COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Re. mask use and the controversy ... I wear my mask everywhere and haven't done anything fun since March 12 when everything shut down. I abide by all rules. Thankfully I haven't got COVID yet. I'm one of those Americans who hate wearing my mask (masks, since I own about 20) but shut up and wear it anyway.

I do, however, have a quick theory on the mask thing and why many of my fellow angry Kansans won't wear them.

Remember how upset I was at the Kansas governor for being so bossy and not even listening to barbers, etc? Just a very defiant attitude in which she appeared high and mighty telling us minions what to do during the pandemic with NO discussion ever?  

Well ... I think there are a lot of people who do not get out of the house and take part in the massive protests attended by thousands nightly (and hundreds who leave their homes to live in autonymous zones), who pay their taxes a month ahead of time every year, do not ever rebel.

These "model citizens" I feel just drew the line at the bossiness of government officials regarding masks. This is one thing they finally could stomach no more, and have freaked out.

There are bossy government officials and celebs and peeps of all kinds on social media and TV yelling "wear the damn mask." Ever hear of the saying "kindness kills?" This was one issue there was anger and the mask-haters fought back and are still fighting back.

I think my method would have worked ... a very kind campaign saying, "Out of respect for your neighbors and your fellow Americans, think about it long and hard and please wear a mask. We're all in this together. Let's beat COVID."

I know a lot of you are just going to respond that I'm soft and a baby and I'm wrong because people need to be forcibly told things during a crisis ... I stand by my stance that kindness kills and in this one situation people have had enough (after locking themselves up 2-plus months, doing nothing fun, getting laid off work while at the same time watching THOUSANDS attend protests on TV in which "some people not most" wear masks.

I think message boards are to examine all views and while what I've written may anger most of you, I think you might consider a good portion of Americans do indeed feel this way regarding masks and explains a bit their attitude of, "nobody tells me what to do in a free country!"

Here's a feel good story during this time of so much anger and negativity in America. ...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/assisted-living-pen-pals-north-carolina-trnd/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2020-07-04T06%3A16%3A06&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

The protests over George Floyd started at least 4-6 weeks after the initial assault weapon armed Michigan protests at the capitol.

 

Attendees clustered together in stadium seating in front of a patriotic-themed stage for hours before Trump arrived, and attendees at the top of the amphitheater sat in rows of folding chairs that were tied together with zip ties -- preventing any social distancing. The President mentioned the virus just once, at the very top of his remarks, thanking those working to fight it.

A public safety official involved with the event told CNN the zip ties were part of fire code. In case of an emergency, like a fire or a storm or anything that would cause people to quickly move out, the zip ties would ensure that the chairs would not be easily knocked over or fly into egress paths -- moving a full row of chairs, rather than one or two. 

Information about the event online said there could be health screening for ticketed guests in some areas, though attendees seated in the zip-tied chairs told CNN they had not undergone any such screening.
 

www.cnn.com

Edited July 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[NWINFan]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

 

I think my method would have worked ... a very kind campaign saying, "Out of respect for your neighbors and your fellow Americans, think about it long and hard and please wear a mask. We're all in this together. Let's beat COVID."

I

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01/us/assisted-living-pen-pals-north-carolina-trnd/index.html?utm_source=twCNN&utm_content=2020-07-04T06%3A16%3A06&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

This was the method from the start and people got their backs up. My point is wearing a mask is nowhere near as bad as someone reading your e-mails and listening to phone conversations without cause. There should be no controversy here. This is just plain stupid.

[Two-Gun Pete]

10 hours ago, greg775 said:

Remember how upset I was at the Kansas governor for being so bossy and not even listening to barbers, etc? Just a very defiant attitude in which she appeared high and mighty telling us minions what to do during the pandemic with NO discussion ever?  

 

These "model citizens" I feel just drew the line at the bossiness of government officials regarding masks.

There are bossy government officials and celebs and peeps of all kinds on social media and TV yelling "wear the damn mask." 

I know a lot of you are just going to respond that I'm soft and a baby and I'm wrong because people need to be forcibly told things during a crisis ...

Yeah, a lot of Americans are weak and trivial. You hear the childish and weak "You're not the boss of me" complaints over and over. Other, smarter nations listen to experts and put the masks on, and they've beaten back the virus. Their reward? They get their sports and their restaurants and other things people like back sooner.

 

And then there's this whole politicization of science, where some mouthbreathing monkey morons from the right think that rhetoric can defeat a virus, or that global warming is a fukcing hoax.

