Castellanos to Reds , rumored 4/64M

[Moan4Yoan]

3 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Not every day, but how about two out of every three days?

As in, it’s likely at least two thirds of the games this year will be against a right handed starter.  Mazara hits righties pretty well, and at 24, he’s likely to continue to improve.  
 

Give him the 450 or so at-bats in those games, with the balance going to Leury, and the team will be more than set in the #8 spot in the lineup.  

What good team in competition for the postseason has a slap hitter like Leury in a RF platoon?  It‘s bad and needs to be improved.

[SonofaRoache]

I think our plan is to actually platoon Mazara with Engel. They may feel Engel hit lefties decently last year and his defense would make our outfield defense passable when he plays. 

[Lillian]

Leury should be just fine, as a platoon partner for Mazara. He hits lefties well enough to cover those games, as his performance over the last 3 years indicates:

AVG   OBP  SLG

.302   .341 .349

.333   .349  .444

.311   .344  .443

Given his speed and versatility, he is probably as good as some of the other names, which have been suggested, in the limited role of Mazara's platoon partner, especially when considering the cost. I'm much more interested in additional pitching depth, than I am concerned about acquiring a guy to take 100 + at bats from Mazara. In fact, I'd kind of like to know if Mazara can learn to hit lefties better. If Nomar realizes his potential vs. RH pitching, it would be helpful to know if he would still need a platoon partner, going forward, should the Sox have an interest in extending him. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Lillian

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Lillian said:

Leury should be just fine, as a platoon partner for Mazara. He hits lefties well enough to cover those games, as his performance over the last 3 years indicates:

AVG   OBP  SLG

.302   .341 .349

.333   .349  .444

.311   .344  .443

Given his speed and versatility, he is probably as good as some of the other names, which have been suggested, in the limited role of Mazara's platoon partner, especially when considering the cost. I'm much more interested in additional pitching depth, than I am concerned about acquiring a guy to take 100 + at bats from Mazara. In fact, I'd kind of like to know if Mazara can learn to hit lefties better. If Nomar realizes his potential vs. RH pitching, it would be helpful to know if he would still need a platoon partner, going forward, should the Sox have an interest in extending him. 

Exactly.  Leury with a little Engel sprinkled is a perfect weak side platoon mate for Mazara.  We're talking about one season here.

Plus, the FA market isn't exactly teaming with guys that rake lefties, can play an acceptable RF and can be had on a reasonable contract.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 hours ago, cjgalloway said:

Yeah, there's really no logical way you can defend that Abreu contract..

Sure there is just ask Reinsdorf.

 

22 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

This isn't Castellanos to Abreu comparison. It's $18mm tied up for no reason comparison. $18mm can net you a number of different assets and different times. 

$18mm can come in handy for a small market owner. 

Depends what year of Abreu's contract you are talking about, For 2020 his base salary is $11M , His payroll Salary is $12.666M (because of the signing bonus it's $1.666M higher than the base salary). His Luxury Tax salary is $16.666M.

Also you can't really say $18M would come in handy as if you wouldn't have to pay another decent 1st baseman. Also $4M of 2020 salary deferred ($1M each July 2023-2026) .

One more thing

Full No Trade for 2020

10-team no trade list for 2021

5-team no trade list for 2022

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/jose-abreu-13653/ for a look at how ABreu's contract is structured

 

[he gone.]

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sure there is just ask Reinsdorf.

 

Depends what year of Abreu's contract you are talking about, For 2020 his base salary is $11M , His payroll Salary is $12.666M (because of the signing bonus it's $1.666M higher than the base salary). His Luxury Tax salary is $16.666M.

Also you can't really say $18M would come in handy as if you wouldn't have to pay another decent 1st baseman. Also $4M of 2020 salary deferred ($1M each July 2023-2026) .

