Cuban Phenom defecting Oscar Colas

[caulfield12]

https://redsminorleagues.com/2020/01/03/should-the-reds-look-into-cuban-free-agent-oscar-colas/
 

Looks like the Reds are going to be one of our main competitors...very nice, detailed write-up here.  They've been very active with intl free agents over the last decade plus.

I love the idea of signing 10-12 guys like this, compared to extending Moncada and Giolito.  Have a feeling bridging the their stellar 2019 seasons versus previous years in terms of proper valuations will prove to be incredibly difficult.  Time will tell.  Of course, the reality is we don't get a shot at a guy like this more than every 3-4 years, so it’s not exactly like we can “corner the market” on him.

Would be interested to hear what Robert, Moncada and Abreu have to say about him...

Edited January 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Are there actual reports that show JR being against IFA because of moral issues? I mean he is signing 16 year olds, just not the top ranked prospects to large contracts. Every year we bring in a number of 16-17 year olds from the LatAM market, the Baileys, Guzmans, Sosas, etc. So it isn't that the Sox is against signing kids that young.

I am actually not aware that the IFA bonus is given by MLB, are you certain of that? Given teams were responsible for paying signing bonuses under the old CBA, I believe the new CBA only caps the IFA spending, but bonuses are still part of the player development expenditure in the team's operating expense. I could be wrong here.

Either way, Robert signing was different. When he was coming out of Cuba, there were multiple reports that hyped him up as the best player in the world at the time, and he was more or less MLB ready. Had the report hold true, the $50M expenditure for Robert would have been money well spent, at least from JR's perspective.

The moral issues thing is my own take because I could see no reason for signing some 16 year olds but not others. Maybe he gets reports about their family life or who represents them and if he does have moral issues he could be more picky about who they give contracts to based on family or handlers of prospects and perhaps avoid certain handlers.  Like with Tatis, Jr. and his younger brother, who we also signed, perhaps they discovered it was a decent family not desperate for money because the father of the Tatis boys ( Fernando Tatis, Sr.) played MLB. Again that's my take, not corroborated with anything concrete.

As far as the other question about MLB giving them the money I am probably wrong and the things I have read I misinterpreted such as this :

As per the 2017-21 Collective Bargaining Agreement, clubs are each subject to a spending cap for amateur international free agents. Each club will have at least a $4.75 million bonus pool to spend, with those that have a pick in Competitive Balance Round A receiving $5.25 million and those with a pick in Competitive Balance Round B receiving $5.75 million.

The key words I may have misinterpreted is "receiving" which you can see twice in the last sentence above. I thought it meant receiving money when it's probably actually referring to receiving word from MLB how much you are allowed to spend. So I am still not certain if I am right or wrong.

Yes Robert was different in the way you describe but he was also just 18 when the Sox signed him and he surely would have got more had the Sox not signed him. Scouting reports however, glowing in nature do not remove a high risk. An 18 year old is still just 18 and still has to run the gauntlet through the trials and errors of playing against superior talent. A team will do it's due diligence to find out where is head is at , if he works hard. if he seems mature for his age but there are things that despite your best efforts you may never know about like what's in someones head. How will he respond to having so much money ? Will he become lax in his preparation etc. Will his skills translate when facing the superior talent, How will he respond to injury or failure ? High drafts picks bust all the time and Robert was younger by 3 or 4 years than a lot of the college player the Sox used to and still do draft in the 1st round like Madrigal and Vaughn, Top 5 American draft picks receive signing bonuses somewhere around $10M. Robert got $26M and the Sox paid another $26M in penalty money and also lost 2 years that limited what they could spend. I still call that high risk especially when weighed against how much a team spends in the drafting of American players every year, the majority of them ending up as filler in the minors until they quit baseball. Also IFA's like Soto  ($1.5 M at age 16) or Acuna (only $100K to sign him which was twice as much as the next team in line for him.) sign for a pittance compared to Robert so I fail to see why not signing them is risk aversion but signing Roberts had little to no risk.

The Sox actually could've signed Acuna even if they were in the penalty though I think he was signed before the penalty when they had a full allotment ! We can keep asking these same questions over and over again "Where is our Soto ? Wheres is our Acuna ? Why did we bother to sign Tatis only to trade the one guy who ended up a major talent ? Would he have ended up a major talent had the Sox signed him ?

Like I said, perhaps I was giving JR too much benefit of the doubt with my theory about morality . Maybe it's just another way of not spending what you  need to in order to scout and sign those players and they only end up signing the easy ones. The Sox seemed like they used to have a presence in Venezuela which is where Acuna was from plus he also had a baseball pedigree, maybe the Sox only scout in certain areas now and won't spend for trips to so many different places to find the best international young talent. I suppose cheapness is a lot easier to say.

Talent from the Dominican Republic has been flowing into MLB for a while now yet I can't recall any DR players the Sox signed that became huge ML talents but those major talents were all over baseball.

But if the Sox don't end up with sustained excellence they only have themselves to blame for buying one big shiny apple like Robert when they could've been involved from the start and had another source of talent flowing through the farm system like the Twins do and many other teams. Penny wise pound foolish.

Edited January 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The moral issues thing is my own take because I could see no reason for signing some 16 year olds but not others. Maybe he gets reports about their family life or who represents them and if he does have moral issues he could be more picky about who they give contracts to based on family or handlers of prospects and perhaps avoid certain handlers.  Like with Tatis, Jr. and his younger brother, who we also signed, perhaps they discovered it was a decent family not desperate for money because the father of the Tatis boys ( Fernando Tatis, Sr.) played MLB. Again that's my take, not corroborated with anything concrete.

As far as the other question about MLB giving them the money I am probably wrong and the things I have read I misinterpreted such as this :

As per the 2017-21 Collective Bargaining Agreement, clubs are each subject to a spending cap for amateur international free agents. Each club will have at least a $4.75 million bonus pool to spend, with those that have a pick in Competitive Balance Round A receiving $5.25 million and those with a pick in Competitive Balance Round B receiving $5.75 million.

The key words I may have misinterpreted is "receiving" which you can see twice in the last sentence above. I thought it meant receiving money when it's probably actually referring to receiving word from MLB how much you are allowed to spend. So I am still not certain if I am right or wrong.

Yes Robert was different in the way you describe but he was also just 18 when the Sox signed him and he surely would have got more had the Sox not signed him. Scouting reports however, glowing in nature do not remove a high risk. An 18 year old is still just 18 and still has to run the gauntlet through the trials and errors of playing against superior talent. A team will do it's due diligence to find out where is head is at , if he works hard. if he seems mature for his age but there are things that despite your best efforts you may never know about like what's in someones head. How will he respond to having so much money ? Will he become lax in his preparation etc. Will his skills translate when facing the superior talent, How will he respond to injury or failure ? High drafts picks bust all the time and Robert was younger by 3 or 4 years than a lot of the college player the Sox used to and still do draft in the 1st round like Madrigal and Vaughn, Top 5 American draft picks receive signing bonuses somewhere around $10M. Robert got $26M and the Sox paid another $26M in penalty money and also lost 2 years that limited what they could spend. I still call that high risk especially when weighed against how much a team spends in the drafting of American players every year, the majority of them ending up as filler in the minors until they quit baseball. Also IFA's like Soto  ($1.5 M at age 16) or Acuna (only $100K to sign him which was twice as much as the next team in line for him.) sign for a pittance compared to Robert so I fail to see why not signing them is risk adversion but signing Roberts had little to no risk.

Like I said, perhaps I was giving JR too much benefit of the doubt with my theory about morality . Maybe it's just another way of not spending what you  need to in order to scout and sign those players and they only end up signing the easy ones. The Sox seemed like they used to have a presence in Venezuela which is where Acuna was from plus he also had a baseball pedigree, maybe the Sox only scout in certain areas now and won't spend for trips to so many different places to find the best international young talent. I suppose cheapness is a lot easier to say.

But if the Sox don't end up with sustained excellence they only have themselves to blame for buying one big shiny apple like Robert when they could've been involved from the start and had another source of talent flowing through the farm system like the Twins do and many other teams. Penny wise pound foolish.

After Ozzie left, our connection to Venezuelan players was gone.

We never had the year-round presence down there like 10-12 teams before the political situation fell apart and everyone pulled up stakes.

We pushed into Brazil and Colombia with Wilder, but we all know how that ended.   The situation in the Dominican hasn't dramatically improved, but now at least we have Jimenez and EE.  Very little presence in Puerto Rico as well.

Nothing out of Japan and Korea since Iguchi and Takatsu.

Then you add in being one of the very worst teams at developing talent this decade...it all starts to add up into a bigger picture that falls in line with the team’s overall record from 2013-2019.   Seven years in the wilderness.

 

This was from April of 2010, another nothing burger in a long series of them.

CHICAGO -- The Chicago White Sox have hired former Chicago Bulls general manager Jerry Krause to be a baseball consultant. Krause's main duties will be to help observe and revamp the scouting system in the Dominican Republic.

The system in the Dominican has been under close scrutiny since former director of Latin American affairs David Wilder was accused of reportedly demanding kickbacks from Dominican prospects after inflating their values.

Krause has extensive baseball scouting experience, including having worked for the White Sox in the 1970s and '80s, before taking over as Bulls GM.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/394/white-sox-hire-ex-bulls-gm-krause-as-consultant

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

After Ozzie left, our connection to Venezuelan players was gone.

We never had the year-round presence down there like 10-12 teams before the political situation fell apart and everyone pulled up stakes.

We pushed into Brazil and Colombia with Wilder, but we all know how that ended.   The situation in the Dominican hasn't dramatically improved, but now at least we have Jimenez and EE.  Very little presence in Puerto Rico as well.

Nothing out of Japan and Korea since Iguchi and Takatsu.

Then you add in being one of the very worst teams at developing talent this decade...it all starts to add up into a bigger picture that falls in line with the team’s overall record from 2013-2019.   Seven years in the wilderness.

 

This was from April of 2010, another nothing burger in a long series of them.

CHICAGO -- The Chicago White Sox have hired former Chicago Bulls general manager Jerry Krause to be a baseball consultant. Krause's main duties will be to help observe and revamp the scouting system in the Dominican Republic.

The system in the Dominican has been under close scrutiny since former director of Latin American affairs David Wilder was accused of reportedly demanding kickbacks from Dominican prospects after inflating their values.

Krause has extensive baseball scouting experience, including having worked for the White Sox in the 1970s and '80s, before taking over as Bulls GM.

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/394/white-sox-hire-ex-bulls-gm-krause-as-consultant

Yea my post was a long excursion but I knew it was still short of all the stuff that has revealed the Sox as bumbling fools in that area. Signing Robert does not excuse years and year of incompetence in drafting and developing of any player be it IFA or the American draft. It's just Internationally the Sox have been a fiasco year after year after year. Thank you for your support.

[caulfield12]

Right now, the biggest concern with Colas is his size/weight/frame.   Maybe our fitness/nutrition staff can improve that, but it’s not like Japan is known for junk food diets like the US or Cuba.

Similar to Viciedo (who also had a really strong arm), he might never find a position other than 1B/DH...or possibly corner outfield.  So the risk is he’s closer to Yasmani Tomas or Soler than five tool talents like Robert and Moncada.

That, and the fact we’re really set at 1B/DH with Abreu, Vaughn, EE and Collins.

He’s going to have to be a dominant hitter, like Jimenez.  Reading on the internet, always the most trustworthy source, some had him more highly regarded than Yordan Alvarez at the same age.

