MLB cheating scandal

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If there won't be any punishment for the players who either were directly involved with or at best looked the other way while their team cheated blatantly en route to a world series win, should other teams fans just be ok with and accepting of those players?

We signed one of the highest profile players on a team that is as of now the biggest MLB scandal in a decade. Do we just shrug our shoulders and admit that we're all ok with what the Astros did now that he's on our team?

Again, what is constantly hounding him about it because he has a bad April era going to do?  Gonna make you feel better?  Ok great.  You are happy because he keeps getting asked about it.   Then he stops doing interviews and it goes away that way.  Either way, no reporter is going to ask him every interview about it just because fans are mad that MLB didn't punish the players.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, mqr said:

He did quite alright last year. Also doubly not sure what a sign stealing scandal has to do with Dallas Keuchal's ERA. 

Trevor Bauer said Houston pitchers increase spin rate by using illegal substances.   So we need to ask about it every day because that will fix it all

[Balta1701]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Again, what is constantly hounding him about it because he has a bad April era going to do?  Gonna make you feel better?  Ok great.  You are happy because he keeps getting asked about it.   Then he stops doing interviews and it goes away that way.  Either way, no reporter is going to ask him every interview about it just because fans are mad that MLB didn't punish the players.

It's not a good answer I'll agree but I'll put it back to you. Tell me that you're ok with what the Astros did enough to say that you have no issues whatsoever with Keuchel, or suggest something different.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

It's not a good answer I'll agree but I'll put it back to you. Tell me that you're ok with what the Astros did enough to say that you have no issues whatsoever with Keuchel, or suggest something different.

Me being ok with it or being against it doesn't really matter.   Honestly what can the MLB do?  Suspend every player that played on the team from 2015 through now?   It's fucked up!  I don't like that Keuchel was a main pitcher on a team that just got busted for cheating, it sucks!    But without direct implication or proof that Keuchel participated in cheating, why would hounding him solve anything?

[Kyyle23]

 

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Well they f*#%ing better “dig in.”

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Me being ok with it or being against it doesn't really matter.   Honestly what can the MLB do?  Suspend every player that played on the team from 2015 through now?   It's fucked up!  I don't like that Keuchel was a main pitcher on a team that just got busted for cheating, it sucks!    But without direct implication or proof that Keuchel participated in cheating, why would hounding him solve anything?

They can't do anything clearly, but you get to decide how you feel about a player and how you're going to treat them. You get to decide if you read papers that are hard on Keuchel and ask tough questions, or ones that let him slide. Hell,  you can decide what to say on his twitter page or on the page of the White Sox when he starts. Or you can just say "I'm ok with these players." I believe I've been known to hold grudges against cheaters.

[Eminor3rd]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If there won't be any punishment for the players who either were directly involved with or at best looked the other way while their team cheated blatantly en route to a world series win, should other teams fans just be ok with and accepting of those players?

We signed one of the highest profile players on a team that is as of now the biggest MLB scandal in a decade. Do we just shrug our shoulders and admit that we're all ok with what the Astros did now that he's on our team?

What would you do if you were in that situation? If you’re Dallas Keuchel, a pitcher who does not directly participate in any way in the sign stealing but is aware that it happens, what would you do?

Are you going to expose your entire team midseason? After the season? Get your co-workers in trouble, some of them fired, destroy your relationship with your employer? All for something that may or may not help, that you know some form of is going on other places too? At the very least you’re guaranteeing your days in Houston are over. Maybe that means a trade you can’t control. Maybe you make long term enemies in the game. Maybe you take your teammates down with you. Maybe you torpedo you’re chance to win . And if you are only aware of it peripherally, as I imagine the pitchers probably only were it may very well have seemed like more of a grey area than we now know that it was.

Im not condoning what was done at all, but I absolutely believe that lots of players weren’t okay with it but didn’t feel comfortable with the consequences of blowing a whistle in a environment where they have to continue to work. When your bosses authorize something, there’s a real cost to opposing it. It’s not really fair to put that burden on the players, who often have families to think about. Unfortunately, that complications means that we can’t reliably identify and this cannot punish the players that were active participants. 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

Dallas Keuchel was a member of a team that cheated. There is no evidence he himself cheated.

He will absolutely be asked about in Spring Training. 

He will give an answer that some people are OK with, and some people probably won't like. 

After that, the story should and will end. 

I don't know why you are trying to make this more complicated, or turn it into something way more than it is. 

However, there is a clear and unambiguous statement from MLB that everyone in and around that locker room was fully aware of this particular cheating scheme, and none of them came forward or reported it until Fiers. 

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Eh, I doubt it. I'm sure teams do scout the signs intently and look for an edge. The real time feedback astros were getting and relaying to batters mid-sequence was what was out of line. And I really doubt "everyone did that" because this clearly stood above the rest.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

What would you do if you were in that situation? If you’re Dallas Keuchel, a pitcher who does not directly participate in any way in the sign stealing but is aware that it happens, what would you do?

Are you going to expose your entire team midseason? After the season? Get your co-workers in trouble, some of them fired, destroy your relationship with your employer? All for something that may or may not help, that you know some form of is going on other places too? At the very least you’re guaranteeing your days in Houston are over. Maybe that means a trade you can’t control. Maybe you make long term enemies in the game. Maybe you take your teammates down with you. Maybe you torpedo you’re chance to win . And if you are only aware of it peripherally, as I imagine the pitchers probably only were it may very well have seemed like more of a grey area than we now know that it was.

Im not condoning what was done at all, but I absolutely believe that lots of players weren’t okay with it but didn’t feel comfortable with the consequences of blowing a whistle in a environment where they have to continue to work. When your bosses authorize something, there’s a real cost to opposing it. It’s not really fair to put that burden on the players, who often have families to think about. Unfortunately, that complications means that we can’t reliably identify and this cannot punish the players that were active participants. 

