ptatc Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, SoxAce said: Heard that on the radio last night. Manfred is looking worse and worse with each passing day. Just despicable. I would disagree. He gave them the largest possible fine, the worst punishment ever for the draft and the GM and the manager was fired. This is the worst punishment ever for cheating. He couldn't really go to much further than that without problems with the owners who are his "bosses." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 The whole thing was a joke. MLB investigated the bare minimum and then tried to sweep it under the rug. What they reported was the tip of the iceburg and they wanted no part of doing anymore than that. Every god damn person in that entire organization knew exactly what was going on. Lots of really smart people suddenly playing dumb. They should all be banned from baseball and Crane should have been forced to sell the team. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The whole thing was a joke. MLB investigated the bare minimum and then tried to sweep it under the rug. What they reported was the tip of the iceburg and they wanted no part of doing anymore than that. Every god damn person in that entire organization knew exactly what was going on. Lots of really smart people suddenly playing dumb. They should all be banned from baseball and Crane should have been forced to sell the team. This would never happen because every owner knows their team has done similar things, though not to this extent. The owners arent going to "fire" another owner because they might be next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game." - Jim Crane "I didn't say it didn't impact the game." - Jim Crane 55 seconds later 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 Jim Crane: "I don't think I should be held accountable." LOL; yeah, I run this organization but why the heck should I be accountable for what my team did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Bregman is like THE ORDER OF BLAME ACCORDING TO ME IS... THE ORGANIZATION THE TEAM . . . . . . . . me. But only slightly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On February 7, 2020 at 10:05 AM, Pants Rowland said: Wait, who are you?! I am a man. A simple man. A man with a van. If you too have a van, we could be men with ven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 ....but my joke last month was hilarious wasn't it??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 It’s going to be real interesting to see what the stats look like for Bregman, Correa, Springer, and Altuve. Still good players, but if they have real differences in hard contact rates, walks, strikeouts, xbh, compared to 2018 and 2019, it’s pretty much going to confirm they took cheating to the next level after the trash can stuff in 2017. This season is going to be a helluva thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, flavum said: It’s going to be real interesting to see what the stats look like for Bregman, Correa, Springer, and Altuve. Still good players, but if they have real differences in hard contact rates, walks, strikeouts, xbh, compared to 2018 and 2019, it’s pretty much going to confirm they took cheating to the next level after the trash can stuff in 2017. This season is going to be a helluva thing. It won't 'confirm' anything. People will treat it as hard evidence. But it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Alex Bregman is a pint sized douchebag. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mqr said: It won't 'confirm' anything. People will treat it as hard evidence. But it's not. This isn’t a court of law. If the stats significantly go down for these guys, what else are people going to think? That they just quit cold turkey after 2017? Nobody really thinks that already. Edited February 13, 2020 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, flavum said: This isn’t a court of law. If the stats significantly go down for these guys, what else are people going to think? That they just quit cold turkey after 2017? Nobody really thinks that already. People can think whatever they want, the Astros haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. It's just wrong to assume a dip in numbers is some gotcha moment. It's possible they cheated they're balls off and their numbers go up anyway when the cheating is taken away. A dip in numbers doesn't damn them, just as much as numbers staying flat don't absolve them. Edited February 13, 2020 by mqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 MLB better hope their numbres dont drastically change, its just going to add to the feeling that they swept the buzzers under the rug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, reiks12 said: MLB better hope their numbres dont drastically change, its just going to add to the feeling that they swept the buzzers under the rug. Exactly, and I think that’s what happened. Either Manfred knows for sure that it’s rampant in MLB, or he’s afraid to find out. He wants to keep this nice and tidy with the 2017 Astros, and to a lesser extent, the 2018 Red Sox. Edited February 13, 2020 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 There is a certain ambivalence because all teams have cheated. Drawing a moral line is difficult. You have to enforce violations in every case, real-time or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfly Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I hope pitchers take this into their own hands and start drilling these pricks all next season. Fucking cheaters. First pitch to start the season against the Astros should be a HBP, with many more to come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, flavum said: Exactly, and I think that’s what happened. Either Manfred knows for sure that it’s rampant in MLB, or he’s afraid to find out. He wants to keep this nice and tidy with the 2017 Astros, and to a lesser extent, the 2018 Red Sox. I can't emphasize this enough, but Manfred works for the owners. Manfred had no power to punish the players, and he wasn't going to turn around and invoke all those penalties on the people he represents. His job was to protect them, and he did everything in his power to blame those whom he did not represent (Beltran, Cora and other players and coaches). Manfred's job was not to expose the truth, it was to manage the PR disaster to the best of his abilities while handing down some perceived punishment that he could push out as being "the harshest of it's kind" via his MLB PR reporter mouthpieces. Manfred does not care about cleaning up the game and maintaining a sense of integrity; he cares about the public perception his owners receive from the backlash. This is why no one will even deny the buzzer thing; everyone using the catch phrase "not that I know of" which gives them plausible deniability (claiming they didn't personally due it) while not accusing any of their teammates of wrong doing. The fact that no one will release a hard denial might as well be as good of an indicator that it happened as anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 It infuriates me that Manfred let Crane get off so easy without pushing him to admit this helped his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, mqr said: People can think whatever they want, the Astros haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. It's just wrong to assume a dip in numbers is some gotcha moment. It's possible they cheated they're balls off and their numbers go up anyway when the cheating is taken away. A dip in numbers doesn't damn them, just as much as numbers staying flat don't absolve them. While I agree with your premise, it is really really difficult to ignore the strike out rate declines in their best hitters. The team had significant turnover, so using the raw K numbers between 2016 and 2017 does no good, but looking at the individuals who still remained we saw a lot of unprecedented K-rate declines that haven't been matched by 99% of other players as they improved in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, bmags said: It infuriates me that Manfred let Crane get off so easy without pushing him to admit this helped his team. It didn't help though... even though I never said it didn't help. Let's move on. I shouldn't be held accountable because I didn't actually play the game. Imagine the CEO of Wells Fargo saying he didn't personally register countless unapproved credit cards and accounts while he was in charge, it was the people who worked for him, so why should he be held accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I've mentioned it before, but I wonder how bad it will get this year with HBPs and subsequent brawls when teams play the Astros. Obviously it would feel a little sweet seeing Bregman and company get beamed, but you don't want anybody getting seriously hurt. These guys are going to take a beating this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Brooks Boyer needs to call Keuchel and tell him to stfu. The more he talks, the stupider he sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Brooks Boyer needs to call Keuchel and tell him to stfu. The more he talks, the stupider he sounds. Agreed, although that may just be a job for Hahn. The couple times Keuchel has spoken on the Astros, he’s partially said some ok things, and then he says the wrong thing. He needs to stop saying “that’s what baseball was at the time” even if it’s true. He knew his team was cheating at the time, and he needs to own it, or just move on with his new team and win the right way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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