Edited January 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The moral issues thing is my own take because I could see no reason for signing some 16 year olds but not others. Maybe he gets reports about their family life or who represents them and if he does have moral issues he could be more picky about who they give contracts to based on family or handlers of prospects and perhaps avoid certain handlers.  Like with Tatis, Jr. and his younger brother, who we also signed, perhaps they discovered it was a decent family not desperate for money because the father of the Tatis boys ( Fernando Tatis, Sr.) played MLB. Again that's my take, not corroborated with anything concrete.

As far as the other question about MLB giving them the money I am probably wrong and the things I have read I misinterpreted such as this :

As per the 2017-21 Collective Bargaining Agreement, clubs are each subject to a spending cap for amateur international free agents. Each club will have at least a $4.75 million bonus pool to spend, with those that have a pick in Competitive Balance Round A receiving $5.25 million and those with a pick in Competitive Balance Round B receiving $5.75 million.

The key words I may have misinterpreted is "receiving" which you can see twice in the last sentence above. I thought it meant receiving money when it's probably actually referring to receiving word from MLB how much you are allowed to spend. So I am still not certain if I am right or wrong.

Yes Robert was different in the way you describe but he was also just 18 when the Sox signed him and he surely would have got more had the Sox not signed him. Scouting reports however, glowing in nature do not remove a high risk. An 18 year old is still just 18 and still has to run the gauntlet through the trials and errors of playing against superior talent. A team will do it's due diligence to find out where is head is at , if he works hard. if he seems mature for his age but there are things that despite your best efforts you may never know about like what's in someones head. How will he respond to having so much money ? Will he become lax in his preparation etc. Will his skills translate when facing the superior talent, How will he respond to injury or failure ? High drafts picks bust all the time and Robert was younger by 3 or 4 years than a lot of the college player the Sox used to and still do draft in the 1st round like Madrigal and Vaughn, Top 5 American draft picks receive signing bonuses somewhere around $10M. Robert got $26M and the Sox paid another $26M in penalty money and also lost 2 years that limited what they could spend. I still call that high risk especially when weighed against how much a team spends in the drafting of American players every year, the majority of them ending up as filler in the minors until they quit baseball. Also IFA's like Soto  ($1.5 M at age 16) or Acuna (only $100K to sign him which was twice as much as the next team in line for him.) sign for a pittance compared to Robert so I fail to see why not signing them is risk aversion but signing Roberts had little to no risk.

The Sox actually could've signed Acuna even if they were in the penalty though I think he was signed before the penalty when they had a full allotment ! We can keep asking these same questions over and over again "Where is our Soto ? Wheres is our Acuna ? Why did we bother to sign Tatis only to trade the one guy who ended up a major talent ? Would he have ended up a major talent had the Sox signed him ?

Like I said, perhaps I was giving JR too much benefit of the doubt with my theory about morality . Maybe it's just another way of not spending what you  need to in order to scout and sign those players and they only end up signing the easy ones. The Sox seemed like they used to have a presence in Venezuela which is where Acuna was from plus he also had a baseball pedigree, maybe the Sox only scout in certain areas now and won't spend for trips to so many different places to find the best international young talent. I suppose cheapness is a lot easier to say.

Talent from the Dominican Republic has been flowing into MLB for a while now yet I can't recall any DR players the Sox signed that became huge ML talents but those major talents were all over baseball.

But if the Sox don't end up with sustained excellence they only have themselves to blame for buying one big shiny apple like Robert when they could've been involved from the start and had another source of talent flowing through the farm system like the Twins do and many other teams. Penny wise pound foolish.

