
 

 

If they sign him, they'd be doing it to split duties(vs LHP and occasionally vs RHP) and as insurance in case Collins sucks. 

If the Sox got EE, in a best case scenario he gets 50% of the DH ABs. 

Collins could get ABs vs RHP if Grandal or Abreu need a day off or something. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

This guy might just be the next Frank Castillo, but who knows

[beck72]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Vaughn will be our 1B in 2021 and Abreu our DH.  Collins has no spot long term unless he proves he handle the backup catcher role.  Signing EE to a one year deal doesn’t change any of that.

I agree. Seeing how the Sox have McCann as the back up C for 2020, and Grandal for 4 years, Collins really doesn't have a spot for this year or next. I can see McCann's numbers reverting back to career norms and being the Sox backup in 2021

[GGajewski18]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

EE isn't short-sighted if they still give Collins DH ABs vs RHP. It's insurance if Collins sucks and a platoon partner for Collins. It's a 1 year deal. Pay him the $10M and still give Collins the ABs vs RHP in April and May. If Collins sucks, re-evaluate and DH EE full time. If not, continue the platoon. 

Also, they can still find ABs for Collins at 1B when Abreu needs a day off. 

If they sign EE, Renteria needs to be 100% committed to giving Collins DH duties vs RHP for at least the first 6 weeks of the season. 

Couldn't have said it better.  Sox struggled hitting HRs last year.  EE helps that, along with Collins against righties.  There is no risk here.  Collins will still get his ABs.

[NotHahn]

24 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

A rash of one-year, all-in type moves??

You mean 1 one year deal in Gio. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, GGajewski18 said:

Couldn't have said it better.  Sox struggled hitting HRs last year.  EE helps that, along with Collins against righties.  There is no risk here.  Collins will still get his ABs.

Thinking about it more, I'm fine with Encarnacion getting 50-55% of the ABs at DH(all vs LHP and occasionally vs RHP) and Collins can spell Abreu to keep him fresh. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't think they're actually looking at a full-time DH. I think Collins, Abreu, and Grandal are going to spend a lot of time there. They did say that Grandal was going to play a little 1B, so I'm pretty sure that the starting lineup is set and they're going to use a floating DH. 

So we should stop looking at players like Castellanos/Ozuna/EE and start looking at players like Steven Sousa. 

You should not be grouping EE with Ozuna & Castellanos.  EE is a one year bridge to Vaughn, those other guys are serious multi-year commitments that either block Vaughn or lock up RF for the near-term.  By going with Mazara in RF, they need more stability at DH if they’re serious about competing next year.  If that means putting Collins in a backup catcher / DH insurance policy role then so be it and I say that as someone who likes Collins.  I was all for a rotating DH spot amongst Grandal, McCann, & Collins, but resigning Abreu to a three year deal makes that experiment somewhat pointless with Vaughn right around the corner.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You should not be grouping EE with Ozuna & Castellanos.  EE is a one year bridge to Vaughn, those other guys are serious multi-year commitments that either block Vaughn or lock up RF for the near-term.  By going with Mazara in RF, they need more stability at DH if they’re serious about competing next year.  If that means putting Collins in a backup catcher / DH insurance policy role then so be it and I say that as someone who likes Collins.  I was all for a rotating DH spot amongst Grandal, McCann, & Collins, but resigning Abreu to a three year deal makes that experiment somewhat pointless with Vaughn right around the corner.

I really like Nomar Mazara and think that everyone will be surprised. 

I'm pretty bearish on Collins hit tool, but I think he's worth looking at because of the fact that he has massive power/OBP skills from the left side. Best case scenario, Collins is Kyle Schwarber. 

Just my opinion, but it would be malpractice to not at least give Collins a look at DH/1B after spending the 10th pick on him, when your lineup's biggest need is OBP and Power from the left side. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

30 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

It's great in a vacuum, but the Sox now seem to be making a rash of one-year, all-in type moves. Which is exactly what got them in the mess that required a rebuild in the first place. The cost of EE that matters isn't the money, it's the development time taken away from Zack Collins. If they get EE one a one-year deal and fall short, where will they be next offseason? Still wondering if Zack Collins can hit and still needing another bat.

The rotation is so thin, it made sense to get Gio, which is a similar signing, because he isn't taking time from anyone. But after Grandal, EE is short-sighted, IMO.

This I agree with. And I too am perfectly fine rolling with Collins and perhaps add a platoon RF with Mazara instead. But where is Collins gonna play long term? With Abreu locked up, Grandal signed and Vaughn at worst a mid 2021 arrival barring injury, he’s got no where to play. So if they decide to go the EE route, for that reason it makes a little sense. I would rather keep Collins in the org as opposed to trading him, though. 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This I agree with. And I too am perfectly fine rolling with Collins and perhaps add a platoon RF with Mazara instead. But where is Collins gonna play long term? With Abreu locked up, Grandal signed and Vaughn at worst a mid 2021 arrival barring injury, he’s got no where to play. So if they decide to go the EE route, for that reason it makes a little sense. I would rather keep Collins in the org as opposed to trading him, though. 

If Collins proves he can play, it turns Vaughn into a hell of a valuable trade chip to go get a SP to put them over the top. 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman