Blackout Friday Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 A lot of the little things that give him extra value aren’t things typically valued a lot in arbitration. That could change in the next cba, but I’d wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, Moan4Yoan said: I disagree due to his complete lack of power. I mentioned him already but remember Jeremy Reed? He had slightly better minor league numbers than Madrigal and he busted big time. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=6708 These two aren't really that similar. Reed wasn't as fast, he wasn't as good of a baserunner, he wasn't a 65+ grade defender, and he struck out more in an era where striking out happened less. Mardrigal is running historically great strike out numbers, and he plays a position with less emphasis on power. Reed also hit the ball in the air with much more frequency which is bad given his limited iso outputs. Reed was also a lefty who absolutely could not hit lefties. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Willians Astudillo. Just because you don't strike out doesn't mean you aren't making outs. You just do it in different ways. Astudillo doesn't strike out, sure, but he swings at EVERYTHING and he has horrible plate discipline. Madrigal has great plate discipline and a much better understanding of the strike zone than Astudillo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pal Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 No. Keep some of the cheap young talent, cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: This. Sure, he could be the next Pedroia or Altuve if he ever ever gains some muscle and develops some power. But he also has high bust potential, and by bust I mean a mediocre infielder like David Eckstein. There’s no reason to potentially overpay him until you see what he can do. Anyone remember Jeremy Reed? He was an outfielder that didn’t strike out much at all, hit for a very high average, but had no power whatsoever. Dude crashed and burned in the majors. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=6708 Guys like Lowe and Kingery were third and second round picks. Lowe received $24 million from the Rays. Madrigal was selected 4th overall, he’s going to get at least $30-40 million. In a lot of ways, I feel more confident about him being a perennial 2-3 fWAR player than the likes of Robert, Kopech and Cease, but we’ll see. We know all about the power and BB rate concerns, but those questions will start to be answered soon enough. A year ago, many were questioning the pick entirely. The importance of someone who does everything correctly from a fundamentals standpoint and is like a manager on the field cannot be easily captured from a statistical perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Astudillo doesn't strike out, sure, but he swings at EVERYTHING and he has horrible plate discipline. Madrigal has great plate discipline and a much better understanding of the strike zone than Astudillo. ? And Madrigal plays GG defense and can steal bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pal said: No. Keep some of the cheap young talent, cheap. Most of our talent is cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Robert has the ceiling of an Elite ML player, reason why you take that long term risk. Can't say Madrigal has a ceiling as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pal Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Not pre-arb cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Robert has the ceiling of an Elite ML player, reason why you take that long term risk. Can't say Madrigal has a ceiling as high. I think that's the end of it. Plus, you already have $50 million of your dollars in Robert. It would be horrible to lose him in some weird CBA thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I see no reason to extend Madrigal. He has a few things to work on anyway. Call him up if he starts hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Since Robert got extended, I think the Sox could safely keep Madrigal down for a month without being accused of service time manipulation. That way you could get a 7th year on him, and if he performs in the first year, you could still extend him for a fairly reasonable amount. This is basically where I am too. Madrigal was really good in his 29 games in Charlotte last summer, but not in an eye popping knock your socks off dominant fashion that begged for an immediate call up. If the FO sees fit to offer his a team friendly deal I won't complain, but he is much more wait and see to me. I don't think anyone one can really argue against with a few more weeks of seasoning in AAA before making his debut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SouthWallace said: This is basically where I am too. Madrigal was really good in his 29 games in Charlotte last summer, but not in an eye popping knock your socks off dominant fashion that begged for an immediate call up. If the FO sees fit to offer his a team friendly deal I won't complain, but he is much more wait and see to me. I don't think anyone one can really argue against with a few more weeks of seasoning in AAA before making his debut. He was absolutely dominant in AA though, which is probably a tougher league to succeed in at this moment in time. That said, obviously he has no case for being called up immediately. Edited January 3, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Madrigal hit well in his time with Charlotte but he was also sometime behind Luis when he was going through the system. I could see madrigal getting some games in Charlotte to get more reps then bring him up tho spring training will be interesting to see how he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, flavum said: Or they could just go off script, and bring him up on Day 1 without a long term deal. Less likely, but some teams have done that recently. This might be the way to go. In general I am a huge proponent of extensions and RH has proved he knows how to sell them. In this case I want Madrigal on the OD lineup and you can still extend him in a year. My kneejerk reaction would be to extend him now but I do see very little to lose by bringing him up for OD and waiting to extend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: This might be the way to go. In general I am a huge proponent of extensions and RH has proved he knows how to sell them. In this case I want Madrigal on the OD lineup and you can still extend him in a year. My kneejerk reaction would be to extend him now but I do see very little to lose by bringing him up for OD and waiting to extend. I think he should be allowed to win the job in spring - if he has a big spring, the job should be his. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) I would be willing to *if* he is willing to give the Sox more years of control. Obviously not for record breaking money. But if they could get two or three years of control (team options) signing an extension now rather than the extra one Robert got, I'd probably gamble on it. Edited January 3, 2020 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 55 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I would be willing to *if* he is willing to give the Sox more years of control. Obviously not for record breaking money. But if they could get two or three years of control (team options) signing an extension now rather than the extra one Robert got, I'd probably gamble on it. At the right numbers you wouldn't be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Astudillo is actually an example of why I think Madrigal might succeed. That guy had zero skills aside from a crazy hit tool. It brought an unlikely guy to the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Not worth it for one extra year, unless Hahnny thinks he will be an elite player worthy of a 200m deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 No rush on Nick right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 If he were to sign an extension, I would guess it would be like Kingery or White's contract extensions from Mariners and Phillies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 hours ago, bmags said: Astudillo is actually an example of why I think Madrigal might succeed. That guy had zero skills aside from a crazy hit tool. It brought an unlikely guy to the majors. Astudillo is good and Madrigal will be better. Both do have similar hit tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, poppysox said: This might be the way to go. In general I am a huge proponent of extensions and RH has proved he knows how to sell them. In this case I want Madrigal on the OD lineup and you can still extend him in a year. My kneejerk reaction would be to extend him now but I do see very little to lose by bringing him up for OD and waiting to extend. Well, sure. If you look at Lowe and Kingery getting in the mid $20 millions vs. Jimenez’s $43 million and Robert’s $52 million guaranteed. How much will Madrigal ask for if he’s AL ROY or at least Top 3-5 finisher to buy out one or two FA years? Edited January 4, 2020 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Well, sure. If you look at Lowe and Kingery getting in the mid $20 millions vs. Jimenez’s $43 million and Robert’s $52 million guaranteed. How much will Madrigal ask for if he’s AL ROY or at least Top 3-5 finisher to buy out one or two FA years? Just like not signing McCann to an extension last year. If we had signed him to a two year extension last year...he would have more value if we wanted to move him now. Let's say we could add a couple years of control for 25-30 million. I think that would be money well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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