Robert was a few months short of 20 when signed so he’s not super young as with a typical J2 signing. But the biggest difference I believe is Robert was a known commodity at the time, he had played for the Cuban national series for several years as well as the baseball World Cup, and succeeded against much older competition, which should be called out. There are a lot more information on him compared to even the most high profile J2 players these days. IIRC Robert also had several showcases after he defected and Sox had been heavily scouting him then. With J2 players teams are scouting them when they’re 13/14 year old these days and once the players have verbal agreement with the teams they stop working out for other teams or even go underground so the info on them is very limited (the main reason even a well-informed source like BA is delaying their LatAm prospect rankings). I think part of the issue also is Sox in recent years haven’t been very aggressive in scouting the LatAm market (e.g. in terms of scout head counts) so they’re letting other teams beat them to the punch in scouting the J2 players. Even if they were able to scout the player, those risk related question you mentioned for Robert is even more true for lesser known and younger kids.

Edited January 4, 2020 by thxfrthmmrs

[thxfrthmmrs]

Also as I mentioned in the original post, I still think they would sign a top prospect in J2 if a more senior scout stick their neck out and pushes for the player, e.g. the Adolfo signing.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Right now, the biggest concern with Colas is his size/weight/frame.   Maybe our fitness/nutrition staff can improve that, but it’s not like Japan is known for junk food diets like the US or Cuba.

Similar to Viciedo (who also had a really strong arm), he might never find a position other than 1B/DH...or possibly corner outfield.  So the risk is he’s closer to Yasmani Tomas or Soler than five tool talents like Robert and Moncada.

That, and the fact we’re really set at 1B/DH with Abreu, Vaughn, EE and Collins.

He’s going to have to be a dominant hitter, like Jimenez.  Reading on the internet, always the most trustworthy source, some had him more highly regarded than Yordan Alvarez at the same age.

That's usually a concern more like some of the scrawny 16 yr old kids who later blossom like Acuna, Jr.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Robert was a few months short of 20 when signed so he’s not super young as with a typical J2 signing. But the biggest difference I believe is Robert was a known commodity at the time, he had played for the Cuban national series for several years as well as the baseball World Cup, and succeeded against much older competition, which should be called out. There are a lot more information on him compared to even the most high profile J2 players these days. IIRC Robert also had several showcases after he defected and Sox had been heavily scouting him then. With J2 players teams are scouting them when they’re 13/14 year old these days and once the players have verbal agreement with the teams they stop working out for other teams or even go underground so the info on them is very limited (the main reason even a well-informed source like BA is delaying their LatAm prospect rankings). I think part of the issue also is Sox in recent years haven’t been very aggressive in scouting the LatAm market (e.g. in terms of scout head counts) so they’re letting other teams beat them to the punch in scouting the J2 players. Even if they were able to scout the player, those risk related question you mentioned for Robert is even more true for lesser known and younger kids.

It also didn't hurt that Abreu was a big part of the video pitch to Robert especially IIRC he was also a team mate at some point. Being a known commodity does not remove the risk. Yes some were hyping Robert as the best player on earth but we all know is something that has to be proved over a period of years at the highest level'

Other Cubans, though not exclaimed in such glowing terms, were known commodities like Rusney Castillo who at the age of 27 signed for a $5,4M bonus and a 7 year contract worth $72.5M .

Yasmany Tomas signed at age 23 to a 6 yr. $68.5M deal , I think his agent specifically wanted that much just to beat the Abreu deal.

Those 2 known commodities failed miserably despite whatever prompted the teams that signed them to big contracts.

Big money equals big risk no matter how you slice it, known commodity or not. WIthout Abreu maybe it's the Cardinals that end up with Robert despite the scouting and showcases .

The biggest concern is still how they operated in LatAM for years not developing relationships and maybe even to this day. They just are not networking enough and that shows in the results . As I said before it's a crap shoot like with all amateur talent so I know the risks involved in the top picks, lesser known and younger kids.

 I was looking at all the top ranked talent from the 3 main sources that ranked the International players in 2014 and who they ended up signing with and for how much the bonus was and I don't think I recognized any name except Amado Nunez who signed with the White Sox for $900K. Most were either Dominican or Venezuelan with a few exceptions being a few Colombians and 1 Korean counting all 3 resources lists of the top 30 .

