ptatc Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Agree. We know they stole signs at home so why did they have slightly better batting stats that year on the road? I think it's because of what I said earlier. While sign stealing does give some advantage, it's really not that big of an advantage. Just knowing fastball or off speed doesnt tell you location or which off speed pitch to gauge the break. There are many players who prefer not to know because it messes with their thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, ptatc said: I think it's because of what I said earlier. While sign stealing does give some advantage, it's really not that big of an advantage. Just knowing fastball or off speed doesnt tell you location or which off speed pitch to gauge the break. There are many players who prefer not to know because it messes with their thought process. This is wrong imo. Look at OPS by count - knowing a fastball is coming on 3-0 3-1 is a huge advantage for a batter. It's not a bigger advantage than steroids - that's absurd - but it's certainly a big advantage to know off speed or fastball. Timing and adjusting your hands and staying back are the toughest elements of hitting imo; although I could never hit a slider so I'm bias. The players who don't like to know are reaction hitters they're entire life and they're typically so gifted it doesnt matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I think it's because of what I said earlier. While sign stealing does give some advantage, it's really not that big of an advantage. Just knowing fastball or off speed doesnt tell you location or which off speed pitch to gauge the break. There are many players who prefer not to know because it messes with their thought process. You could be right, at least to a certain extent. But if sign stealing is not a big advantage, why did the Astros spend so much time doing it? The main point of all of this to me is the intent to cheat. The game loses credibility when the fans doubt the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, NWINFan said: You could be right, at least to a certain extent. But if sign stealing is not a big advantage, why did the Astros spend so much time doing it? The main point of all of this to me is the intent to cheat. The game loses credibility when the fans doubt the results. No doubt on the intent to cheat part. Some of the reason is the mental part. Some players do think it helps and when swinging a bat even the smallest advantage can help. However, looking at your stats, it didn't really seem to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This is wrong imo. Look at OPS by count - knowing a fastball is coming on 3-0 3-1 is a huge advantage for a batter. It's not a bigger advantage than steroids - that's absurd - but it's certainly a big advantage to know off speed or fastball. Timing and adjusting your hands and staying back are the toughest elements of hitting imo; although I could never hit a slider so I'm bias. The players who don't like to know are reaction hitters they're entire life and they're typically so gifted it doesnt matter. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I've never played the game at that level, I just go by my discussions with players during games, of course it was 30 years ago. The stats really don't seem to support the idea either. It would seem to be an advantage and maybe in that one situation you mentioned it is by that is a very small percentage of at bats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, ptatc said: Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I've never played the game at that level, I just go by my discussions with players during games, of course it was 30 years ago. The stats really don't seem to support the idea either. It would seem to be an advantage and maybe in that one situation you mentioned it is by that is a very small percentage of at bats. The problem is that data really doesn't tell us anything, but for frequency; we don't have count knowledge for example - if they are banging on 0-2 or 1-2 and their OPS is 40 points higher than normal, it's still below average production but better than expected. There are a lot of variables that aren't accounted for in that generalist view; even citing raw home vs road splits takes out a lot of elements of competition and etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The problem is that data really doesn't tell us anything, but for frequency; we don't have count knowledge for example - if they are banging on 0-2 or 1-2 and their OPS is 40 points higher than normal, it's still below average production but better than expected. There are a lot of variables that aren't accounted for in that generalist view; even citing raw home vs road splits takes out a lot of elements of competition and etc. Home field should be some advantage in of itself. We know the Astros were passing info. So if the raw home/away splits did not reflect more success at home, the Astros did not get the advantage they were trying to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Conclusion: Fuck Bregmam and Gurriel https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/exkkoz/i_went_through_the_footage_provided_by_uatadams/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28639320 So uh....Pete Rose has a point and I don't like saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28639320 So uh....Pete Rose has a point and I don't like saying that. I still don't think he really has an argument. It is on the wall of every MLB dugout "you gamble on the game, it's a lifetime ban." there has never been any punishment set forth for most other forms of cheating. Everyone in the game knows and has known that gambling is the one big no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/2/2020 at 10:30 AM, Quin said: Conclusion: Fuck Bregmam and Gurriel https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/exkkoz/i_went_through_the_footage_provided_by_uatadams/ Assuming every pitch that had a bang would have ended it an out renders this pretty much meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 6:28 PM, Balta1701 said: Who the hell has this kind of time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said: Who the hell has this kind of time? Pissed off Astros fans. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Hinch starts the apology tour tomorrow night on MLB Tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Way to drop the ball there MLB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 What was the name of the other bat? The RF, former 2 way player (not that I have interest in that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Way to drop the ball there MLB. Who needs a first round pick anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Way to drop the ball there MLB. Yeah they shouldnt be allowed to participate in the international signing period for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 27 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: What was the name of the other bat? The RF, former 2 way player (not that I have interest in that). Oscar Colas. Yeah that's the guy everyone probably is keeping an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 9:57 PM, PantsRowland said: Do you have any legit sources?? Wait, who are you?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 4 hours ago, SoxAce said: Way to drop the ball there MLB. What a crock . Sox didn't need another Cuban anyway did they ? Do 2nd round draft picks get $4M ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Hinch interview was pretty good. Too many things unanswered though. He took accountability for 2017, but I think Verducci could have pressed harder for details. Alex Cora’s name wasn’t mentioned once, which was probably by design. I think he’s really the biggest cheater in the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994 On Sept. 22, 2016, an intern in the Houston Astros organization showed general manager Jeff Luhnow a PowerPoint presentation that featured the latest creation by the team’s high-tech front office: an Excel-based application programmed with an algorithm that could decode the opposing catchers’ signs. It was called “Codebreaker.” This was the beginning of what has turned into one of the biggest scandals in Major League Baseball history. Throughout the 2017 season and for part of 2018, Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers used Codebreaker to illegally steal signs, which were then relayed to batters in real time. Another Astros employee referred to the system as the “dark arts.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 MLB didnt do enough. Manfred has completely failed the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994 Heard that on the radio last night. Manfred is looking worse and worse with each passing day. Just despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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