greg775 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: California largely went back into shutdown today. Malls, indoor restaurants, bars, etc - all back to being closed. My guess is the next time things re-open, we won't see them really do much to open any of those places. I think people are going to have to realize indoor places are where you go to get your essentials (get in and get out), but outside of that, they just won't be the norm for a while. Yes, which doesn't bode well for college basketball. Wonder when all the events are going to get canceled like Maui and Champions Classic and all those other holiday tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkfan Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. I would not want anyone to die or get sick with a disease that we know nothing about and that has no vaccine, no matter how much I disapprove of a President. Just because something doesn't happen to someone, doesn't mean something is fake or a hoax. There is plenty of evidence out there that COVID is very real. It is not just limited to the US. It is all over the globe. I believe in medicine and science. And I would rather overreact than under-react. Other countries have gotten it under control because they acted promptly and didn't politicize simple prevention, like masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/white-house-campaign-urges-jobless-040719927.html White House urges jobless to "find something new" Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. One big global hoax all targeted at Trump, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. Everyone on the "hoax" side of this claimed hundreds of thousands were dying all over the streets and hospital waiting rooms of China. How can it suddenly NOT be real? What changed? How many of those same people are going without masks or social distancing? Yet still asking their kids to work and/or go to school without any PPE in order to earn money for the family? How many of the conspiracy crew are turning down the extra $600/week and volunteering themselves to basically take pretty much any essential services job that likely pays less than it would be to sit on the couch through the end of July and collect unemployment payments? How many are rejecting subsidized health care coverage from the government? How many will not receive a vaccine but want to send their kids to public schools? Will they pay restitution to their classmates and classmates' families if they get them sick? Why don't they all home school them, then? How many believe in FOX News, Breitbart, Alex Jones and OAN over real journalism? How many of these same anti-maskers were fighting to defend President Obama from 2009-2013 when he made every possible effort to reach out to the other side....when the GOP philosophy of Mitch McConnell was OPENLY ADMITTED TO BE for the Congress to make him a one term president and obstruct every single thing he wanted to accomplish no matter how center right it was (ObamaCare was more to the right than Romney's own Massachusetts health care plan)? That cheered on the blocking of Merrick Garland and are still cheering on the filling of hundreds of lifetime judicial appointments in an "election year" when those appointments should have been suspended beginning in January... If these same things were happening under Obama, he would have been impeached about 3 months ago, if not 4. Imagine ServerGate and Benghazi TIMES ten. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 My wife's school district announced their plans last night. Students will be in-person 5 days a week. They will be doing block-scheduled A/B days. So, a student will go to let's say their math, science, and spanish classes for double class periods on Day A, and the other classes on Day B. Other students would be flip-flopped. Oh but the school day is shortened to 830-1230, so it doesn't actually help parents with childcare at all anyway. So ultimately, you still have every student in the building every day, and class sizes of 30+ every period. We have five weeks to decide if she's going to resign over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Florida Governor DeSantis got heckled at a Miami press conference. He stood there looking like the political hack that he is as the heckler told him he had no plan or idea of how to deal with this situation, and he had no answer. The denial goes on and on while the virus spreads out of control. The heckler was dragged out of the press conference when DeSantis should have been dragged out. Give the heckler the microphone; he might have come up with something. I think that is a given since DeSantis and the other GOP governors have shown they have no clue as they run and hide from Trump. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. Yea man I was thrilled when my dads best friend died in April. Fist pumping as he drowned in his own excessive fluids filling his lungs. It was fucking awesome man, fuck trump this was a master move to die like that to own the GOP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 These people are 3rd graders. And to think they feel justified because, "I'm not doing it behind your back". Has the country devolved this much? White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Communications and Director of Social Media posts cartoon and message on FB attacking the nation’s leading infectious disease expert for telling the truth about this deadly pandemic. https://facebook.com/1440616002820798/posts/2641476589401394/?d=n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. No. In fact, I can't imagine being able to believe that someone has the power to get the entire world to shutdown for a hoax, including getting our enemies who support Trump's re-election to play along, yet they can't nominate someone better than Biden, nor can they do something much simpler to get rid of Trump instead of shutting down the world economy. Then again, Occum and I are soul mates so that might be it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: I have zero doubt I would have done a better job - none; Would I have been perfect, no, but better, absolutely. I will also admit, that I am pretty sure even if Trump did everything right, he would still get blasted by 50% of the people on here (that it still wasn't good enough, etc - and the same would hold true if Trump was a democrat). But I don't have to debate whether he did a good job - cause he clearly