One more thing

Full No Trade for 2020

10-team no trade list for 2021

5-team no trade list for 2022

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/jose-abreu-13653/ for a look at how ABreu's contract is structured

 

not trying to get in a "im right, your wrong" convo here. These conversations on this site and others should be more give and take rather than backing your take to the death. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Your opinion is he's worth it. I believe that's a stretch and that's likely the consensus across the industry too. Sure theres a chance Abreu continues his play well for 3 years, but its more likely he doesn't. Hell look at EE or Nelson Cruz. There's your market comparison.  He already had no leverage saying that he never wanted to play on another team. We easily couldve gone year to year and taken out all risk from our end - that was the smart move business wise. Unfortunately the only time JR gets involved and overpays is when he doesn't think with his business mind. Almost all other moves are made with business in mind ... not fans.. not the team.. just his bottom line. This is the exception and its pretty evident. This contract is paying for his past performances and to keep him in a Sox jersey for his career -- and that's fine as long as JR uses his emotional mind over the next 3 years and doesn't use money as a crutch during this extended playoff stretch. Unfortunately I'd have to think much like all owners in baseball from the Yankees to Red Sox to Cubs this likely wont happen. I mean... Abreu is probably worth more like EE for the rest of his career .... so 3 years and 36mm. On most teams he'd already be the DH, but the Sox again are playing nice. 

It's my opinion that in 2022 when we need an extra bullpen piece or nice veteran bench piece and want that extra $10mm we'll hear a line that "were comfortable in the $180mm range" or something to that extent. And that $10mm will come back to haunt us. Just like Granadal's contract. We'll have robot umps and his framing will be worthless. He'll be blocked at DH and 1B -- he'll be old & producing like a $8-10mm catcher. Again - his contract was driven by being the first to sign, taking that risk, his current worth, etc. etc. But that will be money we regret in 2022 as well. Again - my own thoughts - I may be wrong, and probably will be to some extent. But I'm afraid we'll cry poor in the future and those are two contracts I'll go back to. 

[Chicago White Sox]

57 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

not trying to get in a "im right, your wrong" convo here. These conversations on this site and others should be more give and take rather than backing your take to the death. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Your opinion is he's worth it. I believe that's a stretch and that's likely the consensus across the industry too. Sure theres a chance Abreu continues his play well for 3 years, but its more likely he doesn't. Hell look at EE or Nelson Cruz. There's your market comparison.  He already had no leverage saying that he never wanted to play on another team. We easily couldve gone year to year and taken out all risk from our end - that was the smart move business wise. Unfortunately the only time JR gets involved and overpays is when he doesn't think with his business mind. Almost all other moves are made with business in mind ... not fans.. not the team.. just his bottom line. This is the exception and its pretty evident. This contract is paying for his past performances and to keep him in a Sox jersey for his career -- and that's fine as long as JR uses his emotional mind over the next 3 years and doesn't use money as a crutch during this extended playoff stretch. Unfortunately I'd have to think much like all owners in baseball from the Yankees to Red Sox to Cubs this likely wont happen. I mean... Abreu is probably worth more like EE for the rest of his career .... so 3 years and 36mm. On most teams he'd already be the DH, but the Sox again are playing nice. 

It's my opinion that in 2022 when we need an extra bullpen piece or nice veteran bench piece and want that extra $10mm we'll hear a line that "were comfortable in the $180mm range" or something to that extent. And that $10mm will come back to haunt us. Just like Granadal's contract. We'll have robot umps and his framing will be worthless. He'll be blocked at DH and 1B -- he'll be old & producing like a $8-10mm catcher. Again - his contract was driven by being the first to sign, taking that risk, his current worth, etc. etc. But that will be money we regret in 2022 as well. Again - my own thoughts - I may be wrong, and probably will be to some extent. But I'm afraid we'll cry poor in the future and those are two contracts I'll go back to. 

I must have missed the robot umps announcement, but when do they go live?

[he gone.]

They'll be using them in spring training this year ... but in the background ... which isn't to say much. 

 

"According to the Associated Press, MLB has discussed installing the system at the Class A Florida State League for 2020. If the technology works well at that level, the next step the following year could very well be implementing the technology at the Triple-A level, putting robot umps just one step away from the big leagues."

 

Basically my guess is starting in the 2022 season. I mean, I don't really think these test years are going to be a big deal. The technology has been in place now for years ... so it's not like there will be a lot of changes needed. So I don't see any reason by next year it's not in AAA. Seeing as the ump union has already approved this, the biggest step, then I think 2022 is a fair guess. Maybe it takes another year after that ... but based on some of the big calls missed in the playoffs I think it will be quick. 

