So What Happens to Zack Collins?

[Moan4Yoan]

Trading Collins would not fit in with what Hahn has talked about regarding keeping the young talent around for years for long-term success.  Unless the Sox have completely soured on Collins’ ability to catch and/or hit, I don’t see them trading him away just because they have McCann around for one more year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Again, if Grandal is hurt, the Sox are screwed anyways. The best back up catcher in the league with one of the top catchers in the league as the regular, is a lot like owning the largest and best house you could get in the worst neighborhood.  For a team with limited resources, you re-allocate those funds so they can be better used. What if Eloy gets hurt again? Do the Sox need to sign Puig? What if Anderson gets hurt? Do they need to find a top of the line SS to sit on the bench until it happens? Worrying about Grandal being hurt is shortsided. McCann is a short term employee not matter what. He probably would appreciate RH finding him a place where he will play a bit more. 

1st sentence not true unless you don't believe in the rest of the team or the depth .One player is not the difference between winning and being screwed. It would hurt but if the Sox do or don't make the playoffs it's a team thing not a Grandal being hurt thing. Depth allows you to overcome injuries. The Sox as currently constructed are a much improved team.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, KopechThrowsHeat said:

You can sign someone who is just as good as anyone you would get for McCann or Collins. I wouldn't sell a top prospect catcher who has shown promise or an all star catcher for a rp. Bullpen arms are way too unpredictable.

We have a bingo.

Keep them all. Sign FA relievers. McCann and EE could be gone next year or this team could be in it and need to add at the deadline.

I like the depth and I think McCann is a great backup who has proven can handle being a starting catcher if needed. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, tray said:

I hope the Sox trade Collins for a minor league relief pitcher and end the absurd debate about whether he is the future catcher for the White Sox.

That ship sailed even before the Sox signed Grandal.   Let Collins get yet another chance to prove himself....on another team.

It isn't a debate about Collins being the future catcher . It's about if he can provide a strong bat (OBP , power) and become more valuable.I love @Chicago White Soxas a poster and I know he likes Collins to a certain extent but sometimes he can be a bit unfair such as saying he knows Collins can put up good numbers with a juiced ball hitting in a bandbox. Collins did not create that situation but he did better than everyone else in Charlotte and the ball and park also has nothing to do with the amount of walks he takes.

He can become the catcher of the future . Many catchers have their weak and strong points. Grandal is considered one of the best framers but has a lot of passed balls. McCanncalls a good game and throws out base stealers at a decent clip but isn't a good framer . McCann and Grandal complement each other for this year.

Keep McCann for the year ,keep Collins and roll with it.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It isn't a debate about Collins being the future catcher . It's about if he can provide a strong bat (OBP , power) and become more valuable.I love @Chicago White Soxas a poster and I know he likes Collins to a certain extent but sometimes he can be a bit unfair such as saying he knows Collins can put up good numbers with a juiced ball hitting in a bandbox. Collins did not create that situation but he did better than everyone else in Charlotte and the ball and park also has nothing to do with the amount of walks he takes.

He can become the catcher of the future . Many catchers have their weak and strong points. Grandal is considered one of the best framers but has a lot of passed balls. McCanncalls a good game and throws out base stealers at a decent clip but isn't a good framer . McCann and Grandal complement each other for this year.

Keep McCann for the year ,keep Collins and roll with it.

So start Collins in AAA then?  I don’t see both him & McCann on the 25 man roster as being a viable option.  I also worry Grandal will be sitting on the bench way too much with McCann as his backup, but that’s more of a manager issue than anything.

[Jerksticks]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It isn't a debate about Collins being the future catcher . It's about if he can provide a strong bat (OBP , power) and become more valuable.I love @Chicago White Soxas a poster and I know he likes Collins to a certain extent but sometimes he can be a bit unfair such as saying he knows Collins can put up good numbers with a juiced ball hitting in a bandbox. Collins did not create that situation but he did better than everyone else in Charlotte and the ball and park also has nothing to do with the amount of walks he takes.

He can become the catcher of the future . Many catchers have their weak and strong points. Grandal is considered one of the best framers but has a lot of passed balls. McCanncalls a good game and throws out base stealers at a decent clip but isn't a good framer . McCann and Grandal complement each other for this year.

Keep McCann for the year ,keep Collins and roll with it.

