Keuchel to Sox, 3 years, 55.55 million; 4th year team option

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

so I am still not certain about the vesting option...

 

It is 160 innings in the FINAL year OR 160 innings combined between the final two?  aka, 80 innings and 80 innings will vest it.

Have they done a formal introduction to the guy yet? Usually that's when full contract details get published. I'd imagine that stuff like that is shut down until the holiday ends so that people actually see the press conference article. 

[ptatc]

38 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The Dodgers, the A's say hi.

I'd include the Astros but someone keeps banging on a trashcan every time I type their name.

I think you aren't following the conversation. It started out with why the NL/AL East seem to have the best conferences.  I asked if it was the concentration of population and that lead to increased revenue. To which someone replied it was the FO that made the difference.  So I asked if only the east coast teams can have a good FO because that doesnt make sense.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think you aren't following the conversation. It started out with why the NL/AL East seem to have the best conferences.  I asked if it was the concentration of population and that lead to increased revenue. To which someone replied it was the FO that made the difference.  So I asked if only the east coast teams can have a good FO because that doesnt make sense.

I complied this yesterday for another reason, but by "Average WAR amongst the teams in the division" the NL and AL East weren't the best last year, the NL and AL West were the 2 best divisions. The Easts are dragged down by the 2-3 rebuilding teams at the bottom.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, cjgalloway said:

so I am still not certain about the vesting option...

 

It is 160 innings in the FINAL year OR 160 innings combined between the final two?  aka, 80 innings and 80 innings will vest it.

Not clear yet. Should be clarified when Sox officially announce the deal. But I read it as 160 innings in both the 21 and 22 seasons for 23 to vest. Not 160 combined between the two. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, cjgalloway said:

so I am still not certain about the vesting option...

 

It is 160 innings in the FINAL year OR 160 innings combined between the final two?  aka, 80 innings and 80 innings will vest it.

Sounds like 160 innings in both years, which is far from a certainty and something that can very much be managed in 2022.  Hell, by 2022 I’m hoping he’s our clear #4 starter behind Giolito, Kopech, Cease, & Dunning.  If so, just skip him on a few off days and he’ll be below 160 innings.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

So only the east coast teams are good at hiring FO people.

Interesting hypothesis. 

I suppose one could draw comparisons between Rust Belt/Heartland economies and California/Silicon Valley/Seattle.

Texas is more or less the anomaly in the middle...and the Astros have never been a “Western” team, per se.

Other than the Cubs, Cardinals (still more like a mid-market due to t.v. contract) and Tigers under Ilitch, none of those teams in flyover territory operate or have succeeded like large market teams.

Yet the Rockies (cutting back), DBacks, Padres, Mariners, Giants and Angels all are running bigger budgets than the majority of Central teams.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sounds like 160 innings in both years, which is far from a certainty and something that can very much be managed in 2022.  Hell, by 2022 I’m hoping he’s our clear #4 starter behind Giolito, Kopech, Cease, & Dunning.  If so, just skip him on a few off days and he’ll be below 160 innings.

If he's healthy, it would seem pretty certain unless he's pitching like shit and they straight up release him the second year.

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

If he's healthy, it would seem pretty certain unless he's pitching like shit and they straight up release him the second year.

If he’s the #5 starter, skip him once a month and he’ll get 26 starts.  Unless he averages more than 6 innings per start, that would put him below 160 for the year.

[Sarava]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If he’s the #5 starter, skip him once a month and he’ll get 26 starts.  Unless he averages more than 6 innings per start, that would put him below 160 for the year.

If it's indeed 160 inning per year, that's easy to block if necessary. I'm not so sure that's the case though.

[Chisox378]

Great signing by the Sox! Merry Christmas to you all!

[greg775]

So I've been busy and can't read the whole thread. Is there 100 percent consensus we love this new Sox pitcher? I have a couple simple questions. Thanx in advance.

a.) Do we literally love getting Keuchel? Nirvana type loving it?

b.) How do we judge him in a Sox jersey since Ws and Ls don't matter. Pure innings pitched and ERA? Ks vs. walks?

c.) Does the addition of him combined with our stud youngsters in everyday lineup assure a title?

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

So I've been busy and can't read the whole thread. Is there 100 percent consensus we love this new Sox pitcher? I have a couple simple questions. Thanx in advance.

a.) Do we literally love getting Keuchel? Nirvana type loving it?

b.) How do we judge him in a Sox jersey since Ws and Ls don't matter. Pure innings pitched and ERA? Ks vs. walks?

c.) Does the addition of him combined with our stud youngsters in everyday lineup assure a title?

He was the best possible fit under the circumstances, especially due to his ability to work with Grandal as one of the top pitch framers in the sport.

We overpaid by a bit, but he's got a ton of playoff/World Series experienced, well-respected veteran, Cy Young, etc.

