Sox still looking at Puig?

[shipps]

What is so terrible about Puigs stats that have people ripping on him here? He also has a cannon in the outfield, correct?

If you don't like the guy because of his personality then I get it but to say "he sucks" is disingenuous.   

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, shipps said:

What is so terrible about Puigs stats that have people ripping on him here? He also has a cannon in the outfield, correct?

If you don't like the guy because of his personality then I get it but to say "he sucks" is disingenuous.   

He's just very average. And very average isn't worth that headache. 

[HOFHurt35]

1 hour ago, Orlando said:

Hector has been spot on guys. His only blemish is trusting Frank Castillo about a Ozuna  and even those tweets always said “according to Frank Castillo”. If he’s saying the Sox are most interested, I’d believe him.

I agree.  People are pissed off at Hector for the Machado garbage.   Not his fault the Padres went all in on the final minutes to steal him.   I trust Hector more than any of our local Sox Twitter Trolls, including White Sox Dave. 

[Chisoxfn]

52 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I just don't see the motive. I will say IF they really wanted Puig as a back up, and stuck with McCann to catch 40 games, they better not be skimping out on pitching. There would be no excuse.

This. They need to address the bullpen. Right now it looks like a giant black hole and the trouble is the relief market just doesn't have much anything out there right now. Sox should see who they could pick up from teams who aren't looking to contend and might want to drop some cash.  

[Chisoxfn]

20 minutes ago, shipps said:

What is so terrible about Puigs stats that have people ripping on him here? He also has a cannon in the outfield, correct?

If you don't like the guy because of his personality then I get it but to say "he sucks" is disingenuous.   

Nothing. He also has tools that if he ever put in the work, you might actually see him hit is potential (which is well above average).  The thing is, the negatives with the Dodgers in terms of his clubhouse fit and work ethic are just so freaking bad.  It did seem like he might have benefited from a change of scenery with the reds (even though the stats didn't back that up).  It seemed like he fit in the clubhouse better, so maybe that helped.  I just see too much downside of his potential impact on our young and developing players, albeit, I would absolutely love having him the player (with his upside and ability to be a two way player, which we could use, given Mazara and Jimenez are both lousy defensive outfielders. 

[Tnetennba]

27 minutes ago, shipps said:

What is so terrible about Puigs stats that have people ripping on him here? He also has a cannon in the outfield, correct?

If you don't like the guy because of his personality then I get it but to say "he sucks" is disingenuous.   

Remove his first two years in the Bigs where he looked like an Allstar phenom and he looks pretty average.  Now divorce yourself from his name, and Cuban, and HYPE, and you have a pretty average to mediocre baseball player for the last 5 years.  Now add back in all of the stories about clubhouse issues, etc, and you have a Name greater than the player, who no one is really knocking down his door to sign.  That also is a poor platoon split in RF with what is already on the roster.  PASS.

[scotty22hotty]

Hopefully he signs 2yr+ with Miami so we can all forget this. But if he signs for around 1/$8m its going to be hard to explain why they went with a $6m Mazara. seeing as how both are projected to be our 9th best hitter... its hard to get upset about the lack of interest.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, scotty22hotty said:

Hopefully he signs 2yr+ with Miami so we can all forget this. But if he signs for around 1/$8m its going to be hard to explain why they went with a $6m Mazara. seeing as how both are projected to be our 9th best hitter... its hard to get upset about the lack of interest.

It's not hard at all when you look at the record of incidents with Puig and teammates and coaches.   Few guys actually deserve the "clubhouse cancer" rep, many of them are just prickly guys that love to win -- Puig from almost all accounts is not that.  He's a genuine nutcase that thinks he knows more than the coaching staff and straight up alienates his team mates.

As I said  yesterday if he does want to come here 1 year 8 million that's fine.  It's the only scenario is makes sense because one incident and his ass is DFA the money is so light.  Anything more than that, easy, easy pass.

[Jose Abreu]

21 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This. They need to address the bullpen. Right now it looks like a giant black hole and the trouble is the relief market just doesn't have much anything out there right now. Sox should see who they could pick up from teams who aren't looking to contend and might want to drop some cash.  

I don't get where this bullpen fear is coming from. It was about league average last year and we didn't lose anyone. Sure, I'd like them to sign another arm or two, but I wouldn't call it a black hole. 

[BackDoorBreach]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

I won't believe it until Jerry confirms it. 

I am without a doubt certain that Mazara has been projected much better than he has been, probably every year in the majors.

Puig isn't great but he is definitely a better player than Nomar and has been for the last 4 years.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

38 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I don't get where this bullpen fear is coming from. It was about league average last year and we didn't lose anyone. Sure, I'd like them to sign another arm or two, but I wouldn't call it a black hole. 

It’s definitely not a black hole. At least for me, my biggest concern is Colome pitching closer to his second half stats. I’m not super trustworthy of Herrera, Fry, or Marshall. Bummer is the only guy I trust 100% right now and would like to see another solid option added to the mix.