[Thad Bosley]

2 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

not trying to get in a "im right, your wrong" convo here. These conversations on this site and others should be more give and take rather than backing your take to the death. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Your opinion is he's worth it. I believe that's a stretch and that's likely the consensus across the industry too. Sure theres a chance Abreu continues his play well for 3 years, but its more likely he doesn't. Hell look at EE or Nelson Cruz. There's your market comparison.  He already had no leverage saying that he never wanted to play on another team. We easily couldve gone year to year and taken out all risk from our end - that was the smart move business wise. Unfortunately the only time JR gets involved and overpays is when he doesn't think with his business mind. Almost all other moves are made with business in mind ... not fans.. not the team.. just his bottom line. This is the exception and its pretty evident. This contract is paying for his past performances and to keep him in a Sox jersey for his career -- and that's fine as long as JR uses his emotional mind over the next 3 years and doesn't use money as a crutch during this extended playoff stretch. Unfortunately I'd have to think much like all owners in baseball from the Yankees to Red Sox to Cubs this likely wont happen. I mean... Abreu is probably worth more like EE for the rest of his career .... so 3 years and 36mm. On most teams he'd already be the DH, but the Sox again are playing nice. 

It's my opinion that in 2022 when we need an extra bullpen piece or nice veteran bench piece and want that extra $10mm we'll hear a line that "were comfortable in the $180mm range" or something to that extent. And that $10mm will come back to haunt us. Just like Granadal's contract. We'll have robot umps and his framing will be worthless. He'll be blocked at DH and 1B -- he'll be old & producing like a $8-10mm catcher. Again - his contract was driven by being the first to sign, taking that risk, his current worth, etc. etc. But that will be money we regret in 2022 as well. Again - my own thoughts - I may be wrong, and probably will be to some extent. But I'm afraid we'll cry poor in the future and those are two contracts I'll go back to. 

I suspect if the payroll jumps $60M, or 50% more than where it is today, between now and two years from now, the team will have acquired both that "extra bullpen piece" AND "nice veteran bench piece" you're concerned about.  No worries there.

With the cost certainty in place over the next three years, Abreu's contract will not hinder any efforts to acquire whatever is needed over this time frame.  Period.  His contract is not overlapping any of the big paydays of the young core, and the payroll is still low enough that the team can go after the Betts' of the world if they so choose.  

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

not trying to get in a "im right, your wrong" convo here. These conversations on this site and others should be more give and take rather than backing your take to the death. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Your opinion is he's worth it. I believe that's a stretch and that's likely the consensus across the industry too. Sure theres a chance Abreu continues his play well for 3 years, but its more likely he doesn't. Hell look at EE or Nelson Cruz. There's your market comparison.  He already had no leverage saying that he never wanted to play on another team. We easily couldve gone year to year and taken out all risk from our end - that was the smart move business wise. Unfortunately the only time JR gets involved and overpays is when he doesn't think with his business mind. Almost all other moves are made with business in mind ... not fans.. not the team.. just his bottom line. This is the exception and its pretty evident. This contract is paying for his past performances and to keep him in a Sox jersey for his career -- and that's fine as long as JR uses his emotional mind over the next 3 years and doesn't use money as a crutch during this extended playoff stretch. Unfortunately I'd have to think much like all owners in baseball from the Yankees to Red Sox to Cubs this likely wont happen. I mean... Abreu is probably worth more like EE for the rest of his career .... so 3 years and 36mm. On most teams he'd already be the DH, but the Sox again are playing nice. 

It's my opinion that in 2022 when we need an extra bullpen piece or nice veteran bench piece and want that extra $10mm we'll hear a line that "were comfortable in the $180mm range" or something to that extent. And that $10mm will come back to haunt us. Just like Granadal's contract. We'll have robot umps and his framing will be worthless. He'll be blocked at DH and 1B -- he'll be old & producing like a $8-10mm catcher. Again - his contract was driven by being the first to sign, taking that risk, his current worth, etc. etc. But that will be money we regret in 2022 as well. Again - my own thoughts - I may be wrong, and probably will be to some extent. But I'm afraid we'll cry poor in the future and those are two contracts I'll go back to. 

No my opinion is that he is worth it in Reinsdorf's mind and you misrepresented how much he is costing. It changes year to year and you didn't take into account what another 1st baseman would cost .

If you think he  or another quality 1st baseman is worth $12M a year and Abreu averages around $16.666M it's really npt worth all the hot air his contract has been given. If Vaughn takes over at 1st base in a year or 2 then we have an extremely inexpensive 1st baseman and an expensive DH or part time DH but the overall cost will be less than the Sox are paying in 2020 for Abreu and EE.

I think Reinsdorf took all of that into account by the way he structured the Abreu contract.

And I like to back my position with as many facts as I can.

