Dick Allen Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: You're right that we won't really know how good the class is/was for a long time. I just have a fundamental problem with the way they do business or did business in this case. Exactly. If you don't spend it you know how it will result. Micker Adolfo may ultimately be a waste of money, but it's far better to take a shot at someone of his ilk than to save the owner some money he will never neef. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Paddy has an entire department of international scouts under him. It's not just him. I know that but the strength of having a strong presence around the world and committing the funds necessary to do that was my point. Sorry if you though my response was thinking that Paddy was the only scout. I think I have built up a strong presence on Soxtalk here based on my knowledge and posts over 15 years to know you can't run a whole international department with just one scout. I only mentioned Paddy because you said: "There's either a reluctance to pay a "premium" in this marketplace or Marco Paddy can't scout and close the deal. I don't believe the latter is true. So my response was Paddy can't be everywhere. He just can't be everywhere the talent is so i'm not sure how strong the commitment around the world is using others beside Paddy. The strength of the whole department is what I am questioning and perhaps the funds needed to make it a stronger presence. More scouts , more travel a longer time in many areas ,network, build relationships close the deal. The reluctance to pay a premium not only means the signing of top players but the premium that goes into networking. Edited January 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: For our sake, I'm hoping they had deals worked out with Cuban defectors who weren't allowed to come over once Trump vetoed that process. That's the only positive thing that could have happened in this regard. The way they handled the 2019 international class really makes no sense That’s an interesting angle and one I hadn’t thought of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I know that but the strength of having a strong presence around the world and committing the funds necessary to do that was my point. Sorry if you though my response was thinking that Paddy was the only scout. I think I have built up a strong presence on Soxtalk here based on my knowledge and posts over 15 years to know you can't run a whole international department with just one scout. I only mentioned Paddy because you said: "There's either a reluctance to pay a "premium" in this marketplace or Marco Paddy can't scout and close the deal. I don't believe the latter is true. So my response was Paddy can't be everywhere. He just can't be everywhere the talent is so i'm not sure how strong the commitment around the world is using others beside Paddy. The strength of the whole department is what I am questioning and perhaps the funds needed to make it a stronger presence. More scouts , more travel a longer time in many areas ,network, build relationships close the deal. The reluctance to pay a premium not only means the signing of top players but the premium that goes into networking. I gotcha. You might be onto something in regards to their entire program being behind other teams. Ben Badler basically confirmed some of that on our podcast last month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I gotcha. You might be onto something in regards to their entire program being behind other teams. Ben Badler basically confirmed some of that on our podcast last month. You are terrible at self promotion . Give a link when you say things like that. I'm not real good at keeping up with podcasts on a regular basis . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) So I’m sorry but I haven’t read through this entire thread. If Colas waits until this summer to sign, will the Sox be able to offer him as much money as any other team? If so, this seems like a no-brainer. His minor league development could line up perfectly with Mazara’s exit in a couple seasons. Even if he isn’t as good as Ohtani, we will still need a RF and it would be pretty cool to have a guy that could also come in and lefty relieve. Edited January 5, 2020 by Moan4Yoan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 There might be a $1-2M difference between the top and bottom teams. Bad teams get more than the good teams , You can also trade for more. Some teams might already have committed some of their money with players they have already established relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There might be a $1-2M difference between the top and bottom teams. Bad teams get more than the good teams , You can also trade for more. Some teams might already have committed some of their money with players they have already established relationships. Bonus pools are no longer based on W-L record but rather market size I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Bonus pools are no longer based on W-L record but rather market size I believe. Here's last years list , I can't tell what it's based on. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2019-20-mlb-international-bonus-pools/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I'm not as convinced he is even as good a prospect as Yolbert was coming out (despite being a year younger although he probably has a higher ceiling, though he's raw) but I trust Paddy in this. It's a free lottery ticket in either case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 In these cases, you take the players who have the ability to play any position up the middle with at least 3-4 tools and spread the money around instead of putting all your eggs in one basket. Unless they’re convinced he can realistically be a two-way player and will be a positive addition to the mix, there’s no point in getting into a bidding war over a player who has very little in common with Ohtani except the nice marketing catch-phrase they fed to Passan. He also has added that Japanese leg kick timing mechanism to his hitting, which doesn’t always translate well to the faster pace of the American game. On the plus side, Coca-Cola would be willing to spend hugely on a future superstar with the last name of Colas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SoxAce said: I'm not as convinced he is even as good a prospect as Yolbert was coming out (despite being a year younger although he probably has a higher ceiling, though he's raw) but I trust Paddy in this. It's a free lottery ticket in either case. C’mon, this is a bit ridiculous. The Sox signed Yolbert at age 22 and there was never any hype that he was some sort of amazing hitter. He was projected as a backup infielder from the start, not a potential power hitting right fielder / starting pitcher. Edited January 5, 2020 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: C’mon, this is a bit ridiculous. The Sox signed Yolbert at age 22 and there was never any hype that he was some sort of amazing hitter. He was projected as a backup infielder from the start, not a potential power hitting right fielder / starting pitcher. He was the #4 ranked international prospect available at the time. Yolbert also has an elite (or what scouts described, special) glove. If Colas signs in July, he'll be 2 months away from being 22 himself. There's also the comparison of him being in the Japan minor leagues to Sanchez who played in the Cuban league. Honestly, I have no idea what the league Colas played in compares to. FYI, I already acknowledged Colas likely has the higher ceiling, Sanchez