 

In sum? We have a nation with lot of mentally weak freedom freeloaders who never served their nation, being led by an imbecile who is weak and childish. As a veteran, I think we really need a fvkcing draft.

 

This nation's response to COVID would be as if:

1. You took George Steinbrenner's budget for an MLB team, then

2.Hired Terry Bevington and Robin Ventura to manage and coach the team, then

3. Stupidly wonder why that team only wins 68 games.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[ron883]

46 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, a lot of Americans are weak and trivial. You hear the childish and weak "You're not the boss of me" complaints over and over. Other, smarter nations listen to experts and put the masks on, and they've beaten back the virus. Their reward? They get their sports and their restaurants and other things people like back sooner.

 

And then there's this whole politicization of science, where some mouthbreathing monkey morons from the right think that rhetoric can defeat a virus, or that global warming is a fukcing hoax.

 

In sum? We have a nation with lot of mentally weak freedom freeloaders who never served their nation, being led by an imbecile who is weak and childish. As a veteran, I think we really need a fvkcing draft.

 

This nation's response to COVID would be as if:

1. You took George Steinbrenner's budget for an MLB team, then

2.Hired Terry Bevington and Robin Ventura to manage and coach the team, then

3. Stupidly wonder why that team only wins 68 games.

??

[caulfield12]

Respect Science, Respect Nature, Respect People

[Jerksticks]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Respect Science, Respect Nature, Respect People

Amen.

To me, the BIGGEST part of respecting science is respecting the process of science.  

Especially in times of desperation, I understand that we all want to know what’s going on, what the science says.  But it’s in times of desperation that it’s critical to not use data to jump to conclusions and call that “the science”.

Data is a piece of information.  It is nothing more.   That chart a person links to isn’t “the science”, it’s just some data on a chart that may suggest something.

We all need to be more careful about conclusions, because there aren’t many to be drawn yet except that really really old people are getting slaughtered and some young people are getting hurt too.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

40 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Amen.

To me, the BIGGEST part of respecting science is respecting the process of science.  

Especially in times of desperation, I understand that we all want to know what’s going on, what the science says.  But it’s in times of desperation that it’s critical to not use data to jump to conclusions and call that “the science”.

Data is a piece of information.  It is nothing more.   That chart a person links to isn’t “the science”, it’s just some data on a chart that may suggest something.

We all need to be more careful about conclusions, because there aren’t many to be drawn yet except that really really old people are getting slaughtered and some young people are getting hurt too.

 

Man this is rich coming from you; soxtalks king of disinformation pertaining to covid.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Amen.

To me, the BIGGEST part of respecting science is respecting the process of science.  

Especially in times of desperation, I understand that we all want to know what’s going on, what the science says.  But it’s in times of desperation that it’s critical to not use data to jump to conclusions and call that “the science”.

Data is a piece of information.  It is nothing more.   That chart a person links to isn’t “the science”, it’s just some data on a chart that may suggest something.

We all need to be more careful about conclusions, because there aren’t many to be drawn yet except that really really old people are getting slaughtered and some young people are getting hurt too.

 

By this argument, why maintain statistics or data at all, if everything is subject to manipulation and misinterpretation?

Well, throughout the illness, this patient has had the benefit of excellent medical care. This country is home to some of the most creative minds, finest doctors and most experienced public health officials the world over. And they, along with equally talented international researchers, jumped into action, trying to decipher the genetic make-up of the virus, learning how it spreads and how to mitigate that spread, discovering all the ways the disease manifests, figuring out how to treat symptoms and desperately trying to develop a vaccine that will prevent new cases of infection in the future.

But after a few short weeks of following doctors' orders, our patient -- our country -- has chosen to turn its back on the advice of these health experts. It didn't like what the doctors were saying and it stopped taking the prescribed medicines because they were unpalatable. 

Some of the prescriptions, like social distancing and curtailing our daily activities, tasted bad and were hard to swallow. Others, like wearing a face mask, created a bit of physical discomfort and a lot of political friction. And the most aggressive medicine of all, the stay-at-home orders, triggered never-before-seen mass layoffs across many sectors of the economy and the fallout just rippled outward from there. In other words, very real pain. 

