Twins Sign Donaldson

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

1. No I will not agree that a .900 OPS and a .834 OPS are equal, so you're correct we can't agree on that.

2. Well now I'm curious, who got the largest? Who's #3? Have those deals worked out for their teams?

I guess you will have to do your own research on those contracts.

But you can agree Donaldson is one year older than Abreu since that is a fact.

I also find it odd that despite your railings about people duties as human beings in the Sign stealing scandal that you completely ignored the part of my post about  how Abreu stacks up as a model citizen and role model.

As far as the difference in OPS I figured that would be the 1st thing I heard about. OPS+ JD 127 ,Abreu 119 . So to use one stat against your one stat it's not that big of a difference and that fielding and the position they play is much of the difference in WAR numbers , But maybe you can't agree on that either.

Can you agree that since Donaldson is a year older and plays a more physically demanding position that he is more likely to drop off in production before Abreu ? Perhaps not . It is just one year.

If the Abreu contract is viewed as an overpay cannot the same be said of the Donaldson contract ?

Which contract is more likely to hurt the team if both go bad sooner rather than later ?

Frankly I don't like any comparison between the 2 contracts . It is apples and oranges and It might even be apples and watermelons since Abreu has played a roll as player ,role model, recruiter ,member of the community and might even get a statue right next to Minosos in the future.  Donaldson hasn't done squat yet for the Twins.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

 

For you Balta since I am a swell guy. AAV much different because it was 22 years ago but overall money is higher.

[Balta1701]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

For you Balta since I am a swell guy. AAV much different because it was 22 years ago but overall money is higher.

Really, it's been more than 20 years since a 34 year old got this money? Legitimate wow. TY. 

[maloney.adam]

I could’ve posted this article in the Catch-All thread but I thought it was interesting for this topic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/caesars-over-under-win-total-175124985.html

Edited January 15, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I guess you will have to do your own research on those contracts.

But you can agree Donaldson is one year older than Abreu since that is a fact.

I also find it odd that despite your railings about people duties as human beings in the Sign stealing scandal that you completely ignored the part of my post about  how Abreu stacks up as a model citizen and role model.

As far as the difference in OPS I figured that would be the 1st thing I heard about. OPS+ JD 127 ,Abreu 119 . So to use one stat against your one stat it's not that big of a difference and that fielding and the position they play is much of the difference in WAR numbers , But maybe you can't agree on that either.

Can you agree that since Donaldson is a year older and plays a more physically demanding position that he is more likely to drop off in production before Abreu ? Perhaps not . It is just one year.

If the Abreu contract is viewed as an overpay cannot the same be said of the Donaldson contract ?

Which contract is more likely to hurt the team if both go bad sooner rather than later ?

Frankly I don't like any comparison between the 2 contracts . It is apples and oranges and It might even be apples and watermelons since Abreu has played a roll as player ,role model, recruiter ,member of the community and might even get a statue right next to Minosos in the future.  Donaldson hasn't done squat yet for the Twins.

 

Yea Donaldson is a year older and plays a more demanding physical position as of now. That does not mean 127 = 119 or that the difference is small. You replied to a post pointing out that Donaldson put up substantially higher WAR numbers by asserting that their offensive production was similar, when it isn't - per Fangraphs last year 1/2 of the difference between Donaldson's 5 WAR and Abreu's 2 WAR was Donaldson's more effective offense - Donaldson was worth 1.5 extra wins on offense over Abreu, without counting any of the positional adjustments or defense. None of the other points you made were things i replied to, so I don't know why you're repeating them at me, you asserted something that is false in an important way.

[ChiSox59]

31 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

I’m wondering why the Twins haven’t signed Berrios yet. If I were them I would be concerned. He is one of there best pitchers.

They tried last offseason.  He wasn't interested.

[chitownsportsfan]

Kinda weird people are using Donaldson's ability to play 3B well at his age as some sort of knock.  He'll move to 1B/DH in a year or two and his value will take a hit but Jose has no such room.  He's already a very bad 1B and ideally a DH.  

There's a reason Jose is being paid what he is and Donaldson is being paid what he is.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yea Donaldson is a year older and plays a more demanding physical position as of now. That does not mean 127 = 119 or that the difference is small. You replied to a post pointing out that Donaldson put up substantially higher WAR numbers by asserting that their offensive production was similar, when it isn't - per Fangraphs last year 1/2 of the difference between Donaldson's 5 WAR and Abreu's 2 WAR was Donaldson's more effective offense - Donaldson was worth 1.5 extra wins on offense over Abreu, without counting any of the positional adjustments or defense. None of the other points you made were things i replied to, so I don't know why you're repeating them at me, you asserted something that is false in an important way.

The original premise of my post was that the Donaldson contract made the Abreu contract look worse as was stated by Tom Pickle and seconded by some others.  I don't think that's true if you use your heart and soul and yes even if you look at the contracts . I don't think it makes the Abreu contract look bad at all.

Arguing over the perceived difference in offensive contributions means little to the original premise. Yes Donaldson had a better offensive year. I can admit that but I don't think it was significant and even if you or others think it is significant do you think the Donaldson contract makes the Abreu contract look worse than it originally appeared ? I don't.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Kinda weird people are using Donaldson's ability to play 3B well at his age as some sort of knock.  He'll move to 1B/DH in a year or two and his value will take a hit but Jose has no such room.  He's already a very bad 1B and ideally a DH.  

There's a reason Jose is being paid what he is and Donaldson is being paid what he is.

 

Exactly I am not begrudging the Donaldson contract at all and his worth. I just don't think anyone can say it makes the Abreu contract look worse that we already thought it was. Only time will tell  not our opinions .

