Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Spicygar said: Does what they did, getting signs, make them truly better? If the tigers got every pitch tipped next season they would still be one of the worst teams in the league. Maybe it helped maybe it didn't. Farquhar realized it and changed it up. We need to stop acting like thhis is some huge deal because it's baseball or football or whatever. This gets more people talking about action than something that could actually effect your life. It's a game. As much as we heard about how Darvish and others were "Tipping pitches" during that playoffs...yeah. I don't believe he was "tipping pitches", I believe they had a camera on the signs and that spotted them 5 runs in game 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champagne030 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Balta1701 said: It sure seems like in 2017 teams didn't really realize the Astros were doing this, Farquhar seems to have legitimately been the first to recognize it and the fact that he figured it out made the astros panic that they had been caught so they started destroying the evidence. I know there's multiple of pages of posts after this, but I took a quick look at the splits from 2017 and the Astros were a 'decent' amount worse, offensively, at home than on the road in the 2nd half of 2017. Maybe they had guys injured in that 2nd half, but if that's when they really kicked their cheating into gear they weren't very good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, champagne030 said: I know there's multiple of pages of posts after this, but I took a quick look at the splits from 2017 and the Astros were a 'decent' amount worse, offensively, at home than on the road in the 2nd half of 2017. Maybe they had guys injured in that 2nd half, but if that's when they really kicked their cheating into gear they weren't very good at it. The other thing that happened at home in August of 2017 was Harvey, so the whole area around the ballpark was a mess at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Spicygar said: Does what they did, getting signs, make them truly better? If the tigers got every pitch tipped next season they would still be one of the worst teams in the league. Maybe it helped maybe it didn't. Farquhar realized it and changed it up. We need to stop acting like thhis is some huge deal because it's baseball or football or whatever. This gets more people talking about action than something that could actually effect your life. It's a game. Hi, you are on a baseball message board. 1 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Even the players around the league are pissed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Kevan Smith confirms what Farq has said. They stopped using signals, went verbal and Gattis struck out. Says Angels and Sox did not use tech but there may be another team that was doing the same. He is with the Rays now and has questions for Charlie Morton who was a stro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, pcq said: Kevan Smith confirms what Farq has said. They stopped using signals, went verbal and Gattis struck out. Says Angels and Sox did not use tech but there may be another team that was doing the same. He is with the Rays now and has questions for Charlie Morton who was a stro. https://triblive.com/sports/ex-white-sox-catcher-kevan-smith-on-astros-sign-stealing-we-knew-they-had-something/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, pcq said: Kevan Smith confirms what Farq has said. They stopped using signals, went verbal and Gattis struck out. Says Angels and Sox did not use tech but there may be another team that was doing the same. He is with the Rays now and has questions for Charlie Morton who was a stro. LoDuca also confirmed on RLR that Buehrle was right after all these years and the Rangers were flashing lights in the outfield to relay stolen signs to their hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, fathom said: LoDuca also confirmed on RLR that Buehrle was right after all these years and the Rangers were flashing lights in the outfield to relay stolen signs to their hitters. As I said before, the reason other teams didn't bring it up is that many of them were doing it too. It's not uncommon. Others just didn't create such an elaborate scheme and weren't as blatant about it with a monitor for every player to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 hours ago, ptatc said: I wouldn't say huge. They couldn't rely the location only off speed or fastball. On MLB the Show video game it is much easier to hit a fastball or off speed pitch if you know it is coming. It is like night and day. I can only imagine the same applies to real life batting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Spicygar said: Does what they did, getting signs, make them truly better? If the tigers got every pitch tipped next season they would still be one of the worst teams in the league. Maybe it helped maybe it didn't. Farquhar realized it and changed it up. We need to stop acting like thhis is some huge deal because it's baseball or football or whatever. This gets more people talking about action than something that could actually effect your life. It's a game. Well if you are talented, it could put you over the top against a playoff opponent. Obviously, if you suck, it won't help as much. The irony is that the Astros lost all 4 home games in the world series this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I can‘t believe so many people(not just here but on twitter and reddit) bring up some stats to show that the cheating wasn‘t all that effective. That‘s not the fucking point. It‘s about the elaborate scheme they came up with, not its effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 Let's all reminisce about this story: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2018/04/21/justin-verlander-tim-anderson-unwritten-rules/539194002/ Where Justin Verlander - knowingly cheating and breaking actual rules - decided to play the "unwritten rules" fun police against Tim Anderson. It's amazing; McCann and Verlander care so much about the unwritten rules, but don't give a fuck about the actual rules. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 At the very least, MLB should have a decisive reaction to all of this. The industry should not want fans debating about cheating or wondering if players' performances are legitimate. The talk should be about division races and playoff possibilities not this nonsense. Franchises have had stadiums built with pubic funds. They can make money with a losing team. They are exempt from anti-trust laws. The least they can do is have an operation that is at least half-way honest. So many connected with Baseball are obscenely rich. Enough of this crap already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, NWINFan said: At the very least, MLB should have a decisive reaction to all of this. The industry should not want fans debating about cheating or wondering if players' performances are legitimate. The talk should be about division races and playoff possibilities not this nonsense. Franchises have had stadiums built with pubic funds. They can make money with a losing team. They are exempt from anti-trust laws. The least they can do is have an operation that is at least half-way honest. So many connected with Baseball are obscenely rich. Enough of this crap already. Didn't they suspend people as well as fine and remove draft picks from the team? The players were granted immunity from punishment to give testimony against the manager and team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: Didn't they suspend people as well as fine and remove draft picks from the team? The players were granted immunity from punishment to give testimony against the manager and team. No, that is not why the players were granted immunity. With fellow union members outraged, tony Clark is in one hell of a tough spot. Players want players held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: No, that is not why the players were granted immunity. With fellow union members outraged, tony Clark is in one hell of a tough spot. Players want players held accountable. I thought thats what the reports said. Why were the players granted immunity then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, ptatc said: I thought thats what the reports said. Why were the players granted immunity then? Because the commissioners office didn't want to go through the appeals process with the Union; there was no exact language within the CBA warranting punishments here, and it would have opened up an entire other bag of worms had they suspended the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Because the commissioners office didn't want to go through the appeals process with the Union; there was no exact language within the CBA warranting punishments here, and it would have opened up an entire other bag of worms had they suspended the players. This still does not explain why they were granted immunity. This is just why they would have a tough time punishing them. I'm sticking with the published reports that they were granted immunity to tell what happened and who knew what as opposed to your version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: This still does not explain why they were granted immunity. This is just why they would have a tough time punishing them. I'm sticking with the published reports that they were granted immunity to tell what happened and who knew what as opposed to your version. Both of these are true. Had there been a rule on the books, agreed to by the players union, that allowed management to suspend the players for this type of cheating, MLB would likely not have offered immunity, at least not to more than a handful of them. Had that rule existed, that whole roster (Keuchel included) would probably be facing some sort of suspension for violating it. But since no rule existed, it was not worth creating a new fight with the players union that would have lasted years and prolonged the investigation indefinitely, so the sensible move was to offer clear immunity to the players to get a full statement from them on this part of the incident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Let's all reminisce about this story: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/astros/2018/04/21/justin-verlander-tim-anderson-unwritten-rules/539194002/ Where Justin Verlander - knowingly cheating and breaking actual rules - decided to play the "unwritten rules" fun police against Tim Anderson. It's amazing; McCann and Verlander care so much about the unwritten rules, but don't give a fuck about the actual rules. Justin Verlander imo is a complete asshat. Hypocrites suck. Often times it's those that protest the loudest that have the most to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Justin Verlander imo is a complete asshat. Hypocrites suck. Often times it's those that protest the loudest that have the most to hide. This is nothing new. Regardless of this incident. Although in the TA I don't disagree with him but that's an old discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, ptatc said: This still does not explain why they were granted immunity. This is just why they would have a tough time punishing them. I'm sticking with the published reports that they were granted immunity to tell what happened and who knew what as opposed to your version. What, it explains exactly why they granted them "fake" immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Justin Verlander imo is a complete asshat. Hypocrites suck. Often times it's those that protest the loudest that have the most to hide. You know Timmy is just loving this right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Both of these are true. Had there been a rule on the books, agreed to by the players union, that allowed management to suspend the players for this type of cheating, MLB would likely not have offered immunity, at least not to more than a handful of them. Had that rule existed, that whole roster (Keuchel included) would probably be facing some sort of suspension for violating it. But since no rule existed, it was not worth creating a new fight with the players union that would have lasted years and prolonged the investigation indefinitely, so the sensible move was to offer clear immunity to the players to get a full statement from them on this part of the incident. And the players still lied, which just shows how stupid this "immunity" stuff was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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