The bottom line is we now have an opportunity to compete and we still have the financial flexibility to add at the deadline, Keuchel and Grandal are the only moves (along with Abreu) affecting the heart of the contention window from 2021-2023.

[wrathofhahn]

On 12/22/2019 at 6:39 PM, caulfield12 said:

Wheeler is obviously younger than Keuchel , but there’s no guarantee on the health of Cole or Strasburg, either.  The more you study the career arcs of guys with 97+ average fastballs, especially after it took Zack 2 1/2 years for him to make a full comeback last time...there’s just a lot of ways for that deal to go wrong.

Other than signing Rendon for the rest of his career at age 31 or Machado/Harper/Betts, not sure who you’re pining for here.

It wouldn’t be shocking for the Phillies to still miss out on the playoffs in that division, fwiw.

 

Fine but Keuchel is what 32? We really have no idea how he is going to age moving forward he throws 89 MPH as it is if he loses a cpl MPH as he gets older he gets in James Shields territory. I understand the article about how Dallas avoids the heart of the plate at all costs but he also gets guys to chase at around 34 percent of his pitches and lives off his breaking ball. All this could fall apart rather quickly if stuff starts to age even a little he is already on the knifes edge and his FIP reflects that.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Fine but Keuchel is what 32? We really have no idea how he is going to age moving forward he throws 89 MPH as it is if he loses a cpl MPH as he gets older he gets in James Shields territory. I understand the article about how Dallas avoids the heart of the plate at all costs but he also gets guys to chase at around 34 percent of his pitches and lives off his breaking ball. All this could fall apart rather quickly if stuff starts to age even a little he is already on the knifes edge and his FIP reflects that.

How many pitchers in the last five years have responded well to missing 2-3 months of the season?  How many many big improvements in the following year?

[Balta1701]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

How many pitchers in the last five years have responded well to missing 2-3 months of the season?  How many many big improvements in the following year?

How many pitchers in the last decade have missed 3 months of a season for reasons other than injury?

[mqr]

I have a feeling many are going to very negatively react when Keuchal is just kinda average. 

[Balta1701]

23 minutes ago, mqr said:

I have a feeling many are going to very negatively react when Keuchal is just kinda average. 

If he's kinda average and throws 175 innings for this team, that's good enough for now. "Kinda average" is a lot better than pretty much any moderately expensive FA signing has been for this franchise over the last decade. 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he's kinda average and throws 175 innings for this team, that's good enough for now. "Kinda average" is a lot better than pretty much any moderately expensive FA signing has been for this franchise over the last decade. 

If I could lock in 27 starts, 160 innings, a 4.20 ERA I'd do it.   Just eat some innings and keep the team in the game.  On paper the offense should be more than capable of winning a few games 7-5.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

If I could lock in 27 starts, 160 innings, a 4.20 ERA I'd do it.   Just eat some innings and keep the team in the game.  On paper the offense should be more than capable of winning a few games 7-5.

I'd do that too. My worry is that we've signed guys from that $10-$20 million/season for a veteran range where league-wide the bust rate has been something like 75% and the rate for the White Sox has been darn near 100%. I'm trying to turn off the panic button in my brain that says the same thing is going to happen to all 3 of the White Sox's big signings but it'll take actually seeing 160 innings and a 4.20 ERA for me to believe we can sign someone who doesn't immediately have their shoulder go John Danks on us.

[mqr]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he's kinda average and throws 175 innings for this team, that's good enough for now. "Kinda average" is a lot better than pretty much any moderately expensive FA signing has been for this franchise over the last decade. 

Well yeah, I'm just saying I think there's a chunk of fans that are expecting like an all star or something. 

[Orlando]

Blue Jays have already announced Ryu. Why haven’t the Sox announced Kuechel? 

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

Blue Jays have already announced Ryu. Why haven’t the Sox announced Kuechel? 

It’s Keuchel, and it may just be taking a physical or some holiday break reason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Orlando said:

Blue Jays have already announced Ryu. Why haven’t the Sox announced Kuechel? 

Not all signings are created equally.

[BamaDoc]

On 12/26/2019 at 1:37 PM, Balta1701 said:

If he's kinda average and throws 175 innings for this team, that's good enough for now. "Kinda average" is a lot better than pretty much any moderately expensive FA signing has been for this franchise over the last decade. 

If he is “kinda average “ that would be a tremendous improvement over what we trotted out there on many occasions!

[SonofaRoache]

On 12/26/2019 at 1:48 PM, mqr said:

Well yeah, I'm just saying I think there's a chunk of fans that are expecting like an all star or something. 

A chunk of fans like who? DK and Gio are much better than the trash we had last year. A pitcher that gives us a good chance to win most nights is the expectation. Hopefully, by the end of next season, DK is our 4th or 5th best starter and Gio is in the bullpen.