It's blanket statements without facts bleated by the sheep of popular opinion that bother me.

I keep arguing that for those clamoring for Castellanos that  it's a waste of space on a roster already decided upon except for another utility guy. But they are perfecting willing to spend $15M, or whatever a one year contract for Castellanos will cost, in a year that our pitching is suspect, we already have Mazara so you waste his chance for a breakout year, You add worse starting defense in RF and you add worse substitute defense with Mazara as a 4th OF and lose versatility on the bench. Plus you are going to piss off a few pitchers with ugly overall OF defense. Then too, you might have less to spend at the trade deadline for piece you really have a need for instead a redundant player like Castellanos. Castellanos is Abreu or EE masquerading as an OF.

Where's the fiscal responsibility there ? Or does that only apply to Abreu  ?

Edited January 25, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[BackDoorBreach]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No my opinion is that he is worth it in Reinsdorf's mind and you misrepresented how much he is costing. It changes year to year and you didn't take into account what another 1st baseman would cost .

If you think he  or another quality 1st baseman is worth $12M a year and Abreu averages around $16.666M it's really npt worth all the hot air his contract has been given. If Vaughn takes over at 1st base in a year or 2 then we have an extremely inexpensive 1st baseman and an expensive DH or part time DH but the overall cost will be less than the Sox are paying in 2020 for Abreu and EE.

I think Reinsdorf took all of that into account by the way he structured the Abreu contract.

And I like to back my position with as many facts as I can.

It's blanket statements without facts bleated by the sheep of popular opinion that bother me.

I keep arguing that for those clamoring for Castellanos that  it's a waste of space on a roster already decided upon except for another utility guy. But they are perfecting willing to spend $15M or whatever a one year contract for Castellanos will cost in a year that our pitching is suspect, we already have Mazara so you waste his chance for a breakout year, You add worse starting defense in RF and you add worse substitute defense with Mazara as a 4th OF and lose versatility on the bench. Plus you are going to piss off a few pitchers with ugly overall OF defense. Then too, you might have less to spend at the trade deadline for piece you really have a need for instead a redundant player like Castellanos. Castellanos is Abreu masquerading as an OF.

Where's the fiscal responsibility there ? Or does that only apply to Abreu  ?

This is actually what your argument boils down to asisde from inserting your subjective opinions as factors.

Abreu locks you in to a DH position in competing years as he ages in a spot that could be filled easily by players on this team right now.  EE is a better 1B than Jose Abreu.  He is not a true upgrade production wise over what we could get from EE next year or any number of DHs that are available on the market year to year.

Castellanos is a true upgrade over Mazara and is a true upgrade over anything we can reasonably get  in FA next year outside of Joc Pederson, who is still a platoon bat.  Castellanos has legitimate MLB production and his peripheral stats tell you he has been getting increasingly better every year over the last 3 years.  Mazara is the same player every year and there is literally nothing in any of his numbers that tell you he has made improvements when taking account for league averages, and he still is bad at defense.  You get slightly worse corner Defense from Nick while his bat is a +.  Mazara also has negative defensive value but his bat doesn't come close to making up for it.  If the Sox are trying to win they should be actually upgrading the black holes they have and RF is still pretty fucking bad.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

This is actually what your argument boils down to asisde from inserting your subjective opinions as factors.

Abreu locks you in to a DH position in competing years as he ages in a spot that could be filled easily by players on this team right now.  EE is a better 1B than Jose Abreu.  He is not a true upgrade production wise over what we could get from EE next year or any number of DHs that are available on the market year to year.

Castellanos is a true upgrade over Mazara and is a true upgrade over anything we can reasonably get  in FA next year outside of Joc Pederson, who is still a platoon bat.  Castellanos has legitimate MLB production and his peripheral stats tell you he has been getting increasingly better every year over the last 3 years.  Mazara is the same player every year and there is literally nothing in any of his numbers that tell you he has made improvements when taking account for league averages, and he still is bad at defense.  You get slightly worse corner Defense from Nick while his bat is a +.  Mazara also has negative defensive value but his bat doesn't come close to making up for it.  If the Sox are trying to win they should be actually upgrading the black holes they have and RF is still pretty fucking bad.

Don't tell me what my opinion boils down to . It's everything I wrote and if you think its subjective then my subjective guess is the Sox think the same way and no matter how much you hate the Mazara deal nothing is going to happen. The Sox arent getting Castellanos.

