Hahn is getting all the praise, Theo no longer "Sainted"

[Moan4Yoan]

33 minutes ago, Juschill said:

Wow - Renteria is now Girardi, Hinch, and Francona all rolled into one.  How did the Sox get so lucky?

Sure.  Ricky has everything they do, except for the lifetime winning record and World Series wins of course.

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You act like I’m the only one who thinks Renteria is a poor manager.  Many of his moves were shredded on a game-to-game basis on this very site last season.  He made questionable moves on a very frequent basis.

Regardless of my opinion or anyone else’s, Renteria led the 2014 Cubs to 73 wins and Theo decided to move on from him.  Renteria’s replacement went on to win 97 games in 2015 and then 103 games and the World Series in 2016.  But I guess that could all be a coincidence.  Meanwhile, only the Sox were interested in Renteria as a manager after two season without a job after the Cubs canned him, most likely because he was cheap.  Another coincidence I guess?

To me, the bar is making the playoffs this year.  I would suspect that is Hahn’s bar as well for 2020.

Not singling you out at all, you just had the most recent post rehashing the common Rentería complaints.  I’m just curious what the bar needs to be set at for anybody to STFU about him.

 His lineups bothered me, especially with Yonder, and then some of the bunting was brutal- same obvious complaints as most.   But he’s calm with the media and seems to have the clubhouse buying into his style, whatever that is.  Everyone has to be curious how he’ll do with a good team- the experiment is all set up.  
 

  So if he’s successful ENOUGH, however each person measures that, some ShuttingTFU will have to be in order.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Sure.  Ricky has everything they do, except for the lifetime winning record and World Series wins of course.

And if they had Renteria career lineups they'd have zero world series.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Sure.  Ricky has everything they do, except for the lifetime winning record and World Series wins of course.

So only accomplished people should be hired? No new managers. I didnt realize you were part of the good old boys club just recycle the old managers.

[Moan4Yoan]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

So only accomplished people should be hired? No new managers. I didnt realize you were part of the good old boys club just recycle the old managers.

Renteria has managed two teams and four miserable seasons to the tune of a 272–375 lifetime record.  He is also 58 years old so he already could be considered an “old manager.”  Obviously, lack of success could be dictated by having weak rosters but questionable managerial decisions in games on a frequent basis cannot be.  The Cubs immediately cut him loose after only one season once a better manager became available.  There was obvious lack of interest in him by teams needing a manager until the Sox came along who are notorious for not wanting to pay much for managers.  I guess it could all be a coincidence and none of it is Renteria’s fault.  Or it appears there are several key signs that point to Renteria not being valued as a quality manager throughout the MLB, regardless of any of our fan opinions.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[BackDoorBreach]

I can't believe there are this many Ricky apologists in here.  He is a trash manager you can keep around when your team sucks because he's cheap.

Lineup construction, bunting, "old school" outlook on the game, pen management, rarely steals, stubborn as shit, and on and on.

The good is he speaks Spanish and the players like him.  We will see if he stops being bad at obvious things this year with an actual MLB roster to manage.

[NCsoxfan]

5 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I can't believe there are this many Ricky apologists in here.  He is a trash manager you can keep around when your team sucks because he's cheap.

Lineup construction, bunting, "old school" outlook on the game, pen management, rarely steals, stubborn as shit, and on and on.

The good is he speaks Spanish and the players like him.  We will see if he stops being bad at obvious things this year with an actual MLB roster to manage.

Difference between 72 and 75 wins is meaningless, but between 87 and 90 could mean the playoffs...so we’ll obviously see a lot more scrutiny of him this year if status quo continues 

[FloydBannister1983]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And if they had Renteria career lineups they'd have zero world series.

So would everyone on this board.  You could make a better case for a comparison of Renteria to “Look at Ray Ray Run” than to Girardi, Hinch, and Francona.  The latter are serious baseball people.  Renteria is a clown.

 

[FloydBannister1983]

8 hours ago, ptatc said:

So only accomplished people should be hired? No new managers. I didnt realize you were part of the good old boys club just recycle the old managers.

I see your point.  It worked out so well the last time the Sox tried it.

 

[Moan4Yoan]

11 minutes ago, Juschill said:

I see your point.  It worked out so well the last time the Sox tried it.

 

Yep.  The Sox HAVE hired new managers.  They just seem to always pick the wrong ones.  This guy was a new manager and he was awful, yet he kept his job for 5 years.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Nonsense. When you have a player like Bryant you should not be outspent to retain him.

I'm down with pops on this one. Boras clients in most cases do not sign extensions because Boras drills it into their heads that they are obligated to drive the market ever-upward as an FA. Bryant is shaping up to be a classic overpay in my view. Some times the employer is punished to set an example unlike with Stras this season. The Cubs cannot afford to extend him so they need some MLB young talent in return. I otherwise do not take sides but you cannot afford to sign everybody with a shiny price tag.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

52 minutes ago, Juschill said:

So would everyone on this board.  You could make a better case for a comparison of Renteria to “Look at Ray Ray Run” than to Girardi, Hinch, and Francona.  The latter are serious baseball people.  Renteria is a clown.

 

Renteria isn't a serious baseball man? He's been in the game for 40 years! Renteria worked his way up through the ranks of minor league coaching; receiving praise for his development of young players as a MiLB manager in the 90's. Finally, he earned a shot as a big league coach after 11 years of managing/coaching in the minor leagues!

I don't think Renteria is a good strategic manager, but then again I don't think Francona is either. I think Francona is great at relating and working with his players, and maximizing their talents with his personality. I feel Renteria does a really nice job in the clubhouse and the players like him. I don't think he impacts the game negatively anywhere near the degree that some of you do. At the end of the day, players make plays, and even if you put a player who is slightly less likely to make a play in a situation it doesn't impact the outcome of the game anywhere near the degree you think. 

Hinch had a career .420 winning percentage in Arizona - with bad rosters - and was chased out of town due to his "inability to relate to the players." Rick Renteria's career win % as a manager? .427 with terrible teams as well. Judging a manager by his record with bad rosters is hilarious.

Saying Renteria isn't a serious baseball person is one of the biggest jokes I've seen on this forum since I started posting here. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

32 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Yep.  The Sox HAVE hired new managers.  They just seem to always pick the wrong ones.  This guy was a new manager and he was awful, yet he kept his job for 5 years.

Ozzie seemed to do OK.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, pcq said:

I'm down with pops on this one. Boras clients in most cases do not sign extensions because Boras drills it into their heads that they are obligated to drive the market ever-upward as an FA. Bryant is shaping up to be a classic overpay in my view. Some times the employer is punished to set an example unlike with Stras this season. The Cubs cannot afford to extend him so they need some MLB young talent in return. I otherwise do not take sides but you cannot afford to sign everybody with a shiny price tag.

Bryant isnt everybody. He's their best player and he's on a HOF trajectory. 

The Cubs are one of the three wealthiest teams in the game - they absolutely can afford to re-sign Bryant.

[FloydBannister1983]

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Ozzie seemed to do OK.

How did Bevington work out?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Juschill said:

How did Bevington work out?

Bad. I hate Larussa, but how did that one work out?

[FloydBannister1983]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Renteria isn't a serious baseball man? He's been in the game for 40 years! Renteria worked his way up through the ranks of minor league coaching; receiving praise for his development of young players as a MiLB manager in the 90's. Finally, he earned a shot as a big league coach after 11 years of managing/coaching in the minor leagues!

I don't think Renteria is a good strategic manager, but then again I don't think Francona is either. I think Francona is great at relating and working with his players, and maximizing their talents with his personality. I feel Renteria does a really nice job in the clubhouse and the players like him. I don't think he impacts the game negatively anywhere near the degree that some of you do. At the end of the day, players make plays, and even if you put a player who is slightly less likely to make a play in a situation it doesn't impact the outcome of the game anywhere near the degree you think. 

