COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[bmags]

this guy does a good job of collecting the reports

Regarding immunity, we may still get much better at treating it. The antibody treatments are on track to be approved by September, looking at the length of time it took remdesivir to a reasonable level it should be available to some degree in nov/dec

[Dick Allen]

My wife had the TV on this past weekend and I don’t remember if it was fake news CNN or MSDNC, but they interviewed 5 pediatricians from all around the country and asked if they would feel safe sending their child to school this fall. 5 out of 5 said yes. But they all said there had to be social distancing and constant cleaning. Perhaps having gym class outside. One said that child to adult transmission is very rare, so teachers would really have to worry about staying away from other teachers.  Another said HS students would probably have to wear masks but the younger students would not. It really surprised me.  Of course they also all said things could change quickly.

[StrangeSox]

Interesting

 

 

[The Beast]

19 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

I could live with a hybrid approach.   3 and 2 would work for me.  Online only would not.  The kids need to be taught in person and tested.  Tests in a classroom.  My son is a very high level academic kid who is trying to land academic scholarships that will impact his long term future.  Going to a P/F system and allowing everyone to cheat hurts his chances of differentiating his talents from others. This could impact where he goes to school and his career chances down the road. 

Federal and State funds should be provided for both PPE and other material.  This should of been done already. HIPAA and other lovely privacy laws are going to be at odds with reality.  You test positive, sure contact trace and part of that is that you notify the school and that person goes away for 2 weeks.  Now I already know that we will have a mix this fall.  Some parents will keep Junior home when he sneezes, says his tummy feels bad, or just wants to stay home to keep mom company.  Others will push 3 pills down their kids throat and tell them they are not sick and to go to school.  I think at the HS level its simple.  Everyone wears masks.  If your kid doesnt want to wear a mask, great homeschool is for you.  You get sick, you contact trace and everyone involved gets tested.  When people get sick they get processed out until they are cleared.  There is no penalty for staying away with a covid positive hit.  Its part of the price we pay to open up.  Shuttering for the year is a better option then just moving to online only. 

This approach seems reasonable too:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-park/ct-oak-oprf-reopening-plans-tl-0716-20200713-27vu2wmefrawreiuoizq62zwba-story.html

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

So semi serious question - if i wanted to move for a year+ to a country that doesn't have infections, is that largely feasible or no?  Curious - I want my kids getting a good education and want them doing so in a safe environment.  What does it matter where I live, I"ll just rent my house out and rent a place somewhere else and work remote.  

Singapore.  Taiwan.   Australia, or even better, New Zealand.   Germany.   Certain areas of Canada.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

We're facing serious national testing shortages/delays and now PPE shortages again. The Trump admin's federal purchasing for syringes we'll need for a vaccine are going through two small, untested suppliers.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-07-08/trump-coronavirus-vaccine-strategy-syringe-providers

 

That Atlantic reporter has been Top Three on this all along...Amanpour always has the best sources of info.

As for those school districts not requiring masks and distancing, good luck with all the lawsuits from teachers’ unions and parents...if daycares are also shut down, we’re back to almost nobody will be working except essential workers and daycare.  

Edited July 13, 2020 by caulfield12

[turnin' two]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

 

 

ok, greg.

Yeah, don't you know you aren't allowed to change your opinion?  Even when faced with more information.  

[turnin' two]

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

I assume you’re actually being serious, seeing as you were embarrassed by multiple posters here after claiming Illinois did a bad job in their COVID response, even when the facts said otherwise. 

So, thanks, I guess? 

Yeah, I was totally embarrassed by Illinois doing a terrific job and only having 150k cases and barely over 7K deaths.  Outstanding.

 

I didn't see much info to counter that.  And still don't understand how it is anything but poor.  I saw a lot of excuses for why we blew up early.  And saw information that we have done better lately, with which I obviously agreed.  

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by turnin' two

[turnin' two]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Damn solid burn bruh.

 

I'm gonna go be embarrassed because I value your opinion so highly.

Edited July 14, 2020 by turnin' two

[he gone.]

If anybody thinks they would've nailed this job of keeping everybody safe while keeping their constituents gainfully employed then you should come forward and run for president. 

 

It's amazing to me how many people think they have the right answers. 

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

If anybody thinks they would've nailed this job of keeping everybody safe while keeping their constituents gainfully employed then you should come forward and run for president. 

 

It's amazing to me how many people think they have the right answers. 

We may not have all the right answers, but certainly our President has mostly wrong ones...

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

This is what an idiot sounds like:

 

What a dumb fuck. Labels like leftist, the left, liberals and libtards aren’t intelligent, especially when used on cable channels and in headlines. This is how crap is spread and how people believe and spew this garbage.

Edited July 14, 2020 by The Beast

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Yeah, don't you know you aren't allowed to change your opinion?  Even when faced with more information.  