I think so too.  While we are going to be very competitive this year and may win the division, we all have to remember that this is still a rebuilding year and growth year for the young guys.  The FO knows this and has somehow managed to make us super competitive this year without hurting development time or losing long-term assets.  It’s pretty remarkable what they’ve done.  
 

Team is pretty ready to roll IMO. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Jerksticks

[Dick Allen]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

1st sentence not true unless you don't believe in the rest of the team or the depth .One player is not the difference between winning and being screwed. It would hurt but if the Sox do or don't make the playoffs it's a team thing not a Grandal being hurt thing. Depth allows you to overcome injuries. The Sox as currently constructed are a much improved team.

One player can certainly make the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. 

Do you really think the 2019 version of James McCann is going to be the one seen in 2020? If not, just remember many praising him were so pissed off the White Sox signed him for $2.5 million last year. His BABIP was .356. Hard to imagine, given his history, that will remain that high. I think last year is peak McCann. I think they should sell. I would see if Cincinnati was interested. They may be willing to part with Inglesias, as he blew a lot of games last year. He and McCann make virtually the same in 2020 but then he is owed some dough. I do know he fell out of favor last year, whether that is something White Sox scouts think is a permanent downward trend, I have no idea. He still strikes out a lot of guys.  But it's a thought, and it wouldn't be the first time they traded a catcher for a reliever.  Plus, he's Cuban. The Sox could try to collect all the Cubans. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So start Collins in AAA then?  I don’t see both him & McCann on the 25 man roster as being a viable option.  I also worry Grandal will be sitting on the bench way too much with McCann as his backup, but that’s more of a manager issue than anything.

I don't see a problem with Collins in AAA or starting the season with the Sox . Like others have said unless in limited playing time he mashes he's likely going down when Robert and Madrigal gets called up. He might even go back down even if he is mashing.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

One player can certainly make the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. 

Do you really think the 2019 version of James McCann is going to be the one seen in 2020? If not, just remember many praising him were so pissed off the White Sox signed him for $2.5 million last year. His BABIP was .356. Hard to imagine, given his history, that will remain that high. I think last year is peak McCann. I think they should sell. I would see if Cincinnati was interested. They may be willing to part with Inglesias, as he blew a lot of games last year. He and McCann make virtually the same in 2020 but then he is owed some dough. I do know he fell out of favor last year, whether that is something White Sox scouts think is a permanent downward trend, I have no idea. He still strikes out a lot of guys.  But it's a thought, and it wouldn't be the first time they traded a catcher for a reliever.  Plus, he's Cuban. The Sox could try to collect all the Cubans. 

Sure they can. Losing Giolito early in the season would hurt a lot because there is no one close to the quality of pitcher he is to take his place.You can also say that the combined games that Robert, Kopech and Madrigal miss being down in the minors could make the difference between making the playoffs or not. Multiple injuries to several key players can be that difference too . You can dream up a lot of scenarios that create that difference but competent backups ease the the painand I will stand by my original response to you saying that the Sox are screwed if Grandal gets hurt,They are not that dependent on one position player.

Edited December 26, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dick Allen]

27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sure they can. Losing Giolito early in the season would hurt a lot because there is no one close to the quality of pitcher he is to take his place.You can also say that the combined games that Robert, Kopech and Madrigal miss being down in the minors could make the difference between making the playoffs or not. Multiple injuries to several key players can be that difference too . You can dream up a lot of scenarios that create that difference but competent backups ease the the painand I will stand by my original response to you saying that the Sox are screwed if Grandal gets hurt,They are not that dependent on one position player.

The gap between Grandal and McCann is a lot bigger than the gap between McCann and Collins in my opinion.   So if the Sox could weather losing Grandal with McCann around, they most likely could weather it if Collins or a dime a dozen catcher was acquired. if you believe in Steamer, Collins might be the better choice anyways. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Dick Allen

[VAfan]

Keep Collins, as he has longer term value than McCann.  Keep McCann for this year, because Collins could use more experience catching before being thrust into the full-time backup catching role. Both have more value to the Sox than they are likely to bring back in trade, so there is no reason not to keep both. The Sox can sign FA bullpen arm(s), and don't need trade chips to acquire someone. 

If Grandall or McCann or EE or even Abreu get hurt, Collins will get some playing time in the majors. But until then, he should be getting starting time in AAA. He doesn't have to prove he can hit in AAA, but he can still improve his catching. 