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

It’s definitely not a black hole. At least for me, my biggest concern is Colome pitching closer to his second half stats. I’m not super trustworthy of Herrera, Fry, or Marshall. Bummer is the only guy I trust 100% right now and would like to see another solid option added to the mix.

I reckon Herrera will bounce back. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I don't get where this bullpen fear is coming from. It was about league average last year and we didn't lose anyone. Sure, I'd like them to sign another arm or two, but I wouldn't call it a black hole. 

I think regression is likely for Colome, Marshall and perhaps Cordero. The bigger factor however is those guys were pitching often times in non-competitive games or on the losing side. It’s a lot different now that we’re trying to protect a lead. I don’t know who I could count on in the 7th or 8th to protect a one run lead besides Bummer.

[steveno89]

12 minutes ago, shipps said:

What is so terrible about Puigs stats that have people ripping on him here? He also has a cannon in the outfield, correct?

If you don't like the guy because of his personality then I get it but to say "he sucks" is disingenuous.   

Puig was actually really solid from May onward in 2019, the issue is well documented as a bad clubhouse fit and teammate 

 

1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I think regression is likely for Colome, Marshall and perhaps Cordero. The bigger factor however is those guys were pitching often times in non-competitive games or on the losing side. It’s a lot different now that we’re trying to protect a lead. I don’t know who I could count on in the 7th or 8th to protect a one run lead besides Bummer.

Bullpen is more of a question mark than fans have made it seem, agreed. 

[smellysox]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Puig's people could easily tell Hector that they are talking to the White Sox to get another team to hopefully up their offer. I don't know why Bob, Bruce and Steve would all say no way if it were true. The Sox don't have a need for Puig at all.

This is what I believe is happening 

 

[caulfield12]

Those who don’t know him, who haven’t spent time with him, don’t know and think differently,” Reyes said. “But coming here and having him as a teammate and seeing the kind of guy he is, he changed my mind completely.

“He’s someone who enjoys his game. The way he plays, that’s who he is. He shows the public and his teammates and his opponents who he is. He isn’t trying to be something different.”

First baseman Carlos Santana, the leader of the Indians’ clubhouse, also speaks of newfound appreciation for Puig, admitting that he was initially concerned about the arrival of the enigmatic slugger. Santana says that manager Terry Francona asked him to have a chat with Puig right off the bat.

“I’m really surprised. He’s a cool guy,” Santana said in Spanish. “I think he adjusted quickly to the team, with so many Latino players here. He feels comfortable. When he got here, I spoke with him. I told him that here we come to play baseball and play it hard. I think he got my message, and he’s been playing hard.”

It certainly helps that Puig has performed well of late, hitting .288 with two home runs, 11 RBIs, eight walks, 10 runs and an .810 OPS in 21 games with Cleveland.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/yasiel-puig-winning-over-indians-teammates

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

It’s definitely not a black hole. At least for me, my biggest concern is Colome pitching closer to his second half stats. I’m not super trustworthy of Herrera, Fry, or Marshall. Bummer is the only guy I trust 100% right now and would like to see another solid option added to the mix.

Or 2 . The Sox got a lot of quality innings from Marshall and Cordero and an excellent year from Colome  . Colome is in his walk year in 2020 but even so it's hard to see him as good as he was last year. Expecting the same kind of years from Marshall and Cordero is why we can say it's close to a black hole especially when you toss in the miserable year Herrera had, A few quality reinforcement will help.

The second half of the season should see a lot of changes with guys coming back from injury or seeing what you get from some of the more interesting arms in the minors to augment the rotation or the BP.

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or 2 . The Sox got a lot of quality innings from Marshall and Cordero and an excellent year from Colome  . Colome is in his walk year in 2020 but even so it's hard to see him as good as he was last year. Expecting the same kind of years from Marshall and Cordero is why we can say it's close to a black hole especially when you toss in the miserable year Herrera had, A few quality reinforcement will help.

The second half of the season should see a lot of changes with guys coming back from injury or seeing what you get from some of the more interesting arms in the minors to augment the rotation or the BP.

 

Stiever, Dunning, Rodon and Lopez/Cease provide a lot of insurance there.

Would still like to see at least one veteran signing, though.

[A-Train to 35th]

Puig is a clubhouse cancer and is not wanted on this team.  The Sox team last year was a close knit group made up of team players and not single players looking for attention (ala Puig, Sammy Sosa).   I love how the bullpen greets the starting pitcher in the outfield for his walk to the bullpen.  The new additions Keuchel and Gio will mentor the young pitchers and are quality team players same goes for EE.  Mazara will hopefully follow their lead and not become a distraction.  Leury Garcia is our platoon RF and Engle will back-up Robert in CF until Rutherford, Basbe, or Adolfo arrive.  All we need at this point is some bullpen help and for Herrara to have a bounce back and 85-90 wins is not out of reach.