likely the higher floor. Was just stating I believe Colas is much less advanced when I meant by better coming out (which goes back to me saying I have no idea how the Japanese minor league Colas played in compares). Edited January 5, 2020 by SoxAce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, SoxAce said: He was the #4 ranked international prospect available at the time. Yolbert also has an elite (or what scouts described, special) glove. If Colas signs in July, he'll be 2 months away from being 22 himself. There's also the comparison of him being in the Japan minor leagues to Sanchez who played in the Cuban league. Honestly, I have no idea what the league Colas played in compares to. FYI, I already acknowledged Colas likely has the higher ceiling, Sanchez likely the higher floor. Was just stating I believe Colas is much less advanced when I meant by better coming out (which goes back to me saying I have no idea how the Japanese minor league Colas played in compares). What about their respective offensive stats? Yolbert’s screamed backup infielder and Colas’s look like a legit power hitting right fielder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Sanchez will be 23 by Opening Day and hasn’t even debuted with Kanny. At this rate, he’ll be lucky to make the big leagues by 26/27. In comparison, look at the career and minor league numbers for the offensively-challenged Yolmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Sanchez will be 23 by Opening Day and hasn’t even debuted with Kanny. At this rate, he’ll be lucky to make the big leagues by 26/27. In comparison, look at the career and minor league numbers for the offensively-challenged Yolmer. He won’t be debuting with Kanny that’s for sure. It’s either Winston-Salem or Birmingham for him next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: He won’t be debuting with Kanny that’s for sure. It’s either Winston-Salem or Birmingham for him next year. That might be the fast-track approach...but they also need to consider that letting him get out to a confident start in Low A before Winston-Salem in mid-May is the best way to grow his prospect value. The other argument is that he’s missed a ton of game action over the last two years and is just getting his feet under him. And it’s not like we are going to be replacing Anderson or Madrigal anytime soon. Best case scenario, he’s Alcides Escobar and can be packaged with other prospects to fill in holes on the MLB roster. A decade ago, you could afford two offensively-challenged starters out of 2B, SS and CF. No longer the case...especially with the falloff in catching talent over that time frame. Sanchez is said to have a "polished glove" that is major league ready. Yolbert is an elite defender with a 65 grade on his fielding and a 55 grade on his arm tool. He also possesses 55 grade speed. He sprays balls from "line-to-line" and is considered to be a line drive hitter with the potential to hit 8-10 homers annually. His offense is significantly behind his defense with 45 grade tools in the hit and power department. Scouts also like Sanchez's game instincts and track record. http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2019/03/white-sox-interested-in-22-year-old-cuban-ss-yolbert-sanchez/ Edited January 5, 2020 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You are terrible at self promotion . Give a link when you say things like that. I'm not real good at keeping up with podcasts on a regular basis . Here ya go: http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2019/12/futuresox-podcast-ben-badler-of-baseball-america/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: C’mon, this is a bit ridiculous. The Sox signed Yolbert at age 22 and there was never any hype that he was some sort of amazing hitter. He was projected as a backup infielder from the start, not a potential power hitting right fielder / starting pitcher. I wouldn’t buy into that Ohtani BS. Someone who’s not pitching in Japan minors at age 21 is not going to start at MLB level, especially when he’s have to focus on hitting as well. Best case he may be a RP on the pitching side, even that may be a bit iffy. I would like to see more reports on his athletic and defensive profile, he compares to closer to a Viciedo or Tomas to me. Edited January 5, 2020 by thxfrthmmrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Here ya go: http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/2019/12/futuresox-podcast-ben-badler-of-baseball-america/ I listened. Good job. I know in those situations to make it more interesting to the listeners you have to focus on players. But I'm glad you asked about the Sox facility in the DR. I'm one of those guys who is more interested in the process and how things work in other country's. Do some teams not only pay their U.S. based scouts to travel to see players but also hire locals ? I don't know what Tatis Sr. does now but someone like him might be a good hire. Give him a yearly salary and let him be a local scout in the DR and if not him maybe he could recommend someone. I think someone respected in the area would go a long way. Pay him enough to be not tempted to make underhanded deals give him an expense account and be a Sox only type scout who doesn't pass info on to other teams. He would be much better at building relationships living there full time and knowing a lot of people . Do the same thing in other parts of the world. I probably have to watch some of those videos Caulfield always recommends about the "coyotes" to understand more about the dark side of the process. Edited January 5, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, caulfield12 said: In these cases, you take the players who have the ability to play any position up the middle with at least 3-4 tools and spread the money around instead of putting all your eggs in one basket. Unless they’re convinced he can realistically be a two-way player and will be a positive addition to the mix, there’s no point in getting into a bidding war over a player who has very little in common with Ohtani except the nice marketing catch-phrase they fed to Passan. He also has added that Japanese leg kick timing mechanism to his hitting, which doesn’t always translate well to the faster pace of the American game. On the plus side, Coca-Cola would be willing to spend hugely on a future superstar with the last name of Colas. Ohtani. when he came the the Angels .had one of those kicks and he learned that it wasn't effective and changed it to a toe tap and it made all the difference for him. This is a good article on it. It explains who suggested it and explains Ohtani's willingness to learn and listen and inquiry and learn from others like Pujols. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23298771/shohei-ohtani-made-one-small-step-way-mlb-success Edited January 5, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrankinSox Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 For what it's worth, maybe not much, Scott Merkin did just retweet Jesse Sanchez's article about Colas. Here's the article (apologies of already posted in this thread): https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/oscar-luis-colas-defects-to-pursue-mlb-deal.html?__twitter_impression=true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 https://www.sbnation.com/2020/1/5/21049586/oscar-colas-mlb-prospect-news A more philosophical take, not any real news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: You guys and your fake twitter accounts.....when will people learn? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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