Sox want to contend in 2020, but they also want to keep the cupboard stocked. Over on South Side Sox, they are running a prospect poll. Collins comes in as the 6th best prospect. But 3 of those ahead of him are going to be in the majors - Robert, Madrigal, and Kopech. That leaves only Vaughn and Dunning ahead of him. Nothing wrong in having quality depth getting experience at AAA. 

[poppysox]

5 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Count me in the group that would rather trade McCann than Collins. I like McCann a lot, but it’s pretty obvious that his first half of 2019 was an anomaly. If Hahn can sell high on him, he should do it. 

Count me in the group who wants to keep all three catchers.  Depth at the most physically taxing position on the field is a great thing to have.  Two solid major league catchers mentoring Collins will help his development as well.

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Count me in the group who wants to keep all three catchers.  Depth at the most physically taxing position on the field is a great thing to have.  Two solid major league catchers mentoring Collins will help his development as well.

How are they mentoring him if he’s in AAA?

[Chisoxfn]

Let’s see if Collins adjustments stick. If he has a great spring give him more at bats and see how he plays. If everything is doing well than that is a good problem to have an Edwin is only signed for one year. If he struggles, he gets more time in minors to make a case and Edwin bought Sox protection. 
 

injuries are going to happen and it will be good to have quality depth, including some pieces who could come up and have upside. See LA Dodgers who have regularly had great depth and via injury seen new players emerge. 

[Polar Bear]

Package Collins with Mazara after we sign Puig.  

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Count me in the group who wants to keep all three catchers.  Depth at the most physically taxing position on the field is a great thing to have.  Two solid major league catchers mentoring Collins will help his development as well.

They're not carrying 3 on the MLB roster. Not without an injury to Abreu or Edwin.

[coco1997]

1 minute ago, Moncada said:

Package Collins with Mazara after we sign Puig.  

How about packing Collins with Mazara and a high upside arm like Dunning or Stiever for Marte? Would that be enough for Pittsburgh?

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

They're not carrying 3 on the MLB roster. Not without an injury to Abreu or Edwin.

A guy like Leury who can play all over can allow you to carry an extra catcher / DH potentially. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

A guy like Leury who can play all over can allow you to carry an extra catcher / DH potentially. 

They're not going to have 5 guys on the roster who only play 1 position (1B/C). Collins should be playing every day.

Ideally, they'll have McCann (C ), Leury (IF/OF), a defensive first OF and a platoon OF bat for Mazara or another infielder.

Edited December 26, 2019 by soxfan2014

[fathom]

23 minutes ago, coco1997 said:

How about packing Collins with Mazara and a high upside arm like Dunning or Stiever for Marte? Would that be enough for Pittsburgh?

Been thinking the same as you in terms of Mazara and Collins being packaged. Maybe the Marlins would be interested.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

Been thinking the same as you in terms of Mazara and Collins being packaged. Maybe the Marlins would be interested.

Steele Walker woulda been more interesting for both the Marlins and Pirates. 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Steele Walker woulda been more interesting for both the Marlins and Pirates. 

Marlins already tried to trade for Mazara though

[Lillian]

14 minutes ago, fathom said:

Been thinking the same as you in terms of Mazara and Collins being packaged. Maybe the Marlins would be interested.

Now, you want to trade a LH hitter and a LH hitting prospect, for a RH hitting outfielder. I would be shocked if Hahn would be interested in pursuing that kind of trade. 

[Moan4Yoan]

5 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Now, you want to trade a LH hitter and a LH hitting prospect, for a RH hitting outfielder. I would be shocked if Hahn would be interested in pursuing that kind of trade. 

Starling Marte is a Pirate.  Fathom suggested trading Collins and Mazara to the Marlins because they were interested in Mazara before the Sox acquired him.  I don’t believe Fathom ever mentioned a potential return from the Marlins.

Also, Marte is a much better player than Mazara.  What does handedness matter at that point?

Edited December 26, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Lillian]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Starling Marte is a Pirate.  Fathom suggested trading Collins and Mazara to the Marlins because they were interested in Mazara before the Sox acquired him.  I don’t believe Fathom ever mentioned a potential return from the Marlins.

Also, Marte is a much better player than Mazara.  What does handedness matter at that point?

Well, Marte does hit RH pitching better than LH pitching, so you are right, it's not really an issue. I guess I'm just satisfied enough with the roster, the way that it's now constructed. Bring in one more relief pitcher and let's get the season started. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Lillian