Edited January 15, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

 

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The original premise of my post was that the Donaldson contract made the Abreu contract look worse as was stated by Tom Pickle and seconded by some others.  I don't think that's true if you use your heart and soul and yes even if you look at the contracts . I don't think it makes the Abreu contract look bad at all.

Arguing over the perceived difference in offensive contributions means little to the original premise. Yes Donaldson had a better offensive year. I can admit that but I don't think it was significant and even if you or others think it is significant do you think the Donaldson contract makes the Abreu contract look worse than it originally appeared ? I don't.

I would agree with this statement that I have no reason to believe this makes Abreu's contract look worse, how's that? I'm still going to point out that their offense is pretty dramatically different. Donaldson with Abreu's offense is a 3.5 win player rather than a 5 win player.

[TomPickle]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The original premise of my post was that the Donaldson contract made the Abreu contract look worse as was stated by Tom Pickle and seconded by some others.  I don't think that's true if you use your heart and soul and yes even if you look at the contracts . I don't think it makes the Abreu contract look bad at all.

Arguing over the perceived difference in offensive contributions means little to the original premise. Yes Donaldson had a better offensive year. I can admit that but I don't think it was significant and even if you or others think it is significant do you think the Donaldson contract makes the Abreu contract look worse than it originally appeared ? I don't.

It was just a throwaway comment I made because I was annoyed that the Twins signed Donaldson. Though I would much rather have Donaldson than Abreu and $4.3 million, which is the difference in AAV over the first three years of the deal. I could see how the deals offset somewhat due to the one extra year of Donaldson and that he is also a year older than Abreu. I think the Abreu deal was bad and this deal is justified, but yeah, it doesn't really make that much sense to compare the two out of the blue like I did.

Donaldson was as much better offensively over Abreu as Abreu was over Teoscar Hernandez. It is a significant difference and even if Donaldson is forced to DH he's going to be a more valuable DH than Abreu will be after Encarnacion is gone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I would agree with this statement that I have no reason to believe this makes Abreu's contract look worse, how's that? I'm still going to point out that their offense is pretty dramatically different. Donaldson with Abreu's offense is a 3.5 win player rather than a 5 win player.

 

I like a happy medium so thanks. I do however think wRC+ is better than WAR for offensive contributions . Donaldson's was 132 and Abreu 117 . If that difference is worth 1.5 fWAR then maybe the offensive difference is greater than I think or I just shouldn't argue using advanced stats.

[tray]

Sano talks a big game but I have doubts about his defensive abilities at first base. Dude is a tank with little flexibility to stretch for throws in the dirt or back hand balls in the hole.

I am curious about Garver's power surge  (31 HR) after only hitting 58 total in the preceding 8 years in the minors and majors. He really made a huge difference for the twins last season.

 

 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

38 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

It was just a throwaway comment I made because I was annoyed that the Twins signed Donaldson. Though I would much rather have Donaldson than Abreu and $4.3 million, which is the difference in AAV over the first three years of the deal. I could see how the deals offset somewhat due to the one extra year of Donaldson and that he is also a year older than Abreu. I think the Abreu deal was bad and this deal is justified, but yeah, it doesn't really make that much sense to compare the two out of the blue like I did.

Donaldson was as much better offensively over Abreu as Abreu was over Teoscar Hernandez. It is a significant difference and even if Donaldson is forced to DH he's going to be a more valuable DH than Abreu will be after Encarnacion is gone.

Is the Teoscar Hernandez comment another throwaway or should I take it seriously ? Using wRC+ indicates Donaldson was 32% above league average and Abreu was 17% above league average OFFENSIVELY which are the stats myself and Balta have been discussing since we agree that Donaldson holds much more value defensively . Teoscar Hernandez had a wRC+ of 93 or 7% below league average.

Seeing as how you and I have no idea how either will do in the future due to injury or performance , telling me who is going to be more valuable as a DH in the future has no significance at all.

[TomPickle]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Is the Teoscar Hernandez comment another throwaway or should I take it seriously ? Using wRC+ indicates Donaldson was 32% above league average and Abreu was 17% above league average OFFENSIVELY which are the stats myself and Balta have been discussing since we agree that Donaldson holds much more value defensively . Teoscar Hernandez had a wRC+ of 93 or 7% below league average.

Seeing as how you and I have no idea how either will do in the future due to injury or performance , telling me who is going to be more valuable as a DH in the future has no significance at all.

Teoscar Hernandez had a 102 wRC+ in 2019 in MLB or 15 points lower than Abreu. Abreu's wRC+ was 15 points lower than Donaldson.

We should both probably quit posting on a White Sox message board during the off season if we aren't allowed to make projections based on past performance.

[caulfield12]

http://www.startribune.com/twins-pass-red-sox-in-appeal-with-josh-donaldson-s-addition-and-alex-cora-s-subtraction/567020282/?ref=nl&om_rid=48311239113&om_mid=619812297

 

[WilliamTell]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:00 PM, tray said:

Sano talks a big game but I have doubts about his defensive abilities at first base. Dude is a tank with little flexibility to stretch for throws in the dirt or back hand balls in the hole.

I am curious about Garver's power surge  (31 HR) after only hitting 58 total in the preceding 8 years in the minors and majors. He really made a huge difference for the twins last season.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I agree with this, I'm also wondering if Kepler maintains his power. 

[GradMc]

On 1/14/2020 at 7:28 PM, wegner said:

Get your whistle ready Darryl....screw Donaldson

Yuck.

To be bothered with him for 19 games?