What would it take to get Nolan Arenado?

[GreenSox]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For Dunning and Stiever - there's no obvious reason why those 2 aren't replaceable.

Theoretically, yes,  But despite some cw, the Sox haven't been particularly adept at developing starting pitching.  Who is the last starting pitcher to come through the system, pillar to post?

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Theoretically, yes,  But despite some cw, the Sox haven't been particularly adept at developing starting pitching.  Who is the last starting pitcher to come through the system, pillar to post?

Assuming that Rodon is a bust as I'm doing...Chris Sale. 

But at this point, whether or not the White Sox have a strong starting rotation is going to depend entirely on the guys they traded for, because they went heavily in on trading for those guys. 

They haven't been particularly adept at developing position players either. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Well yes, given that they rank in the top 5 in all of baseball in WAR generated via the draft so... uh yeah.

so they're 2nd in all of baseball. I'll say the sox did pretty damn well.

I think if you look at the last five years or so you could argue with great conviction that we have been terrible at drafting.  So while saying we have been great at drafting over the past 10 years may technically be true, the reality is the Sale, Semien, & Anderson picks from the first half of the decade don’t really reflect our current struggles and is therefore completely disingenuous to the argument at hand.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think if you look at the last five years or so you could argue with great conviction that we have been terrible at drafting.  So while saying we have been great at drafting over the past 10 years may technically be true, the reality is the Sale, Semien, & Anderson picks from the first half of the decade don’t really reflect our current struggles and is therefore completely disingenuous to the argument at hand.

No one in their right mind judges a baseball draft 3 and 4 years removed from said draft.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

55 minutes ago, bmags said:

I buy this but also this is the rockies. If rex grossman were an mlb front office it would be the rockies.

The ballpark messes with the front offfice as much as it messes with the pitchers.  They just can't find an organizational philosophy on how to develop pitchers and stick with it.  

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No one in their right mind judges a baseball draft 3 and 4 years removed from said draft.

Then how are you judging an entire decade when 30% to 40% of the drafts can’t be reviewed?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

55 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Then how are you judging an entire decade when 30% to 40% of the drafts can’t be reviewed?

BA does the decade every close, but it might as well be a "who had the best first 6 years." 

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Then how are you judging an entire decade when 30% to 40% of the drafts can’t be reviewed?

2010 is the first year reviewed which includes Sale.  Don’t go back before that cuz it gets ugly.

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Assuming that Rodon is a bust as I'm doing...Chris Sale. 

But at this point, whether or not the White Sox have a strong starting rotation is going to depend entirely on the guys they traded for, because they went heavily in on trading for those guys. 

They haven't been particularly adept at developing position players either. 

There have been a few - in the cherished up the middle positions.  But, the front office just didn't know what they had.

Honestly, were this not a post Tatis giveaway-world (and post  Semien/Escobar), the Sox might have been more active on the trading front...they do need to cull some prospects if not now, very soon.  But they've, understandably,  turned very conservative re trading prospects, to my great relief as a fan.

Re pitching, I only look at stats and do some basic reading - but Stiever appears to be the best they've drafted and developed in a long time.

[Moan4Yoan]

17 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

There have been a few - in the cherished up the middle positions.  But, the front office just didn't know what they had.

Honestly, were this not a post Tatis giveaway-world (and post  Semien/Escobar), the Sox might have been more active on the trading front...they do need to cull some prospects if not now, very soon.  But they've, understandably,  turned very conservative re trading prospects, to my great relief as a fan.

Re pitching, I only look at stats and do some basic reading - but Stiever appears to be the best they've drafted and developed in a long time.

Exactly my point.  And how much credit should the Sox get for failing to recognize this talent?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

2010 is the first year reviewed which includes Sale.  Don’t go back before that cuz it gets ugly.

So you cant defend your position so you're resorting to a goal post move? Got it.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Moan4Yoan]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So you cant defend your position so you're resorting to a goal post move? Got it.

You have already placed the goal posts within a 6 year period of time, while portraying it as a 10 year period.  Got it?

And why can’t one go back further?  Kenny is still around afterall.  If the sample selection of years is too short, you go back further in time.

You are quite possibly the only Sox fan in existence who could say with a straight face that the Sox have drafted well over the years.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You have already placed the goal posts within a 6 year period of time, while portraying it as a 10 year period.  Got it?

And why can’t one go back further?  Kenny is still around afterall.  If the sample selection of years is too short, you go back further in time.

You are quite possibly the only Sox fan in existence who could say with a straight face that the Sox have drafted well over the years.

Over the years? I said in the past decade theyve drafted well. It's a fact regardless of how many times you want to disagree with it. It happened, you were wrong and its OK.

[Moan4Yoan]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Over the years? I said in the past decade theyve drafted well. It's a fact regardless of how many times you want to disagree with it. It happened, you were wrong and its OK.

But it’s not really a decade, it’s basically six years because you admitted that draft picks in the last three to four years can’t truly be assessed yet...

Congrats, the Sox have drafted well in an arbitrary six year period of time.  We should all be thrilled.  Amazing statistic.  Now I know why Kenny is still employed after years of awful drafting previous to this six year period of time.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Yeah they cant be assessed, but Madrigal and Vaughn sure look solid to me.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah they cant be assessed, but Madrigal and Vaughn sure look solid to me.