But difficult as it was to put the patient in a medically induced coma with the stay-at-home orders in order to get the infection under control, it appeared to have worked.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta cnn.com

Edited July 4, 2020 by caulfield12

[Soxbadger]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I agree. I have a hard time changing my mind about things as you all know and I think "respect people" was NOT the early battle cry of the governors/mayors. At least in Kansas, they were so stern and bossy and domineering in their refusal to discuss proper response to COVID. They merely screamed at us in Kansas what do do, hence people got upset and said no way they'd wear masks.

For what it's worse I have noticed way more masks since the still bossy governor made masks mandatory in Kansas. Businesses are obeying the mandate and telling the customers to get the bleep out of the store/restaurant if they won't put on the mask. That's caused a lot more Karen videos on social media.

The reason they were bossy is because the people couldn't act reasonably.

Sorry your feelings were hurt but this is a cataclysm and a lot of it was avoidable.

I guess it was too much to ask Americans to put on their big boy pants and get through this.

No excuses for their irresponsibility. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Soxbadger

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I agree. I have a hard time changing my mind about things as you all know and I think "respect people" was NOT the early battle cry of the governors/mayors. At least in Kansas, they were so stern and bossy and domineering in their refusal to discuss proper response to COVID. They merely screamed at us in Kansas what do do, hence people got upset and said no way they'd wear masks.

For what it's worse I have noticed way more masks since the still bossy governor made masks mandatory in Kansas. Businesses are obeying the mandate and telling the customers to get the bleep out of the store/restaurant if they won't put on the mask. That's caused a lot more Karen videos on social media.

The mayors are at least in some places like Savannah giving the police masks to distribute so the only fine they face is refusing to put even a free one on.   In China, automatic fine or even jail.   They don’t bother being bossy, you either do or don’t.

And those same tough/macho male governors in AZ, TX, Georgia and Florida now have to be twice as “bossy” to get anyone to pay attention the second time around.   How do you think that will go over?

This isn’t like seat belts, where the only life you rusk is your own.  It’s more like intentionally driving drunk and not expecting to face any consequences, because, freedom.  Or smoking a cigarette and blowing it in someone’s face.

[Soxbadger]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

I agree. I have a hard time changing my mind about things as you all know and I think "respect people" was NOT the early battle cry of the governors/mayors. At least in Kansas, they were so stern and bossy and domineering in their refusal to discuss proper response to COVID. They merely screamed at us in Kansas what do do, hence people got upset and said no way they'd wear masks.

For what it's worse I have noticed way more masks since the still bossy governor made masks mandatory in Kansas. Businesses are obeying the mandate and telling the customers to get the bleep out of the store/restaurant if they won't put on the mask. That's caused a lot more Karen videos on social media.

Just watched fireworks in a car with my kids because adults cant be responsible because of the "bossy govt."

Maybe when they are older they'll purposefully fail a test because the teacher was bossy about studying and doing their homework.

What a damn snowflake society weve become when we self sabotage because our poor feelings were hurt when someone was trying to save people from themselves.

Happy 4th of July to every self entered bastard who couldn't make the smallest sacrifice asked of any generation in US history.

 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Just watched fireworks in a car with my kids because adults cant be responsible because of the "bossy govt."

Maybe when they are older they'll purposefully fail a test because the teacher was bossy about studying and doing their homework.

What a damn snowflake society weve become when we self sabotage because our poor feelings were hurt when someone was trying to save people from themselves.

Happy 4th of July to every self entered bastard who couldn't make the smallest sacrifice asked of any generation in US history.

 

“Make no mistake: this left-wing cultural revolution is designed to overthrow the American Revolution.  In so doing, they would destroy the very civilization that rescued billions from poverty, disease, violence, and hunger, and that lifted humanity to new heights of achievement, discovery, and progress.”

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/04/politics/trump-july-fourth-remarks/index.html

Trump claimed without evidence during his Saturday remarks that 99% of coronavirus cases "are totally harmless."

"Now we have tested almost 40 million people. By so doing, we show cases — 99% of which are totally harmless — results that no other country can show because no other country has testing that we have. Not in terms of the numbers, or in terms of the quality," he said, once again also falsely claiming that rising cases are caused by increased testing.

There have been more than 2.8 million cases of coronavirus in the United States and at least 129,000 people in the United States have died, according to Johns Hopkins University's latest tally. Some people who become ill have only mild symptoms, and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 35% of cases are asymptomatic, but even people with mild or no symptoms can spread the virus to others.

While the World Health Organization has said the global fatality rate is likely less than 1%, the WHO also said about 20% of all people who are diagnosed with coronavirus are sick enough to need oxygen or hospital care.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Greg must be self employed. No way he could work for a boss trying to tell him what to do.

