Bumgarner and AZ nearing 5 yr deal per Passan

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Now that Bumgarner is off the board, we've got Ryu and Keuchel left, but we have the White Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Twins, and maybe others still with pitching needs. Some of these teams will be missing.

How likely do you think the Sox are to get into a bidding war on the remaining two best starters available with multiple teams, who also happen to both be Boras clients?

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Now that Bumgarner is off the board, we've got Ryu and Keuchel left, but we have the White Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Twins, and maybe others still with pitching needs. Some of these teams will be missing.

Of course, but I also think that we’re more desperate than most of these other teams and also I think most of them may place a more conservative valuation on Keuchel.

[chetkincaid]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Now that Bumgarner is off the board, we've got Ryu and Keuchel left, but we have the White Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Twins, and maybe others still with pitching needs. Some of these teams will be missing.

The White Sox would have to offer WAY more money to get Ryu or Keuchel... and I still don’t think that would get them.  I can see both of them leaving White Sox money on the table to be with a team on the west coast or a team ready to contend. 

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

How likely do you think the Sox are to get into a bidding war on the remaining two best starters available with multiple teams, who also happen to both be Boras clients?

If I were being my normal personality on here I'd scoff at the notion, but at some point this team seriously needs to find a warm body who can pitch, if they don't find one then they're putting Kopech in the rotation to start the year and costing themselves money in the process. They may have no choice.

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If I were being my normal personality on here I'd scoff at the notion, but at some point this team seriously needs to find a warm body who can pitch, if they don't find one then they're putting Kopech in the rotation to start the year and costing themselves money in the process. They may have no choice.

If we know ANYTHING about the White Sox, it's that much...especially taking any unnecessary risks on the pitching side with their internally-controlled pitchers.

 

Beyond the Dodgers and Angels, you have the Twins, the Phillies (even after Wheeler), Cardinals, Reds, Padres, Blue Jays, etc., connected to the pitching market.

Not to mention those really smart teams (A's/Rays/Brewers) circling, that are seemingly always able to identify the right "value" plays at lower contact dollars.

Throw in another mystery team like the Rockies with seemingly a hundred different directions they could go.

The deck is stacked against us, even with "unprecedented financial flexibility."   Crazy how the Wheeler miss has just completely thrown the entire organization for a loop, just like KW was stupefied last year when Machado balked at signing.

[chetkincaid]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If I were being my normal personality on here I'd scoff at the notion, but at some point this team seriously needs to find a warm body who can pitch, if they don't find one then they're putting Kopech in the rotation to start the year and costing themselves money in the process. They may have no choice.

Julio Teheran

Ivan Nova

Alex Wood

Wade Miley

Taijuan Walker

 

That’s what we’re working with. Choose 2 of them. 

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

Julio Teheran

Ivan Nova

Alex Wood

Wade Miley

Taijuan Walker

 

That’s what we’re working with. Choose 2 of them. 

We haven't seen Rich Hill's name out there recently...keep reading where he had some type of surgery and might miss half the season, but, if that's the case, 90% chance he ends up staying with LAD or retires.

At any rate, Walker and Wood would be too risky, together.  You need to pair one of those names with a more stable outcome.  Gio Gonzalez's name will start popping up again, too.  KW always gets him man (back)?

 

I'm pretty sure the ticket office is reading those names and thinking how much easier their next 4 months of work would/could have been had they simply been able to get Wheeler into the fold.  Of course, the same is equally true in Minnesota, who had Bumgarner as their top target after Wheeler was scooped up.

Might have to trade with the Mets if they fall out of it in the first half and decide to get rid of some of their excess pitching (Stroman/Wacha/Porcello)...that's going to be a tough road with the Braves, Nationals and Phillies.   Thor and de Grom are likely to be well out of their acceptable price range in terms of prospect targets.

10 names.

I could have simply said trade with the Mets, but it's not so simple.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by caulfield12

[Sox80]

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Kind of nuts not to be in on MadBum at 5/$85.

