Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lillian said: I agree. Moreover, he isn't going to sign a one year deal, to be platooned. He wouldn't have much of an opportunity to improve his stock, batting exclusively against left handed pitching. I think Nick would start most games with Mazara basically filling across four spots (RF, LF, DH, & effectively 1B). Again, on a one year deal I’d be fine with that setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think Nick would start most games with Mazara basically filling across four spots (RF, LF, DH, & effectively 1B). Again, on a one year deal I’d be fine with that setup. Do you really think that he would get any playing time in LF, with Eloy there? Why would he get any of the DH at bats, with E. E. there? They're all right handed hitters. I don't see the logic in that. Given his poor defense, the only place I see that he would fit, would be as a platoon partner with Mazara, taking the AB's versus LH pitching and I don't know why he would sign a one year contract, accepting such a limited role. Moreover, even if he would accept such a limited role, it would be hard to justify spending that much money to acquire him, under those circumstances. Edited January 22, 2020 by Lillian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lillian said: Do you really think that he would get any playing time in LF, with Eloy there? Why would he get any of the DH at bats, with E. E. there? They're all right handed hitters. I don't see the logic in that. Given his poor defense, the only place I see that he would fit, would be as a platoon partner with Mazara, taking the AB's versus LH pitching and I don't know why he would sign a one year contract, accepting such a limited role. I’m taking about Nomar and I think it’s pretty fair to think he could get 80+ starts against RHP in that setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’m taking about Nomar and I think it’s pretty fair to think he could get 80+ starts against RHP in that setup. I see. So, you would be willing to just put Castellanos in RF and accept his poor defense. Well, that is one possibility, but I'm not sure how much sense that makes. At any rate, thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, Lillian said: I see. So, you would be willing to just put Castellanos in RF and accept his poor defense. Well, that is one possibility, but I'm not sure how much sense that makes. At any rate, thanks for the clarification. That’s exactly why I’d only commit one year to him at this time. If the defense is so detrimental you can move on from him after the season or possibly even flip him at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That’s exactly why I’d only commit one year to him at this time. If the defense is so detrimental you can move on from him after the season or possibly even flip him at the deadline. That's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, KillahPriest said: What about Springer, though? He won't demand that type of money. Springer is likely to sign an extension in the coming months according to some Houston people I know. If not, he wants to go back to the Northeast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Why are people not remembering Mazara is also a bad defender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, Lillian said: I see. So, you would be willing to just put Castellanos in RF and accept his poor defense. Well, that is one possibility, but I'm not sure how much sense that makes. At any rate, thanks for the clarification. As of now we have to accept Mazara's bad defense and limited bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: As of now we have to accept Mazara's bad defense and limited bat. Which is why this trade is hot shit. He doesn't do anything good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) If you sign Castellanos and fail to move Mazara, then your bench would be McCann, Mazara (corner OF/can start when injuries injuries to Eloy, EE, Abreu, Castellanos), Leury as primary backup IF or main purpose as the utility guy, and Engel or infielder (dependant on what you want out of Leury). Edited January 22, 2020 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Why are people not remembering Mazara is also a bad defender? Below average <> epically bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Below average <> epically bad Does Castellanos’s better bat make up for the difference between his worse defense than Mazara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said: Why are people not remembering Mazara is also a bad defender? Mazara is a slightly below average OF. Castellanos is legitimately one of the very worst defensive OF in the game. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sarava said: Jerry Reinsdorf is not going to shell out $350 mil for Betts. Why do you guys keep torturing yourselves with this impossible fantasy? It's not torture imagining a great player like Betts or even a pretty good one like Springer or Pederson in RF. It is torture thinking you signed Mazara and people want to dismiss his 30-40 HR potential and then sign another RF in Castellanos for 2 or 3 years on top of that while giving the young OF's in the system no chance to develop. Sox aren't winning a World Series this year unless the young starting pitching all miraculously pitches lights out along with Gio and Keuchel. It might also be torture trying to win a World Series with bad defense in both corners. The team needs a year to let things play out with too many young players. There's not a single reason to get Castellanos unless you are already punting on Mazara and somehow can get more for him than we gave up this late in the off season when TX couldn't earlier in the off season. Edited January 22, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: Easy question, easy answer. The Sox signing Castellanos for 3/$54 is a lot more likely than signing Betts or even Springer. Not that easy of question or answer because we're just fans sitting on the outside. We have no idea what JR and Hahn have discussed in terms of budget & plan. There's so much that can change between today and this time next year that we can't really realistically say what is the most likely. Betts? Yes, he's probably a long shot. However, we did offer Machado $250mm last offseason. We offered Wheeler $125mm. Who knows how this season goes. We may look terrible. Robert may continue to get injured and not realize his potential. Giolito may regress. Anderson may turn back into Anderson of a few years ago both offensively and defensively. Abreu may continue to age and decline quicker than expected. Madrigal might turn out to be a glorified #9 hitter, Moncada could fall back into old ways. Eloy may take another year to figure it out. Kopech may struggle with command, likewise Cease. ORRRRR. All of those people