did an awful awful job. The thing is i wasn't even talking about trump. this falls into everybody's lap across every state. trump is a lost cause. he's proven himself over decades - it's not like i expected any different. The thing I think people don't understand about trump enough is that he doesn't care about anybody about himself. I don't think he cares one bit if masks work, don't work, etc. I think he is a marketer and con(fidence) man. He picks the road where it will benefit him most for re-election. In this case he thought he could rile up and divide the base again to win via this route. I think it has obviously blew up in his face entirely for which i'm glad. He's too ignorant and proud to change his stance and admit he is wrong because he's a child. But I think if he thought masks would win him an election he'd be stamping MAGA all across masks and selling them. The thing is he only really cares about a few things ... winning, power, and hearing his name on the television. The american public is so far down on that list. What i think he did right though in my opinion is give the power to the states to choose their routes. I don't support his divisive nature & think it goes too far in preventing any true cooperation because of undermining the situation. However all states were given the power to choose their own path and very few have done a good job. Thank goodness IL is one of those. I'm not a big JB guy - but he's handled this pretty well. B, maybe even B+ territory. The problem is when you're in power you're in charge of people and all that comes with that. This world is full of a bunch of immature, uneducated, stubborn, naive, self-loving, ignorant, assholes. And unfortunately when dealing with an infectious disease theres not a whole lot of room for those type of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. So you think the entire world is doing everything to get rid of Trump? I could largley buy that if the US was doing the same things as other countries and largely trending the same way. But the US is doing very little of what other countries have done and has also seen none of the success most developed nations have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 24 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: My wife's school district announced their plans last night. Students will be in-person 5 days a week. They will be doing block-scheduled A/B days. So, a student will go to let's say their math, science, and spanish classes for double class periods on Day A, and the other classes on Day B. Other students would be flip-flopped. Oh but the school day is shortened to 830-1230, so it doesn't actually help parents with childcare at all anyway. So ultimately, you still have every student in the building every day, and class sizes of 30+ every period. We have five weeks to decide if she's going to resign over this. Our district came out with more color. Mon - Tues (kids that opt to are in class (morning shift and afternoon shift); wednesday is virtual (+ school cleaned); Thurs & Friday same as Monday / Tuesday. If you don't do the morning or afternoon shift and need childcare, you need to look into CDC centers at the school and/or Boys and Girls Clubs, etc. It will be interesting to see what % opts for hybrid vs. online only (as all parents can either select the hybrid model I outlined above or a fully virtual model). Lets say 30% of the parents select virtual, that means you basically have 70% of your previous class sizes than getting split in half. Masks will be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: The thing is i wasn't even talking about trump. this falls into everybody's lap across every state. trump is a lost cause. he's proven himself over decades - it's not like i expected any different. The thing I think people don't understand about trump enough is that he doesn't care about anybody about himself. I don't think he cares one bit if masks work, don't work, etc. I think he is a marketer and con(fidence) man. He picks the road where it will benefit him most for re-election. In this case he thought he could rile up and divide the base again to win via this route. I think it has obviously blew up in his face entirely for which i'm glad. He's too ignorant and proud to change his stance and admit he is wrong because he's a child. But I think if he thought masks would win him an election he'd be stamping MAGA all across masks and selling them. The thing is he only really cares about a few things ... winning, power, and hearing his name on the television. The american public is so far down on that list. What i think he did right though in my opinion is give the power to the states to choose their routes. I don't support his divisive nature & think it goes too far in preventing any true cooperation because of undermining the situation. However all states were given the power to choose their own path and very few have done a good job. Thank goodness IL is one of those. I'm not a big JB guy - but he's handled this pretty well. B, maybe even B+ territory. The problem is when you're in power you're in charge of people and all that comes with that. This world is full of a bunch of immature, uneducated, stubborn, naive, self-loving, ignorant, assholes. And unfortunately when dealing with an infectious disease theres not a whole lot of room for those type of people. Some thoughts on the failures of both the federal and state govenrments. I'd disagree with the statement that "the world" is filled with the sorts of people you described, though. The US is one of a handful of nations that have handled this so poorly. Most other countries have done much better and actually come together collectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 34 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: The thing is i wasn't even talking about trump. this falls into everybody's lap across every state. trump is a lost cause. he's proven himself over decades - it's not like i expected any different. The thing I think people don't understand about trump enough is that he doesn't care about anybody about himself. I don't think he cares one bit if masks work, don't work, etc. I think he is a marketer and con(fidence) man. He picks the road where it will benefit him most for re-election. In this case he thought he could rile up and divide the base again to win via this route. I think it has obviously blew up in his face entirely for which i'm