How did Frank Thomas react to the rampant steroid abuse in baseball? We are literally praising his response to that, correctly, in an other thread right now on this page.

You're going to tell me that the players had no influence at all? The veterans? That if Keuchel had sat down with the manager and said "We can't do this", he couldn't have made something happen? That all these so-called clean players would have just cowered? That if Verlander had gotten there, seen this stuff, and  immediately said "you're not going to taint my chances at a ring", that it doesn't end right then and there? 

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

How did Frank Thomas react to the rampant steroid abuse in baseball? We are literally praising his response to that, correctly, in an other thread right now on this page.

You're going to tell me that the players had no influence at all? The veterans? That if Keuchel had sat down with the manager and said "We can't do this", he couldn't have made something happen? That all these so-called clean players would have just cowered? That if Verlander had gotten there, seen this stuff, and  immediately said "you're not going to taint my chances at a ring", that it doesn't end right then and there? 

I know Frank Thomas didn't go around dropping names, so he's a coward?

Edited January 14, 2020 by mqr

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Eh, I doubt it. I'm sure teams do scout the signs intently and look for an edge. The real time feedback astros were getting and relaying to batters mid-sequence was what was out of line. And I really doubt "everyone did that" because this clearly stood above the rest.

It does seem in hindsight like there were an unusual amount of accusations and denials specifically focused on the Astros over the past couple seasons, doesn't it? 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

I know Frank Thomas didn't go around dropping names

So go into the locker room with scissors and cut up everyone's jerseys and privately say you'll do it again until this stops and then take your suspension. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

So again, I'm like the sixth person to ask you this without you answering.......WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO DO ABOUT IT? 

Not watch his starts? After every start, he needs to be asked about his time in Houston? Boycott the 2020 season? What do you want here? 

Don't answer it with another question. What do you want. 

I'd like him to be booed until he apologies publicly for looking the other way (literally an admission by him that he did so), and I'd like him to be specifically questioned about it every time there's an opportunity until he does so.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'd like him to be booed until he apologies publicly for looking the other way (literally an admission by him that he did so), and I'd like him to be specifically questioned about it every time there's an opportunity until he does so.

That'll show him.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

That'll show him.

I can't get a suspension but I can ask for public contrition.

[Kyyle23]

Public hanging at the old comiskey home plate, at noon

[Balta1701]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Public hanging at the old comiskey home plate, at noon

Promotional giveaway of a garbage can and a mallet to bang it with as a noisemaker during his first start. Get the crowd geared up for his wins!

[reiks12]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'd like him to be booed until he apologies publicly for looking the other way (literally an admission by him that he did so), and I'd like him to be specifically questioned about it every time there's an opportunity until he does so.

Where is his admission to looking away? 

How do we know players weren't outspoken behind closed doors? What else do you expect them to do? Go to the media? 

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

Eh, I doubt it. I'm sure teams do scout the signs intently and look for an edge. The real time feedback astros were getting and relaying to batters mid-sequence was what was out of line. And I really doubt "everyone did that" because this clearly stood above the rest.

Cody Decker is on the score right now and said there is at least 5 teams for sure that he knows about right now.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

Where is his admission to looking away? 

How do we know players weren't outspoken behind closed doors? What else do you expect them to do? Go to the media? 

Apparently only a Mike Fiers quality human being does that, but for a veteran leader and cy young award winner on a billion dollar franchise, here's some possibles. 

1. Complain to your manager.
2. Make a public statement in front of your teammates.
3. Organize several of your teammmates to support you as a leader on your roster and tell management that it stops.
4. Complain to your general manager once the manager does nothing. 
5. Go over the general manager's head to ownership. Make it so that Crane's "I knew nothing" statement yesterday no longer holds up.
6. Complain to your union representatives. 
7. Take matters into your own hands. If the wimp of a manager won't do actual damage to the screen do it yourself. 

They're the ones tainting you. Are you a leader or aren't you?

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Cody Decker is on the score right now and said there is at least 5 teams for sure that he knows about right now.

The Sox started giving hitters pitchers arsenals like two years ago, I think we’re safe. 

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Apparently only a Mike Fiers quality human being does that, but for a veteran leader and cy young award winner on a billion dollar franchise, here's some possibles. 

1. Complain to your manager.
2. Make a public statement in front of your teammates.
3. Organize several of your teammmates to support you as a leader on your roster and tell management that it stops.
4. Complain to your general manager once the manager does nothing. 
5. Go over the general manager's head to ownership. Make it so that Crane's "I knew nothing" statement yesterday no longer holds up.
6. Complain to your union representatives. 
7. Take matters into your own hands. If the wimp of a manager won't do actual damage to the screen do it yourself. 

They're the ones tainting you. Are you a leader or aren't you?

Fiers waited until he left the team before he said anything 

[mqr]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Apparently only a Mike Fiers quality human being does that, but for a veteran leader and cy young award winner on a billion dollar franchise, here's some possibles. 

1. Complain to your manager.
2. Make a public statement in front of your teammates.
3. Organize several of your teammmates to support you as a leader on your roster and tell management that it stops.
4. Complain to your general manager once the manager does nothing. 
5. Go over the general manager's head to ownership. Make it so that Crane's "I knew nothing" statement yesterday no longer holds up.
6. Complain to your union representatives. 
7. Take matters into your own hands. If the wimp of a manager won't do actual damage to the screen do it yourself. 

They're the ones tainting you. Are you a leader or aren't you?

Mike Fiers didn’t say shit while he was there, and only said shit when it started affecting his bottom line.