[caulfield12]

27 minutes ago, Tony said:

The odd thing is...you keep talking about governors. You aren’t mentioning our Commander in Chief, who while “leaving it up the states” has almost undoubtably the most loyal base of any US President. He made is a point to squash the notion of required mask wearing, and repeatedly went against the judgment of the CDC, WHO and basically any other governing or scientific body that said wearing a mask will help cease the spread of transmission. He also has his lap dogs, which you have cited previously, spread his lies to an incredibly large audience every night on Fox. 
 

Lightfoot came down very hard and forceful on this city, who is made up of a mostly liberal base. Based on the tracking numbers from the last month, I’d say Chicago has done a pretty good job in slowing the spread. Was it because our Mayor was “too harsh” or did this liberal community side with science, rather than messaging coming out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? And I’ll actually agree with you somewhat Greg. If the President came out early and said “Guys, wear a mask. I know it stinks, I don’t want to wear one, but this is the greatest country in the world and we want to keep it that way, just wear the mask.” He would have done WONDERS for the spread of this thing. That’s all he had to say, and his followers would have gone along. But you have mixed messaging coming from states and federal branches because it became about picking sides of the aisle, like always. 

Trying to look at this from a 2008-2016 perspective, I sincerely doubt Obama “being nicer” would have led to complete success.  It certainly didn’t in terms of olive branches and numerous attempts at compromising with the opposing party in 2009-10.

I do think the overall result, in terms of mask-wearing and social-distancing compliance, would have been better....whether it would have been a 25%, 33%, 50% improvement in terms of cases and deaths, nobody really knows.

But I’m sure Dr. Fauci would have been allowed to speak more freely, and the CDC wouldn’t have been handicapped with such a poorly-equipped leadership group.  Everyone in the administration would have been modeling the wearing of masks, and the Federal and state efforts wouldn’t have been at cross-purposes, negotiating against each other and even seizing shipments for “their stockpile.”

For the last 2-3 weeks, we’ve been putting the preservation of controversial Federal statues over the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.  None of the Founding Fathers would possibly have agreed with, neither Jefferson nor Hamilton nor Madison.

[Dick Allen]

If the federal government handled this about as well as they could like Jerksticks seems to imply, why are not other countries having these spikes? Why are the states with the biggest outbreaks the ones that broke with the scientists and sided with Trump? Probably just a huge coincidence., and bad luck. Why are cases exploding in TX, AZ and Fl, three of the hottest states, when the warmer weather would make it just go away?  Trump is holding rallies and parties, NOW, with no social distancing, and even though he claims 99% of the infections are harmless, to get anywhere near him, guess what, you need a negative test. More BS from perhaps the most documented liar who has ever lived.

[turnin' two]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

The odd thing is...you keep talking about governors. You aren’t mentioning our Commander in Chief, who while “leaving it up the states” has almost undoubtably the most loyal base of any US President. He made is a point to squash the notion of required mask wearing, and repeatedly went against the judgment of the CDC, WHO and basically any other governing or scientific body that said wearing a mask will help cease the spread of transmission. He also has his lap dogs, which you have cited previously, spread his lies to an incredibly large audience every night on Fox. 
 

Lightfoot came down very hard and forceful on this city, who is made up of a mostly liberal base. Based on the tracking numbers from the last month, I’d say Chicago has done a pretty good job in slowing the spread. Was it because our Mayor was “too harsh” or did this liberal community side with science, rather than messaging coming out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? And I’ll actually agree with you somewhat Greg. If the President came out early and said “Guys, wear a mask. I know it stinks, I don’t want to wear one, but this is the greatest country in the world and we want to keep it that way, just wear the mask.” He would have done WONDERS for the spread of this thing. That’s all he had to say, and his followers would have gone along. But you have mixed messaging coming from states and federal branches because it became about picking sides of the aisle, like always. 

Chicago definitly deserves a blue ribbon.  I mean, there are a whole 5 states with more cases than Illinois.  And we (Illinois) barely have 50K more cases than like the countries of Canada and Argentina. 

And there were barely any videos of people having mass get togethers and huge parties as Chicago was peaking.  Yeah, we love science.  

[Dick Allen]

8 hours ago, Tony said:

Sorry, but this had to be responded to. 
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/the-fix/54-times-trump-downplayed-the-coronavirus/2020/03/05/790f5afb-4dda-48bf-abe1-b7d152d5138c_video.html

That’s without mentioning Trump saying he would like testing to slow down because it reveals more positive results, the White House walking it back by saying “Oh he was just joking” then Trump saying “I don’t joke about things about that.”