Maybe in naive bayes, but not necessarily with people’s posting histories. It’s amazing how many people are doing about-faces now.

[The Beast]

46 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

If anybody thinks they would've nailed this job of keeping everybody safe while keeping their constituents gainfully employed then you should come forward and run for president. 

 

It's amazing to me how many people think they have the right answers. 

I just can’t understand why Trump didn’t wear a mask and encourage others to do so. His base would have worn a mask. We had some time for this but the reaction just wasn’t there. It’s easy to blame for past mistakes, but the response could have been better.

[caulfield12]

Cost required to safely reopen schools in August/Sept., roughly another $150-200 billion.

Odds of that happening despite seven months to prepare....approximately 1%.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by caulfield12

[turnin' two]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We may not have all the right answers, but certainly our President has mostly wrong ones...

Yeah.  Entirely.  Never said or implied otherwise.  Don't know why anyone would ever take him seriously.

That is part of the reason why we have worse infection and death rates than whipping boy Sweden, but Illinois has some of that responsibility too.

Edited July 14, 2020 by turnin' two

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

If anybody thinks they would've nailed this job of keeping everybody safe while keeping their constituents gainfully employed then you should come forward and run for president. 

 

It's amazing to me how many people think they have the right answers. 

I have zero doubt I would have done a better job - none; Would I have been perfect, no, but better, absolutely.  I will also admit, that I am pretty sure even if Trump did everything right, he would still get blasted by 50% of the people on here (that it still wasn't good enough, etc - and the same would hold true if Trump was a democrat).  

But I don't have to debate whether he did a good job - cause he clearly did an awful awful job.  

[caulfield12]

47 minutes ago, Tony said:

After 3.5 years, the bar for expectations on what Trump will do are SO LOW......and yet he still finds a way to shock us in how poorly he handles what seem like the most obvious situations. We don't have to re-hash it all because it was done just a few pages ago and quite frankly no one is going to change their mind at this point....but all he had to do with was in March say "Hey, throw on a mask. I want everyone in the best country in the world to be safe. It will get us back to our jobs quicker, it's going to ensure this raging economy doesn't miss a beat." Who in his base leaves him and votes for Biden because he said that? Again, this would have been done in March, before he made is a political statement. So who leaves his base? How does that statement cost him votes? I just don't see how it does, and he would have actually been doing his job by keeping American's safe. But silly us having those lofty expectations. 

I think one part of it was also that he was conflicted about making Xi Jinping look bad at the time, and trying to protect his personal relationship with him as well as preserve the trade deal...and then you have this whole "anti-science/anti-vaccine/climate change" is a hoax or conspiracy concocted by the Left, that doing anything to so much as acknowledge it made him look weak.  Not to mention the whole "hiding in his basement with a huge mask" argument against Biden.

From everything we know about Trump, he's absolutely obsessed with germs, having tables/eating utensils wiped clean....having EVERYONE around him tested.  The personal valet coming down with COVID-19 really shook him up, that it could get that close to him.  There was even that week when he claimed to be taking HYDROXY to "prevent" getting sick, and speculation that his doctors were covering up something.

In the end, all they had to do was study SARs and MERs to realize that the WORST thing that could happen with masks would be that they weren't as effective as previously thought.   If you bring an umbrella and it doesn't rain, you're slightly inconvenienced.  But if you're stuck in a downpour without one?    Surely, they cause skin irritation ("maskne") with some due to the cloth, they're uncomfortable when speaking or exercising or in extremely hot/humid weather, but it's simply a matter of being polite and courteous and respectful to OTHER people, not possibly spreading your own germs.

I don't remember people intentionally coughing or sneezing on others before, at least in public....why the mask has become such a symbol is just idiotic/inane.

 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I have zero doubt I would have done a better job - none; Would I have been perfect, no, but better, absolutely.  I will also admit, that I am pretty sure even if Trump did everything right, he would still get blasted by 50% of the people on here (that it still wasn't good enough, etc - and the same would hold true if Trump was a democrat).  

But I don't have to debate whether he did a good job - cause he clearly did an awful awful job.  

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/04/the-two-meetings-that-changed-the-trajectory-of-australias-coronavirus-response

It doesn't take watching HAMILTON to realize the conflict between the Federal government and individual states, as well as individual states between each other (see the Articles of Confederation), but in such a divisive political atmosphere, the MOST logical thing to do would have been to sit down with all the governors for as long as it took to hash out some shared/universal agreed-upon principles for the response that each state could agree with.

Neither too flexible nor too prescriptive, but at least doing 50-65% of what needed to be done (as a whole) instead of 25% in some places, 0 in others, 75-100% in the Northeast/I-95 Corridor.