could take a step forward and play well and we win 90 games. Likewise, who knows what we get out of Adolfo and Rutherford this year -- maybe the take a giant step forward. Maybe Vaughn does too. Dunning, etc. It's all a fart in the wind. Seeing as were not winning a world series this year, I think its probably smart to be patient rather than signing Castanellos to a 3 year deal when we know he does have some flaws in his game and we won't really have a place to hide him if those worsen instead of improve (Abreu/Vaughn DH & 1b). If you can get him on a 1 or 2 year deal then it makes more sense. a 2 year deal could still work as you figure your minors, trade options, etc. I'm not always the most optimistic, but I truly believe we'll have Springer or Betts in uniform come next year. My best educated guess is we finish with 83-86 wins this year and miss out on the playoffs. I think Uncle Jerry is old, rich, and truly does want to win and understands this is the time to push the pedal down. The money will be spent... and they really haven't spent it. Robert and Eloy is not money spent ... it's a fixed expense instead of arbitration and the CBA. Those numbers should not be included in the $300mm or so. Likewise EE and these 1 year deals don't count really in my mind. I think at the end of this year, outside crazy development from Adolfo, Gonzalez & Rutherford, etc. that we'll be in the market for a RF and will be making a 9 figure offer to someone to fill that hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: It's not torture imagining a great player like Betts or even a pretty good one like Springer or Pederson in RF. Pederson is realistic. I don’t think Betts or Springer are at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Take a look at Castanellos stats compared to Mazara and there is not much difference the last 4 years. Granted he did play in a harder hitters park than Mazara so that has to be accounted for. I will take the Mazara upside for 1 year with a left handed bat in the lineup ( which is huge for us with all the righties we have now and coming up) over paying Castanellos. It's a no brainer imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Pederson is realistic. I don’t think Betts or Springer are at all. We shall see. A lot of people thought we had a legit shot at Machado . Granted the payroll was lower then but you still would've had to make some signings around him anyway. Just replace Machado with Betts only now we get a for year a lot of young guys to get better. If Mazara sucks he's non-tendered ,if he hits 35 HR's trade him , Colome money gone, Encarnacion money gone. Herrera money gone. Gio Gonzales money gone. That's about $30M right there. Of course we'll need a few good bullpen pieces but again we can have a year to see if any of the ones in the system can become good Edited January 22, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: We shall see. A lot of people thought we had a legit shot at Machado . Granted the payroll was lower then but you still would've had to make some signings around him anyway. Just replace Machado with Betts only now we get a year a lot of young guys to get better. If Mazara sucks he's non-tendered ,if he hits 35 HR's trade him , Colome money gone, Encarnacion money gone. Herrera money gone. Gio Gonzales money gone. That's about $30M right there. Of course we'll need a few good bullpen pieces but again we can have a year to see if any of the ones in the system can become good Yeah that's $30 million but we'll have no closer, and Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all hit arbitration. So we save $30 million but need a closer and have $20m or more in new arbitration payments to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, Balta1701 said: Yeah that's $30 million but we'll have no closer, and Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all hit arbitration. So we save $30 million but need a closer and have $20m or more in new arbitration payments to make. We'll know more about this after we see Burdi and Johnson in the MLB. I wouldn't discount Bummer either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Pederson is realistic. I don’t think Betts or Springer are at all. I don't think Betts is "realistic", but I think Sox should have better than 1/10 shot. Assuming they don't sign NC to a 3 year deal in the next couple weeks, the White Sox will be one of a handful of teams that will definitely be in the bidding for Betts. Will they land him? Chances are they won't, but its a lot easier to drop that kind of cash on 1 player when you don't have a bunch of other holes to fill. 2021 payroll should be right around $100M after arb, so its not like they don't have room and RF and perhaps a pen arm or two are (hopefully) going to be the only big holes to fill next offseason. Punting any ability to play in the RF FA market next offseason just so we can run a DH out in RF for the next 3 seasons that is only a slightly above average hitter against RHP is so so so so so shortsighted unless it is a 1 year deal. Edited January 22, 2020 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Yeah that's $30 million but we'll have no closer, and Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez all hit arbitration. So we save $30 million but need a closer and have $20m or more in new arbitration payments to make. I know there will be those others things but the starting point is probably less than $100 maybe closer to $90 right ? You tell me. Is $150M payroll out of the question next year? $140M ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I know there will be those others things but the starting point is probably less than $100 maybe closer to $90 right ? You tell me. Is $150M payroll out of the question next year? $140M ? Just ran through it and it should be right around $100M including all arb plauyers with generous arb 1 raises for Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Bummer and Fry. This also assumes EE, Herrera and Gio Gonzalez are gone, Mazara is non-tendered and Rodon tendered for $7.5M. Edited January 22, 2020 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I know there will be those others things but the starting point is probably less than $100 maybe closer to $90 right ? You tell me. Is $150M payroll out of the question next year? $140M ? Assuming they offer arbitration to Mazara, Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada, Bummer, and Fry, they'll be right around $100m. $53 million currently guaranteed next year, that's a little over $40m in arbration assuming most guys are decent. Could save some of they lop off Rodon and Mazara, could be slightly higher if guys like Engel or Marshall are retained. Do have an option on Encarnacion that they might consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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