Or when he told the WSJ he believed some are wearing masks not as a preventative measure, but as a way to show disproved for his leadership skills? 

Or in May when he went to a Ford plant to tour the facility, and he was the only one not wearing as a mask, his response was “I didn’t want to give the press the pleasure of seeing me in a mask.” Because why would you want to send that message to American’s, that’s it’s a positive to wear a mask?

I mean, should I keep going? Do you need more? Do I need to keep providing info on how the leader of this country, the man who has 40+ million people asking “How High?” when he says jump, has totally and completely sent the wrong and harmful message to the country since this all started?  

Don’t forget when he refused to wear a mask at the swab plant, they had to toss out all the swabs made that day.

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Chicago definitly deserves a blue ribbon.  I mean, there are a whole 5 states with more cases than Illinois.  And we (Illinois) barely have 50K more cases than like the countries of Canada and Argentina. 

And there were barely any videos of people having mass get togethers and huge parties as Chicago was peaking.  Yeah, we love science.  

NYC, Newark and Chicago are just huge travel hubs...and Chicago receives a massive amount of traffic from BOTH Asia (including Wuhan) and Europe.

You can make arguments for Detroit, DFW, Minneapolis and Atlanta, but it would be hard to imagine any city with as many East/West connections in the entire country.

 

You would also need to look at % of population with existing co-morbidities, especially Hispanic and African-Americans, to more accurately compare major metropolitan areas in the US.

 

[turnin' two]

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

NYC, Newark and Chicago are just huge travel hubs...and Chicago receives a massive amount of traffic from BOTH Asia (including Wuhan) and Europe.

You can make arguments for Detroit, DFW, Minneapolis and Atlanta, but it would be hard to imagine any city with as many East/West connections in the entire country.

 

You would also need to look at % of population with existing co-morbidities, especially Hispanic and African-Americans, to more accurately compare major metropolitan areas in the US.

 

Yeah, there are factors.  But claiming Lightfoot or Chicago or Illinois did some sort of good job seems silly to me.  But maybe that's just me. 

[turnin' two]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

It’s just you. 

Ok.  So much for following the data though.  Illinois has the 4th highest death total, and there are only 13 countries (not counting the US) that have more deaths than Illinois.  But I guess that is just me.

[caulfield12]

Dr Tom Jefferson, senior associate tutor at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), at Oxford, and visiting professor at Newcastle University, argues that there is growing evidence that the virus was elsewhere before it emerged in Asia.

Last week, Spanish virologists announced they had found traces of the disease in samples of waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the coronavirus disease was seen in China.

Italian scientists have also found evidence of coronavirus in sewage samples in Milan and Turin, in mid-December, many weeks before the first case was detected, while experts have found traces in Brazil in November.

Dr Jefferson believes that many viruses lie dormant throughout the globe and emerge when conditions are favourable. It also means they can vanish as quickly as they arrive.

"Where did Sars 1 go? It’s just disappeared," he said "So we have to think about these things. We need to start researching the ecology of the virus, understanding how it originates and mutates.

"I think the virus was already here, here meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions.”

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-may-not-originated-143843488.html

Didn’t realize they had the world’s largest stamp show last June here in Wuhan...yet another possibility, as well as the World Military Games October 18th - 27th.   We’ll probably never know, definitively, at this point.

[Balta1701]

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Sorry, but this had to be responded to. 
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/the-fix/54-times-trump-downplayed-the-coronavirus/2020/03/05/790f5afb-4dda-48bf-abe1-b7d152d5138c_video.html

That’s without mentioning Trump saying he would like testing to slow down because it reveals more positive results, the White House walking it back by saying “Oh he was just joking” then Trump saying “I don’t joke about things about that.”

Or when he told the WSJ he believed some are wearing masks not as a preventative measure, but as a way to show disproved for his leadership skills? 

Or in May when he went to a Ford plant to tour the facility, and he was the only one not wearing as a mask, his response was “I didn’t want to give the press the pleasure of seeing me in a mask.” Because why would you want to send that message to American’s, that’s it’s a positive to wear a mask?

I mean, should I keep going? Do you need more? Do I need to keep providing info on how the leader of this country, the man who has 40+ million people asking “How High?” when he says jump, has totally and completely sent the wrong and harmful message to the country since this all started?  