One of the top kids in 2014 was SS Adrian Rondon who Tampa Bays signed as a 16 yr. old for $3M so even a team with little money knows the importance of  spending it despite the pratfalls that come with it. He had never got higher than A ball with the Rays and then  they traded him to the Angels last year.

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/7/4/5867329/2014-international-free-agent-ifa-signing-bonus-central

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Quin]

Keep weird numbers going

[caulfield12]

https://calltothepen.com/2020/01/04/oscar-colas-defects-cuba-looking-next-shohei-ohtani/#

Here are some videos... including one running. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Ive written too many screeds on our international operation.

I think the important part that gets left off as we discuss money is not only have they been reluctant to give $3 million to one 16 year old, they’ve been reluctant to give $3 million across ten 16 year olds.

Their classes have not only lacked top 16 year olds, they’ve been small.

I don’t think it’s a moral issue, I think it’s a over simplified risk argument from JR, especially as signing 16 year olds actually means signing 14 year olds now.

[Sarava]

Another question. JR shelled out 52 mil for Luis Robert while the Sox payroll was bottom 2-3 in baseball. And that's great that he did that. But will he do it again while the payroll is climbing fast? Eh, we'll see. Of course, I don't know that this guy will approach those types of dollars?

[bmags]

56 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Another question. JR shelled out 52 mil for Luis Robert while the Sox payroll was bottom 2-3 in baseball. And that's great that he did that. But will he do it again while the payroll is climbing fast? Eh, we'll see. Of course, I don't know that this guy will approach those types of dollars?

This guy will be under the current CBA restrictions. Will be restricted by team budgets.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

Another question. JR shelled out 52 mil for Luis Robert while the Sox payroll was bottom 2-3 in baseball. And that's great that he did that. But will he do it again while the payroll is climbing fast? Eh, we'll see. Of course, I don't know that this guy will approach those types of dollars?

There doesn’t seem to be any compelling reason to, if he’s limited to 1B.

For example, Jose Ruiz throws with similar or higher velocity...so it’s not like he can automatically be expected to contribute as a pitcher, although his left-handedness certainly helps.

How badly does he want to play for the White Sox?    Is he willing to take a slightly lower bonus?

Having that type of arm makes RF the other natural fit...but they’re obviously going to wait it out with Mazara and the prospects.  We’ll know a lot more by June/July about future needs.

Just depends on the scouting...if hitting is his big plus tool, he has to be able to hit high fastballs better than Viciedo. Heck, Dayan struggled with that when the average velocity was closer to 91-92 than what it is today, on average, across a 9 inning game.  As mentioned previously, Y.Tomas and Soler are going to be the comps.

 

Watching that video of him pitching in JPN, he’s got that classic Cuban hesitation but nothing about his stuff really blows you away.  Fastball doesn’t seem quite as electric as advertised, and that off-speed stuff will be feasted upon by big league hitters.  Needs to get in better shape.  

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Ive written too many screeds on our international operation.

I think the important part that gets left off as we discuss money is not only have they been reluctant to give $3 million to one 16 year old, they’ve been reluctant to give $3 million across ten 16 year olds.

Their classes have not only lacked top 16 year olds, they’ve been small.

I don’t think it’s a moral issue, I think it’s a over simplified risk argument from JR, especially as signing 16 year olds actually means signing 14 year olds now.

When have we not spent our entire bonus pool outside of last year?  And weren’t most of those prospects 16 years old?  We just never went hog wild and went into the penalty box like many other organizations did.

[bmags]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

When have we not spent our entire bonus pool outside of last year?  And weren’t most of those prospects 16 years old?  We just never went hog wild and went into the penalty box like many other organizations did.