There's a huge disconnect here where you have a few threads asking who our last sub will be and here ,where there are those still whining about the Abreu contract and the Mazara trade and that's you mostly a faction with you at the forefront.

Argue with me at the end of the season or in 3 years if there's a way you can figure out the Sox lost the World Series or the division or a playoffs series  if any of your fears come to fruition about how they under spent on RF for a shot at upside or Abreu's contract.

You'll never be able to prove it because half the team and the future is riding upside. You can never single out how one contract that's a few million more or a few million less or a player or 2 players on a 26 man roster could cost the team when there are 24 other guys who had a much larger roll . Any of them or all of them playing better or worse than you expect leads to success or failure. That's much more subjective than anything I said.

You're also telling me Castellanos is better than he was 3 years ago when he was 24,exactly the same age as Mazara is now. Yet Mazara is and wlll be the same player as he's always been. That does not compute.

Edited January 25, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Thad Bosley]

22 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Abreu locks you in to a DH position in competing years as he ages in a spot that could be filled easily by players on this team right now.  EE is a better 1B than Jose Abreu.  He is not a true upgrade production wise over what we could get from EE next year or any number of DHs that are available on the market year to year.

Abreu will be younger at the end of his current contract than EE is today before the team has played one game in 2020.

Yet you are concerned about locking Jose into the DH spot in his years 33, 34, and 35, whereas no such similar concern with a 37 year old EE this year, or a 38 year old EE next year.  
 

Why the aging concern for one but not the other?  Seems like if anyone is going to fall off the cliff, it would be the 37 year old before the 33 year old.  
 

[BackDoorBreach]

4 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Abreu will be younger at the end of his current contract than EE is today before the team has played one game in 2020.

Yet you are concerned about locking Jose into the DH spot in his years 33, 34, and 35, whereas no such similar concern with a 37 year old EE this year, or a 38 year old EE next year.  
 

Why the aging concern for one but not the other?  Seems like if anyone is going to fall off the cliff, it would be the 37 year old before the 33 year old.  
 

Because you are projecting an awful defensive 1B to continue having a good bat for 3 years instead of going year to year, which is EXACTLY why the EE deal is good.  They aren't locked in after 2020.  He was also a more productive player than Abreu last year despite being injured.  Age is always a concern, which is why the Abreu deal is bad and completely unecessary.

[BackDoorBreach]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Don't tell me what my opinion boils down to . It's everything I wrote and if you think its subjective then my subjective guess is the Sox think the same way and no matter how much you hate the Mazara deal nothing is going to happen. The Sox arent getting Castellanos.

There's a huge disconnect here where you have a few threads asking who our last sub will be and here ,where there are those still whining about the Abreu contract and the Mazara trade and that's you mostly a faction with you at the forefront.

Argue with me at the end of the season or in 3 years if there's a way you can figure out the Sox lost the World Series or the division or a playoffs series  if any of your fears come to fruition about how they under spent on RF for a shot at upside or Abreu's contract.

You'll never be able to prove it because half the team and the future is riding upside. You can never single out how one contract that's a few million more or a few million less or a player or 2 players on a 26 man roster could cost the team when there are 24 other guys who had a much larger roll . Any of them or all of them playing better or worse than you expect leads to success or failure. That's much more subjective than anything I said.

You're also telling me Castellanos is better than he was 3 years ago when he was 24,exactly the same age as Mazara is now. Yet Mazara is and wlll be the same player as he's always been. That does not compute.

This is such a shitty argument that I keep seeing.  How many players in baseball have we seen that never reached their potential?  Castellanos has PROVEN production and PROVEN improvements. He has made actual improvements for 3 straight years while Mazara has made basically zero.  Being 24 years old is not an attribute, skill, or tool.  I guess we should throw Carson Fulmer in the rotation or trade for Lewis Brinson because they can still get better? It's the same shitty argument.

Mazara is not a win now move, I'm sorry but no matter how you try to use gymnastics here that trade is nothing short of a gamble.  A gamble that he might be a platoon bat with still shitty defense, not really much of a ceiling there. This is a move the Sox should have made last year, not when their window opens.

I also know the Sox aren't signing Castellanos, that doesn't mean I still won't think this trade makes no sense.

[Thad Bosley]

36 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Because you are projecting an awful defensive 1B to continue having a good bat for 3 years instead of going year to year, which is EXACTLY why the EE deal is good.  They aren't locked in after 2020.  He was also a more productive player than Abreu last year despite being injured.  Age is always a concern, which is why the Abreu deal is bad and completely unecessary.