Hinch had a career .420 winning percentage in Arizona - with bad rosters - and was chased out of town due to his "inability to relate to the players." Rick Renteria's career win % as a manager? .427 with terrible teams as well. Judging a manager by his record with bad rosters is hilarious.

Saying Renteria isn't a serious baseball person is one of the biggest jokes I've seen on this forum since I started posting here. 

When good teams needed a good manager where were all the suitors beating down Renteria’s door if he’s such a serious baseball man?

(It’s funny that naysayers are always told “You don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse” but homers are allowed to say at will “I feel like he does a nice job in the clubhouse”.)

 

He’s a clown.  A Latin Terry Bevington.  There’s a reason the Cubs dumped him at their earliest opportunity.

 

[FloydBannister1983]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Bad. I hate Larussa, but how did that one work out?

Not very well for the White Sox.  They fired him before his Hall of Fame resume got going.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Juschill said:

When good teams needed a good manager where were all the suitors beating down Renteria’s door if he’s such a serious baseball man?

(It’s funny that naysayers are always told “You don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse” but homers are allowed to say at will “I feel like he does a nice job in the clubhouse”.)

 

He’s a clown.  A Latin Terry Bevington.  There’s a reason the Cubs dumped him at their earliest opportunity.

 

I know exactly what he does in the clubhouse. He has a unified group that rallies behind him and plays their asses off. 

A latin Terry Bevington might be dumber than saying he's not a serious baseball man. Bevington was handed a job he didnt earn or deserve. Renteria worked his way up and earned his shot. Bevington signaled for bullpen arms that weren't warming up. He was one of the dumbest coaches in any sport.

You can dislike renteria all you want, but its irrational and you are putting far too much on a baseball manager whose impact is negligible at best.

A baseball player has never said, I would of made it but my manager was trash.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Juschill said:

Not very well for the White Sox.  They fired him before his Hall of Fame resume got going.

 

Wait, so larussa wasnt an intelligent hire because he achieved more elsewhere? You're all over the place.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I know exactly what he does in the clubhouse. He has a unified group that rallies behind him and plays their asses off. 

A latin Terry Bevington might be dumber than saying he's not a serious baseball man. Bevington was handed a job he didnt earn or deserve. Renteria worked his way up and earned his shot. Bevington signaled for bullpen arms that weren't warming up. He was one of the dumbest coaches in any sport.

You can dislike renteria all you want, but its irrational and you are putting far too much on a baseball manager whose impact is negligible at best.

A baseball player has never said, I would of made it but my manager was trash.

That’s kind of what happened with Semien...without the help of Ron Washington, he could have ended up in Japan.

[FloydBannister1983]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Wait, so larussa wasnt an intelligent hire because he achieved more elsewhere? You're all over the place.

Who said it wasn’t an intelligent hire?  I said it didn’t work out well for the Sox.   It’s one of the few intelligent hires in their history.  And they kept the guy that fired him around the organization for the next 30+ years.

 

[poppysox]

8 minutes ago, Juschill said:

Not very well for the White Sox.  They fired him before his Hall of Fame resume got going.

 

Just an observation...when we got rid of Larussa I was delighted.  I hated his slow micro managing ways.  Apparently he got better with time.  

[caulfield12]

We were successful in pushing LaRussa, Leyland and Francona out of the organization.

Three for the Hall...not in Sox uniforms.

Four, counting Dave Dombrowski as an exec.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s kind of what happened with Semien...without the help of Ron Washington, he could have ended up in Japan.

Man, this type of commentary is just garbage. Semien worked his ass off and was given instruction by an instructor that he took too. He was the one who put in the work and improved his game. He was never "going to Japan." His defense has seen an uptick by one metric the past two years (he graded behind Timmy in the defensive runs metrics released yesterday). The main driving force behind his WAR was his bat last year. He had graded out as a below average SS defensively and became a + one defensively. To insinuate that he wouldn't have improved sans Washington goes against the work ethic he has displayed. Washington is a very good educator of infield fundamentals, but he isn't the one who defined Semien's career or turnaround - Marcus is the one who did that.