[thxfrthmmrs]

12 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or 2 . The Sox got a lot of quality innings from Marshall and Cordero and an excellent year from Colome  . Colome is in his walk year in 2020 but even so it's hard to see him as good as he was last year. Expecting the same kind of years from Marshall and Cordero is why we can say it's close to a black hole especially when you toss in the miserable year Herrera had, A few quality reinforcement will help.

The second half of the season should see a lot of changes with guys coming back from injury or seeing what you get from some of the more interesting arms in the minors to augment the rotation or the BP.

 

MLBTR painted a much more bleak picture here:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/white-sox-rumors-bullpen-relievers.html

“Collectively, White Sox relievers ranked 14th in the Majors in ERA (4.33), but that’s largely a function of the quality results posted by Colome, Bummer, Marshall and Cordero. And there’s also reason to take that number with a grain of salt; the Chicago bullpen’s matching 4.69 FIP and xFIP ranked 18th and 21st among MLB teams while posting the fifth-highest walk rate (10.8 percent) and fifth-worst strikeout rate (21.7 percent) in all of baseball. White Sox relievers were tied with Royals relievers for the worst K-BB% in the Majors.”

The bullpen definitely had some luck on their side and even overachieved last season. Even if you factor in positive regression from Herrera and Fry to bounce back, it is still not a very good bullpen.

As far as reinforcements go,I don’t want to count on anyone from upper minors or NRIs to break out. If someone does great, I’m sure we will find a spot for them, but damn it lets go out and sign two of the top arms left and build a playoff caliber bullpen (provided they aren’t more than 2 year deals). A good bullpen shortens ballgames and helps this young staff tremendously.

[zisk]

Would Hunter Pence be a better fit than Puig? Pence will be 37 next year, but still hits lefties pretty well. At his age he's well

aware that he's not an every day player any more. Don't know about his defense in RF though.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

MLBTR painted a much more bleak picture here:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/white-sox-rumors-bullpen-relievers.html

“Collectively, White Sox relievers ranked 14th in the Majors in ERA (4.33), but that’s largely a function of the quality results posted by Colome, Bummer, Marshall and Cordero. And there’s also reason to take that number with a grain of salt; the Chicago bullpen’s matching 4.69 FIP and xFIP ranked 18th and 21st among MLB teams while posting the fifth-highest walk rate (10.8 percent) and fifth-worst strikeout rate (21.7 percent) in all of baseball. White Sox relievers were tied with Royals relievers for the worst K-BB% in the Majors.”

The bullpen definitely had some luck on their side and even overachieved last season. Even if you factor in positive regression from Herrera and Fry to bounce back, it is still not a very good bullpen.

As far as reinforcements go,I don’t want to count on anyone from upper minors or NRIs to break out. If someone does great, I’m sure we will find a spot for them, but damn it lets go out and sign two of the top arms left and build a playoff caliber bullpen (provided they aren’t more than 2 year deals). A good bullpen shortens ballgames and helps this young staff tremendously.

Yes thank you for the statistical help which backed up exactly what I was saying.I stuck up for Colome all year because he was getting results but I knew his FIp showed he was pitching in some luck. I believe that only to a certain extent because results matter more and people use FIP to push the narrative of future gloom and are ready to pounce even during a slight bit of misfortune that all relievers go through. I remember distinctly when Marshall had a bad spell and the reactionaries on here game threading about he is who we thought he was.

People now use some of these stats to take all the fun out of watching a game. He's getting lucky. Stats say he isn't as good as he looks. That is not to say I am blind to these things which why I posted what you quoted. We need more K's and less walks that was plain to see without advanced stats and we all know the fickle nature of arms in the pen to begin with. I am not so concerned with Colome because he has been a consistent reliever for a few years but he will probably be worse just because he was very good and that is hard to sustain. Bummer is the only other one we can trust to a high degree. The rest are hit and miss.

 

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Puig is a clubhouse cancer and is not wanted on this team.  The Sox team last year was a close knit group made up of team players and not single players looking for attention (ala Puig, Sammy Sosa).   I love how the bullpen greets the starting pitcher in the outfield for his walk to the bullpen.  The new additions Keuchel and Gio will mentor the young pitchers and are quality team players same goes for EE.  Mazara will hopefully follow their lead and not become a distraction.  Leury Garcia is our platoon RF and Engle will back-up Robert in CF until Rutherford, Basbe, or Adolfo arrive.  All we need at this point is some bullpen help and for Herrara to have a bounce back and 85-90 wins is not out of reach.

My preference would  be Engle in the RF platoon but I liked your post.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, zisk said:

Would Hunter Pence be a better fit than Puig? Pence will be 37 next year, but still hits lefties pretty well. At his age he's well

aware that he's not an every day player any more. Don't know about his defense in RF though.

I think he would be.

[Moan4Yoan]

Puig might be running out of options.  The Marlins just signed Corey Dickerson to a 2-year deal.  It will be interesting to see how much money Dickerson received.