Well, no, I’m not projecting anyone’s bat based on their defensive prowess.

What I’m saying is I’m perfectly fine with the Sox going one more year with Jose at first base before he gives way to Vaughn, and then Jose filling the DH role in the final two years of the contract.  As the reigning RBI champion of the American League who also hit 33 homers while posting an .834 OPS last year, he’s given no indication that he’s not able to deliver that level of production through his age 35 season.  
 

If he was EE’s age and they offered him a three year contract, then yes, that would be concerning.  But he’s not.  He’s “only” 33, and with the type of protection he’s finally going to get in the Sox’ lineup over the next few years, his production at the plate will more than likely be one of the least of the team’s concerns.   

 

 

[BackDoorBreach]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Well, no, I’m not projecting anyone’s bat based on their defensive prowess.

What I’m saying is I’m perfectly fine with the Sox going one more year with Jose at first base before he gives way to Vaughn, and then Jose filling the DH role in the final two years of the contract.  As the reigning RBI champion of the American League who also hit 33 homers while posting an .834 OPS last year, he’s given no indication that he’s not able to deliver that level of production through his age 35 season.  
 

If he was EE’s age and they offered him a three year contract, then yes, that would be concerning.  But he’s not.  He’s “only” 33, and with the type of protection he’s finally going to get in the Sox’ lineup over the next few years, his production at the plate will more than likely be one of the least of the team’s concerns.   

 

 

???

The White Sox are now locked in to a guy that had a 117 wRC as the DH for 2021 and 2022.  There are a number of players that are available that put up better numbers than Abreu for less or around the same amount of money.  One of those players is in the title of the thread you are commenting in, and provides more flexibility to the roster.  He is a good hitter, but he is not JDM or even the hated Castellanos at the plate.  The signing was bad and nothing close to a necessity.  "Protection" is also not a thing but I digress on that.

Edited January 25, 2020 by BackDoorBreach

[tray]

I get your point about the Abreu deal, but players are human beings and have human traits like loyalty, leadership, work ethic, and optimism that you just cannot overlook with a guy like Jose. He deserves to wear the C for El Capitain on his jersey.

Here is how Eloy feels about Luis Robert having mentors and leadership on the team:

"Last year, I was a little bit anxious," Jimenez said, "and I know he’s (Luis Robert)  going to be, too.

"The first year of your contract, you play on Opening Day, it’s going to be a little bit tough for him, too. It’s not going to be (tough) just for him, it’s for anybody who makes the Opening Day roster. It’s a little bit tough because it’s different pitching, it’s different stuff and the pitchers are a lot better at this level.

"He’s going to need someone. But he’s got (Jose) Abreu, he’s got (Yoan) Moncada and he’s got me. So he’s going to be good."

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/eloy-jimenez-has-high-praise-luis-robert-hes-going-be-next-mike-trout

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

To be clear, I was good with offering and him accepting the QO. The extension is the part I didn't like.

[ChiSox59]

A few things. 
 

The Abreu extension was and remains bad. It’s not like the Sox can’t work around it, but it was completely unnecessary. That said, clearly Jose provides intangibles to the club that the org loves, and they wanted to keep him around and take care of their guy. So long as he doesn’t fall off a cliff and so long as his $50M over the next 3 years doesn’t stop the Sox from adding other impact players as needed, it’s whatever. That remains to be seen, but in year 1 it doesn’t appear it made much of a difference. 
 

Nomar Mazara has been just a guy. But he’s incredibly talented, and has battled hand injuries the past 2 seasons. I didn’t love the move at the time, but based on how the lineup looks, I have no issues whatsoever rolling the dice on him for the 2020 season. He’s going to be an above average bat against RHP, and he’s going to be a slightly below average RF. There is a chance things click for him and we have a monster everyone thought he would be 4 years ago. 
 

No matter how much Backdoor tries to will Nick Castellanos into existence, it’s just not going to happen. The Sox clearly have their eye on better fits for the long term roster in RF next offseason and they also want to give Mazara a shot in the meantime. It’s time to let it go, bud. Castellanos isn’t even that good and his OF defense is comically bad. We don’t need 2/3 of our OF for the next several seasons to be DHs. Don’t understand why you’ve been so unwieldy to accept that that isn’t a positive for this org. 