They’re also top four overall draft picks and were the highest floor guys available.  I was all for those picks BTW, but am not going to give the Sox too much credit for them.  If Madrigal turns into a star and not just a solid two win player, I’ll happily give them far more credit for that pick.

I totally agree it’s too early to evaluate the last five drafts, but the reality they have zero top 100 prospects and zero quality major leaguers (again it’s early) outside of those two high picks under Hostetler.  The early returns aren’t promising and that’s incredibly frustrating given how well Hahn did in his core rebuild trades.  The reality is our failure to supplement via the draft could be costly when we need to trade for reinforcements in a few years.

So again, saying we’ve been great at drafting primarily because of an amazing pick 10 years ago is not very relevant to our current situation.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by Chicago White Sox

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They’re also top four overall draft picks and were the highest floor guys available.  I was all for those picks BTW, but am not going to give the Sox too much credit for them.  If Madrigal turns into a star and not just a solid two win player, I’ll happily give them far more credit for that pick.

I totally agree it’s too early to evaluate the last five drafts, but the reality they have zero top 100 prospects and zero quality major leaguers (again it’s early) outside of those two high picks under Hostetler.  The early returns aren’t promising and that’s incredibly frustrating given how well Hahn did in his core rebuild trades.  The reality is our failure to supplement via the draft could be costly when we need to trade for reinforcements in a few years.

So again, saying we’ve been great at drafting primarily because of an amazing pick 10 years ago is not very relevant to our current situation.  

One amazing pick? 

So you dont give credit for multiple picks at the beginning of the decade through 2015, and then you also wont give them credit for Madrigal or Vaughn because they were higher picks. This is some incredible mental gymnastics.

Plenty of top 5 picks bust. The astros took mark Appel #1. The Twins took Kohl Stewart 4th. I could go on and on. Every year multiple top 5 picks end up being blah.

Of course the White Sox deserve credit. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[fathom]

Surprised that this thread didn’t blow up with Morosi’s column saying Sox are a potential suitor

[Vote4Pedro]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Surprised that this thread didn’t blow up with Morosi’s column saying Sox are a potential suitor

Steve Stone threw some ice water on that last night. Pretty definitive response by him. ?

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One amazing pick? 

So you dont give credit for multiple picks at the beginning of the decade through 2015, and then you also wont give them credit for Madrigal or Vaughn because they were higher picks. This is some incredible mental gymnastics.

Plenty of top 5 picks bust. The astros took mark Appel #1. The Twins took Kohl Stewart 4th. I could go on and on. Every year multiple top 5 picks end up being blah.

Of course the White Sox deserve credit. 

My point is decade is an arbitrary cutoff when deciding if the Sox are a good drafting club.  Exclude the 2010 draft and the total WAR accumulated is vastly different.

Let me ask you this, can you say with a straight face that the Sox have been a good drafting club under Hostetler?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

My point is decade is an arbitrary cutoff when deciding if the Sox are a good drafting club.  Exclude the 2010 draft and the total WAR accumulated is vastly different.

Let me ask you this, can you say with a straight face that the Sox have been a good drafting club under Hostetler?

Hard to evaluate hostetler when he took over in 2015. He has been a part of some pretty decent results 2011-on. Hahn and Hostetler certainly havent failed in the draft and if Mad and Vaughn are impact players and Collins is a long time big leaguer then I'd say they did exceptional - stiever being a bonus.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

But it’s not really a decade, it’s basically six years because you admitted that draft picks in the last three to four years can’t truly be assessed yet...

Congrats, the Sox have drafted well in an arbitrary six year period of time.  We should all be thrilled.  Amazing statistic.  Now I know why Kenny is still employed after years of awful drafting previous to this six year period of time.

I don't know what you don't understand. It's the start of a new decade so people make All Decade teams in baseball. Many of the players who were the best of the 2010's decade only played 4/5/6/7 years in the last 10 but were so good that you can pick them as the best regardless of the years they played in the last 10.

Everybody had their chance to say how bad the Sox drafted when the 2000's were reviewed. Ray Ray is just reviewing the decade as a whole therefore no 2009 only 2010-2019.

Since the Sox. like a lot of other teams, don't find good draft picks every year you are only judging the guys who do appear to be good choices. If its 3 or 4  or 5 or 6 players in  those many years it's still judging the whole decade because that's  what writers, analysts do at the start of a new decade. They look back on the past decade.

[GreenSox]

7 hours ago, fathom said:

Surprised that this thread didn’t blow up with Morosi’s column saying Sox are a potential suitor

I can see national media speculating that way; Vaughn or Madrigal would be very appealing to Colorado and they look at Vaughn blocked by Abreu and Madrigal blocked by Moncada.  And then add Kopech.
Of course, trading one of those guys (or any good pitching) for a 2 year player would be insane.  

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

I can see national media speculating that way; Vaughn or Madrigal would be very appealing to Colorado and they look at Vaughn blocked by Abreu and Madrigal blocked by Moncada.  And then add Kopech.
Of course, trading one of those guys (or any good pitching) for a 2 year player would be insane.  

I'd trade Madrigal or Vaughn, Dunning and Stiever for Arenado in an instant if they could re-work his contract to have the opt-out removed. 

If the opt out remains, I'd do Madrigal/Adolfo. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Kpet1010]

This guy had the betts to dodgers trade. Could be a crackpot or got lucky but he says arenado to white sox. Really random team to pick if you ask me.