Well when you have no intention of spending not really. 

[ChiSox59]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We haven't seen Rich Hill's name out there recently...keep reading where he had some type of surgery and might miss half the season, but, if that's the case, 90% chance he ends up staying with LAD or retires.

At any rate, Walker and Wood would be too risky, together.  You need to pair one of those names with a more stable outcome.  Gio Gonzalez's name will start popping up again, too.  KW always gets him man (back)?

 

I'm pretty sure the ticket office is reading those names and thinking how much easier their next 4 months of work would/could have been had they simply been able to get Wheeler into the fold.  Of course, the same is equally true in Minnesota, who had Bumgarner as their top target after Wheeler was scooped up.

Might have to trade with the Mets if they fall out of it in the first half and decide to get rid of some of their excess pitching (Stroman/Wacha/Porcello)...that's going to be a tough road with the Braves, Nationals and Phillies.   Thor and de Grom are likely to be well out of their acceptable price range in terms of prospect targets.

10 names.

I could have simply said trade with the Mets, but it's not so simple.

 

Rich Hill is in fact injured and just had a TJS alternative surgery. He’s not an option. 

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is a 0% chance Keuchel is taking a 1 year deal.  More likely 3/$50M or more.

EDIT: Ignore my post.  You’re saying Keuchel and another starter signed to a 1 year deal.  If so, I agree.

Correct to the edit. Obviously Keuchel is not signing a 1 year deal. 

[ChiSox59]

I like the McHugh idea, perhaps as the third guy. We could easily park him in the pen. Keuchel + Wood/Walker + McHugh is about as good as we can hope for at this juncture. With Wood and Walkers injury history, would be nice to have a vet swing man like McHugh. 

[Wisebri224]

So we are now just to a point where as long as a pitcher is signed better than Covey we are satisfied. Oh well just sign Ryu or Keuchel at 2 for 20 LOL

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

So we are now just to a point where as long as a pitcher is signed better than Covey we are satisfied. Oh well just sign Ryu or Keuchel at 2 for 20 LOL

This is what happens to your expectations as a fan when you have bad ownership and front office management that you have little to no faith in.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I don't give a shit what they sign for just sign one of them.

[Wisebri224]

They won’t though. If you wouldn’t pay for Bum at 85, you aren’t getting the other two. I would rather have had Bum at 5/85 than Price at 3/55 and give up prospects. We are going dumpster diving again. Carry on. At times I wonder why we bother talking until February when the clearance rack opens up 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

They won’t though. If you wouldn’t pay for Bum at 85, you aren’t getting the other two. I would rather have had Bum at 5/85 than Price at 3/55 and give up prospects. We are going dumpster diving again. Carry on. At times I wonder why we bother talking until February when the clearance rack opens up 

The clearance rack is already open and we haven’t signed any of those guys, so for now we should remain cautiously optimistic until Ryu & Keuchel sign elsewhere. 

[caulfield12]

47 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rich Hill is in fact injured and just had a TJS alternative surgery. He’s not an option. 

That's where they can think about one of those two-year deals like the Padres signed with Garrett Richards...this is probably something I wouldn't feel comfortable with until I had a much better idea where Carlos Rodon was going to be for 2021.

If there are major pitching issues (again) this season, they're going to have to get REALLY creative if they want to compete next year.

[Moan4Yoan]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The clearance rack is already open and we haven’t signed any of those guys, so for now we should remain cautiously optimistic until Ryu & Keuchel sign elsewhere. 

Remember last summer when the expectations were Grandal, one of Castellanos/Ozuna, and one of Wheeler/Bumgarner because the Sox were going to spend big?

Edited December 16, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Remember last summer when the expectations were Grandal, Ozuna, and one of Wheeler/Bumgarner?

They completely misread the market...or didn't anticipate it, based on the past two off-seasons (and the exponentially-increasing number of early contract extensions signed, taking high-quality players off the market, one after another).  