The last 3 years. (And the answer to your other questions is no, most of the signees have been 17/18)

[Chicago White Sox]

37 minutes ago, bmags said:

The last 3 years. (And the answer to your other questions is no, most of the signees have been 17/18)

Come on man, we were in the penalty box two of those years.  This present signing class was the first time we didn’t effectively spend all our money.

As for the age thing, how does 16 or 17 make any difference in regards to your argument that Jerry doesn’t want to sign risky unproven players?  Regardless, our 2013 class included at least three 16 year olds (Adolfo, Feliz, & Acosta).  2014 class had at least three 16 year olds (Alfaro, Nunez, & Mota).  Our 2015 class included at least four 16 year olds (Reyes, Tatis, Vasquez, & Nova).  Our 2016 class included at least three 16 year olds (Guerrero, Mieses, & Comas).  I’m sure I’m missing a ton of other 16 year olds as it’s hard to get exact ages for a lot of the lower profile guys at the time of their signing.  Regardless, a lot of our big signings were 16 year olds prior to going into the penalty box and they weren’t the rarity you’re making them out to be.  Yes, these classes did have quite a few 17 year olds as well, but many of those guys were legit prospects (like Leynyn Sosa) and again I’m not sure how signing them is any different than signing a 16 year old from a risk perspective.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Ive written too many screeds on our international operation.

I think the important part that gets left off as we discuss money is not only have they been reluctant to give $3 million to one 16 year old, they’ve been reluctant to give $3 million across ten 16 year olds.

Their classes have not only lacked top 16 year olds, they’ve been small.

I don’t think it’s a moral issue, I think it’s a over simplified risk argument from JR, especially as signing 16 year olds actually means signing 14 year olds now.

Tampa Bay has had a $3M miss before yet that didn't stop them from giving $3.8M to Wander Franco. If Tampa Bay can see the importance of international scouting and player development despite one the lowest payrolls in baseball ,  it's hard for me to imagine a smart guy like JR would even have an over simplified risk argument . If an over simplified risk argument includes being too cheap to actually scout and develop relationships with 14 yr olds and  invest in these players then the Sox will always be behind the 8 ball.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

When have we not spent our entire bonus pool outside of last year?  And weren’t most of those prospects 16 years old?  We just never went hog wild and went into the penalty box like many other organizations did.

Here is a spreadsheet that I found for every major league team international signings from 2012 to 2016 . You can scroll around and find the Spx in the AL Central section and see for yourself. For example in 2013 the year they signed Adolfo they only spent $2.2M .

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rCfd8UiXUEGhhlwxhAES8BGjfQPLwrCLUTcB-k806Dc/edit#gid=0

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Here is a spreadsheet that I found for every major league team international signings from 2012 to 2016 . You can scroll around and find the Spx in the AL Central section and see for yourself. For example in 2013 the year they signed Adolfo they only spent $2.2M .

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rCfd8UiXUEGhhlwxhAES8BGjfQPLwrCLUTcB-k806Dc/edit#gid=0

That’s because they only had $2.2M of bonus pool that year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s because they only had $2.2M of bonus pool that year.

And what the explanation for that ? Is it just the full amount that they were allotted ? Sorry researching this is hard without a subscription to Baseball America which probably has more accurate info on the IFA draft and bonus pool allotment than the rest of the internet combined .

Edited January 4, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And what the explanation for that ?

Their record in 2012 was in the top half and the overall pool money was smaller then?

They also were never one of those competitive advantage teams like the Tigers and Cardinals...can’t remember if that was ever part of the pool money or just related to compensatory draft picks.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Their record in 2012 was in the top half and the overall pool money was smaller then?

They also were never one of those competitive advantage teams like the Tigers and Cardinals...can’t remember if that was ever part of the pool money or just related to compensatory draft picks.

Right I'm sure that's the reason and I edited my post before your post came up.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And what the explanation for that ? Is it just the full amount that they were alloted ?

Yes, I believe it was just based on prior year record.