[Moan4Yoan]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

A few things. 
 

The Abreu extension was and remains bad. It’s not like the Sox can’t work around it, but it was completely unnecessary. That said, clearly Jose provides intangibles to the club that the org loves, and they wanted to keep him around and take care of their guy. So long as he doesn’t fall off a cliff and so long as his $50M over the next 3 years doesn’t stop the Sox from adding other impact players as needed, it’s whatever. That remains to be seen, but in year 1 it doesn’t appear it made much of a difference. 
 

Nomar Mazara has been just a guy. But he’s incredibly talented, and has battled hand injuries the past 2 seasons. I didn’t love the move at the time, but based on how the lineup looks, I have no issues whatsoever rolling the dice on him for the 2020 season. He’s going to be an above average bat against RHP, and he’s going to be a slightly below average RF. There is a chance things click for him and we have a monster everyone thought he would be 4 years ago. 
 

No matter how much Backdoor tries to will Nick Castellanos into existence, it’s just not going to happen. The Sox clearly have their eye on better fits for the long term roster in RF next offseason and they also want to give Mazara a shot in the meantime. It’s time to let it go, bud. Castellanos isn’t even that good and his OF defense is comically bad. We don’t need 2/3 of our OF for the next several seasons to be DHs. Don’t understand why you’ve been so unwieldy to accept that that isn’t a positive for this org. 

Because there is another angle...

That Castellanos may have improved defensively in RF with more playing time there.  GRate RF is easier to play than Comerica and Wrigley RF.

That he will be cheaper than initially thought with the OF market apparently crumbling.

And last but not least, his bat is superior to Mazara’s.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

A few things. 
 

The Abreu extension was and remains bad. It’s not like the Sox can’t work around it, but it was completely unnecessary. That said, clearly Jose provides intangibles to the club that the org loves, and they wanted to keep him around and take care of their guy. So long as he doesn’t fall off a cliff and so long as his $50M over the next 3 years doesn’t stop the Sox from adding other impact players as needed, it’s whatever. That remains to be seen, but in year 1 it doesn’t appear it made much of a difference. 
 

Nomar Mazara has been just a guy. But he’s incredibly talented, and has battled hand injuries the past 2 seasons. I didn’t love the move at the time, but based on how the lineup looks, I have no issues whatsoever rolling the dice on him for the 2020 season. He’s going to be an above average bat against RHP, and he’s going to be a slightly below average RF. There is a chance things click for him and we have a monster everyone thought he would be 4 years ago. 
 

No matter how much Backdoor tries to will Nick Castellanos into existence, it’s just not going to happen. The Sox clearly have their eye on better fits for the long term roster in RF next offseason and they also want to give Mazara a shot in the meantime. It’s time to let it go, bud. Castellanos isn’t even that good and his OF defense is comically bad. We don’t need 2/3 of our OF for the next several seasons to be DHs. Don’t understand why you’ve been so unwieldy to accept that that isn’t a positive for this org. 

yOU'RE MY FAVORITE POSTER!

[tray]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

 

The Abreu extension was and remains bad. It’s not like the Sox can’t work around it, but it was completely unnecessary.

You sound like the Sox gave  Jose an Albert Pujols contract.

What if Moncada decides to sign an extension in part because his his pals are going to be on the team with him for a few years ?

The Sox want to keep Eloy, Moncada, Robert and Abreu happy for a few years.  No worries. This will work out just fine.

Edited January 25, 2020 by tray

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, tray said:

You sound like the Sox gave  Jose an Albert Pujols contract.

What if Moncada decides to sign an extension in part because his his pals are going to be on the team with him for a few years ?

The Sox want to keep Eloy, Moncada, Robert and Abreu happy for a few years.  No worries. This will work out just fine.

People forget Abreu gets these guys acclimated to the city and team and is like a big brothe. Abreu also recruits for us and they love him. Had we not given Abreu this deal, our players would have been upset and probably would have lost respect for the organization. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, tray said:

You sound like the Sox gave  Jose an Albert Pujols contract.

What if Moncada decides to sign an extension in part because his his pals are going to be on the team with him for a few years ?

The Sox want to keep Eloy, Moncada, Robert and Abreu happy for a few years.  No worries. This will work out just fine.

I literally just said it’s whatever. The Sox wanted to take care of their guy. But they paid him between $15-20M more than anyone else would have, maybe more. It was unnecessary.