Australia has a very TRUMP-like PM in Morrison, but even he was politically astute enough to realize that everyone had to come together and push forward with a set of shared, mutual values.

 

 

[bmags]

Was worried these would show up

 

[The Beast]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Was worried these would show up

 

I’ve been getting texts about the US census and a coronavirus response. I haven’t been answering them because I wasn’t sure if it was a scam or not. It’s just odd to get a text on the census and COVID-19.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That Atlantic reporter has been Top Three on this all along...Amanpour always has the best sources of info.

As for those school districts not requiring masks and distancing, good luck with all the lawsuits from teachers’ unions and parents...if daycares are also shut down, we’re back to almost nobody will be working except essential workers and daycare.  

Remember, Mitch McConnell is working hard to provide immunity to schools and businesses so that just because they let someone else infect you it doesn’t mean you can sue.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Yeah, don't you know you aren't allowed to change your opinion?  Even when faced with more information.  

Thank u turnin.

Regarding this issue: I've always pretty much had the same opinion: Obey my authorities here even if I personally wanted to scream in their face at their being bullies. I'm often considered a bad citizen/person on here even though regarding corona I a.) never violated any rules .b.) wore a mask the instant it was demanded of me; and at church when that was the recommendation. c.) wrote 4 letters to my government bullies who never responded to one of them. Nice.

My point? I've always been a law abiding citizen on this. Do I disagree with some things? Of course.

Edited July 14, 2020 by greg775

[Chisoxfn]

California largely went back into shutdown today. Malls, indoor restaurants, bars, etc - all back to being closed.  My guess is the next time things re-open, we won't see them really do much to open any of those places. I think people are going to have to realize indoor places are where you go to get your essentials (get in and get out), but outside of that, they just won't be the norm for a while.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Thank u turnin.

Regarding this issue: I've always pretty much had the same opinion: Obey my authorities here even if I personally wanted to scream in their face at their being bullies. I'm often considered a bad citizen/person on here even though regarding corona I a.) never violated any rules .b.) wore a mask the instant it was demanded of me; and at church when that was the recommendation. c.) wrote 4 letters to my government bullies who never responded to one of them. Nice.

My point? I've always been a law abiding citizen on this. Do I disagree with some things? Of course.

Which "soft" government leaders have been most effective during this crisis?

One would argue that the female governors/mayors and 3 Republican governors (Inslee/Cuomo/Newsom have also done well)...have performed as well as anyone.

Kansas is NOT an easy state to deal with, not unlike Iowa.  Lots of religious communities that are conservative/traditional, and then rural folks and farmers that are usually anti-government in general.   Otoh, you've had idiots like Kris Kobach "valiantly" attempting to investigate mail-in ballot scandals that have unearthed 22 individuals over the past couple of decades.  Westboro Baptist Church.  Endless arguments about teaching creationism vs. evolution/Darwin in the schools. It's almost inconceivable to imagine a "non-bullying" attitude getting anyone's attention....at least outside of Johnson County, where the bullying is more over your social circle and net worth/connections.

I don't get you Greg, why you harbor mostly ill feelings towards women like Hillary Clinton, Gretchen Whitmer in MI, Chelsea Clinton scared you for five years, Stacey Abrams in Georgia, then the shockingly Democratic female governor of one of the more conservative overall states in the USA in KS....why do they scare you so much?  I mean, we've had these arguments for decades about how female politicians exhibiting ambition/aggressiveness, traits valued in men, come across as unlikable in the world of business or Washington, D.C.

Why don't Ivanka and Melania scare you even moreso?    If someone is a model (the two Trumps) or more attractive (we could even extend this to Sarah Palin, Kristi Noem or Tulsi Gabbard) than average, they are rendered harmless?

 

 

During a flurry of activity on his Twitter account, Trump retweeted a message from game show host Chuck Woolery that claimed “everyone is lying” about the coronavirus as part of a plot to sabotage the economy and hurt Trump’s reelection campaign.

“The most outrageous lies are the ones about Covid 19,” wrote Woolery in the message promoted by Trump. “Everyone is lying. The CDC, Media, Democrats, our Doctors, not all but most ,that we are told to trust. I think it’s all about the election and keeping the economy from coming back, which is about the election. I’m sick of it.”

Asked about the retweet at a briefing later Monday, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said that the “notion of the tweet was to point out the fact that when we use science, we have to use it in a way that is not political.” 

In an op-ed published on the CNBC website, Mulvaney wrote: “I know it isn’t popular to talk about in some Republican circles, but we still have a testing problem in this country. My son was tested recently; we had to wait 5 to 7 days for results. My daughter wanted to get tested before visiting her grandparents, but was told she didn’t qualify. That is simply inexcusable at this point in the pandemic.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-identifies-another-hoax-the-coronavirus-152649383.html

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by caulfield12