Or they simply invested too much time and effort into Wheeler without considering the possibility they wouldn't end up signing him.

Now, it's almost like they're waiting the market out to see if there are any compelling bargains still remaining in February/March.  Sigh.

Edited December 16, 2019 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Remember last summer when the expectations were Grandal, Ozuna, and one of Wheeler/Bumgarner?

I mean, it’s pretty clear they didn’t want Bumgarner.  And honestly I’d prefer Ryu to Bumgarner so that would be a net positive, although I still think we land Keuchel.  It’s too bad we got spurred by Wheeler though.  He was about as good as we could do on the pitching front.  

I’m not really mad about Ozuna given the questionable fit (still would have been excited by his addition) if they’re planning to be aggressive on OFs next offseason, I just find Mazara underwhelming as a stopgap if we’re actually trying to compete next year.

[SoCalChiSox]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They completely misread the market...or didn't anticipate it, based on the past two off-seasons (and the exponentially-increasing number of early contract extensions signed, taking high-quality players off the market, one after another).  

Or they simply invested too much time and effort into Wheeler without considering the possibility they wouldn't end up signing him.

Now, it's almost like they're waiting the market out to see if there are any compelling bargains still remaining in February/March.  Sigh.

Hahn did say something was gonna get done in "the next couple weeks... hopefully sooner rather than later" so he's boxed himself into doing something. He can't just do nothing till February. 

[Orlando]

54 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

So we are now just to a point where as long as a pitcher is signed better than Covey we are satisfied. Oh well just sign Ryu or Keuchel at 2 for 20 LOL

Sad but I am honestly at that point. I have little hope that they will pony up for Kuechel or Ryu. Just don’t give me freaking Dylan Covey

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Sad but I am honestly at that point. I have little hope that they will pony up for Kuechel or Ryu. Just don’t give me freaking Dylan Covey

That would make Fulmer, Despaigne and Detwiler almost interesting again.   Well, it could be Adams or Danish, that would arguably be worse, but Covey's all-time win-loss record must be close to an MLB record (in a bad way) for someone for over 20 or 30 career decisions.

I guess Mike Norris back in the early 1980's with the A's had a similarly abysmal record.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

It's not that I'm scared of the last year, it's that with higher floor low ceiling guys you aren't getting a ton of WAR in the beginning to make up for the investment being bad later. He's like a 2.5 win guy and then it just goes down from there. He's already in his 30s and doesn't strike out anyone. 

The plan was to get a 2 and a 4/5. Here, we have two 4/5s and no 2s or even 3s. 

I just expect a little more especially when Hahn says stupid stuff like dont look at Mazara in isolation look at what it allows us to do. Ok, I'm looking at what it allows you to do and I'm pretty damn sure you could have spent 50-60 on a pitcher even if you had signed an OF for another 50-60. So in my mind if you are gonna get 2 guys and one is DK, you still gotta get a 2, not Wood. Wood is your 5.

If you get DK for 50-60, then use the other 60 from Wheeler to buy a bad contract (NOT price) in exchange for getting a legit young controlled 2/3.

 

You think Ryu is a 4/5 ? The guy came in 2nd in the Cy Young in the NL. I understand the injury concerns but he's at least a 2 when healthy. A 2 on the Sox for sure. Keuchel would be probably also a 2 on the Sox. Who would be ahead of him besides Giolito ?

Edited December 16, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[SoCalChiSox]

34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You think Ryu is a 4/5 ? The guy came in 2nd in the Cy Young in the NL. I understand the injury concerns but he's at least a 2 when healthy. A 2 on the Sox for sure. Keuchel would be probably also a 2 on the Sox. Who would be ahead of him besides Giolito ?

I agree Ryu would fit the bill if healthy ofcourse. I was referring to Keuchel. If they got Keuchel and Wood then they failed to get a 2 and a 4/5.