IMO, there are even bigger failures by the White House than the messaging failure. While that is important, no failure was more important for this country than the CDC failure in January and February. They refused testing assistance from the WHO, designed and shipped out a faulty and useless test, blocked private labs or institutions from conducting tests, and then created testing standards that made it impossible to test people for community spread. It was the fault of the CDC more than anyone else that the states were flying blind throughout February as the Virus took hold. By the time the first positive test came back in New York City, there were probably 10,000 people who already had it, and they were starting new chains in Boston, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Detroit, and Chicago, and those chains would feed the next set of outbreaks in the US.

Notably, the CDC is part of the executive branch, run under the White House. The CDC director, Chosen and nominated by the President, Redfield, is historically problematic, having pushed a so-called AIDS vaccine without evidence and who has worked with an abstinence-only education group. One senator in 2018 described him as " a sloppy scientist with a long history of scientific misconduct and an extreme religious agenda" which is the kind of thing that at the time might not have seemed like a big deal but then when the CDC became the most important organization in the country for a month...its performance mattered a lot. 

The CDC was key to fighting 2 outbreaks during the Obama administration, Swine Flu and Ebola, and while it is possible to make some mistakes and learn from them every time, it is clear the CDC was completely broken when we needed them and tens of thousands of Americans are dead specifically because of that failure. This should be at the heart of whatever investigation is conducted after this is over.

Also along those lines, the administration allowed the FDA in March to begin approving all sorts of junk tests including specifically junk antibody tests that did not actually have any power to verify anything.

Furthermore, the administration was also sloppy with supplies. Elizabeth Warren had her plan for COVID response out on January 27th, calling for, among other things, increased production of PPE. That did not happen - in part because the White House had spent several years trying to privatize the effort. There needed to be early training of first responders for how to deal with infected patients. Didn't happen. There needed to be surge funding available to be working on these things in February. Didn't happen.

On top of all of that, consistent leadership from the top, supported by scientists, is also key to beating this, and the administration has been missing in action. For one example In South Korea, to reopen things, they developed a nationwide app system where people could log in, to aid in tracing. IF we wanted restaurants open right now, having people log in on an app as they enter the building is a way to make sure that if there is an infected individual recorded there, you can find all the other people who were potentially exposed and get them tested and isolated to break transmission chains. Amarillo Texas is not going to build its own app to do this. If there was a nationwide one? Everyone could use it. Does anyone know what we really need to do to reopen schools safely? NO. Why not? There is zero organization or leadership from the top. Under what circumstances should a state shut down fully a second time, is there any leadership from the top on these standards? No. 

That's all in addition to the messaging failures, telling people it's a hoax and saying why they don't need to take precautions. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Ok.  So much for following the data though.  Illinois has the 4th highest death total, and there are only 13 countries (not counting the US) that have more deaths than Illinois.  But I guess that is just me.

Illinois is the 5th most populated state in the U.S. with a major international airport that I’m sure isn’t helping matters.  Also, in terms of total cases Illinois is actually the 7th highest and only the 12th highest over the last 7th days.  Relative to their population size, the data says Illinois is doing a pretty good job.  And I just spent a week in the Chicago suburbs and it’s night & day how how much more seriously this is being taken than in Nashville and other southern areas I’ve been to recently.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Yeah, there are factors.  But claiming Lightfoot or Chicago or Illinois did some sort of good job seems silly to me.  But maybe that's just me. 

You don't think Pritzker has done a good job? I hated Pritzker - I'm tired of billionaires buying political power, but even I can't deny he has been outstanding with COVID. He got hit earlier than all those places you named and he squashed to the best of his abilities despite being surrounded by 3 idiotic states. I'm not sure why you citing volume stats given the timeline and the population of the state vs other states.

Lightfoot has sucked, I agree there, but Pritzker and Illinois have done a fantastic job slowing and containing the spread.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jack Parkman]

48 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You don't think Pritzker has done a good job? I hated Pritzker - I'm tired of billionaires buying political power, but even I can't deny he has been outstanding with COVID. He got hit earlier than all those places you named and he squashed to the best of his abilities despite being surrounded by 3 idiotic states. I'm not sure why you citing volume stats given the timeline and the population of the state vs other states.

Lightfoot has sucked, I agree there, but Pritzker and Illinois have done a fantastic job slowing and containing the spread.

I disagree, moving to phase 3/4 was too soon and now cases in IL are starting to go up. 

I still don't believe that anyone should be allowed inside any building that isn't their workplace or home.