glad. He's too ignorant and proud to change his stance and admit he is wrong because he's a child. But I think if he thought masks would win him an election he'd be stamping MAGA all across masks and selling them. The thing is he only really cares about a few things ... winning, power, and hearing his name on the television. The american public is so far down on that list. What i think he did right though in my opinion is give the power to the states to choose their routes. I don't support his divisive nature & think it goes too far in preventing any true cooperation because of undermining the situation. However all states were given the power to choose their own path and very few have done a good job. Thank goodness IL is one of those. I'm not a big JB guy - but he's handled this pretty well. B, maybe even B+ territory. The problem is when you're in power you're in charge of people and all that comes with that. This world is full of a bunch of immature, uneducated, stubborn, naive, self-loving, ignorant, assholes. And unfortunately when dealing with an infectious disease theres not a whole lot of room for those type of people. Even if he once again challenged the emoluments clause by hawking MAGA masks back in February/March to his own followers for $19.95 and they were made in China instead of 3M...AND the rest of the country was required to wear real masks of their choice from the beginning of the 1st shutdown through the first or second week of June upon entering any public facility, he would still be looking at better than 50/50 odds of being re-elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. Thanks Chuck I will take Bad Ideas for $100 along with Door #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 It would have been fairly simple to follow the guidelines and reduce casualty loss. Instead I have read that the 10th Amendment constrains our leader. I don't know how to reconcile our different perceptions. We seem to have sold out science for preferred political narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 13 hours ago, greg775 said: Obey my authorities here even if I personally wanted to scream in their face at their being bullies. Do you scream at them because they make you wear a seat belt or else you will be ticketed? How about the fact that they make you wear a shirt and shoes into a store or else you can't shop there? Are they being bullies then? Are you upset that they bullied people that smoke to smoke outdoors only? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Hawkfan said: Is anyone beginning to think the entire reaction to the wuhan flu is a big hoax? I don't get out much, as I work from home, but it seems like a lot of the reaction is just a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, and maybe the supporters of quarantining are just happy that something bad has happened during the best presidency in the history of country. First of all, it's not Wuhan Flu, it's COVID-19. Secondly, 130,000+ people did not die from a hoax. This virus is very real, and it can be very dangerous to some folks. The worst thing about the virus is that it is a novel coronavirus, which means we don't know much about it. We're learning every day about it, and the actual experts (CDC, Dr. Fauci, countless doctors and scientists) are doing their best to pass on their learnings to the public. It just sucks that we have people in charge who refuse to believe and will go so far as to muzzle the experts. I personally know several people who have had COVID, and most experienced mild symptoms (like a bad flu). One guy, though, was hospitalized and was out of work for a month. He was healthy and didn't have any underlying conditions. Not a hoax. It's real, and it's getting worse because people aren't taking it seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Iwritecode said: Do you scream at them because they make you wear a seat belt or else you will be ticketed? How about the fact that they make you wear a shirt and shoes into a store or else you can't shop there? Are they being bullies then? Are you upset that they bullied people that smoke to smoke outdoors only? I wonder how many of the same people who don't want to hear about wearing a mask are the same people willing to smash a car window to save a dog? When did we become so anti-human in this country? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I just read this on FB. What I read was longer but this is the start of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Here's the whole thing. https://www.facebook.com/LadyXandraWrites/photos/pcb.2753285704904017/2753285324904055/?type=3&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 22 hours ago, Dick Allen said: My wife had the TV on this past weekend and I don’t remember if it was fake news CNN or MSDNC, but they interviewed 5 pediatricians from all around the country and asked if they would feel safe sending their child to school this fall. 5 out of 5 said yes. But they all said there had to be social distancing and constant cleaning. Perhaps having gym class outside. One said that child to adult transmission is very rare, so teachers would really have to worry about staying away from other teachers. Another said HS students would probably have to wear masks but the younger students would not. It really surprised me. Of course they also all said things could change quickly. So I wanted to give a reply to this yesterday but didn't have time. 1. There are a number of good quality papers out there saying that young people are much less likely to transmit this virus than adults/people in their late teens and early 20s. This is now well established and you can read it if you want. https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2020/07/08/peds.2020-004879. This is unusual for viruses - influenza and the common cold transmit just fine amongst kids. 2. If it wasn't for point #1, schools would seem like the absolute worst possible place to be. Lots of talking, crowded rooms, limited ventilation, 8+ hours a day, it'd be like a restaurant for 8 hours. You'd otherwise flag that as the absolute highest risk place you can imagine. 3. There are some reasons to be skeptical about how far #1 really goes. a.) There are now multiple cases of transmission involving kids, maybe not driven by them but definitely involving them. A summer camp in Missouri had 82 kids infected. Texas has an outbreak in day care centers with 1300 cases recognized, 444 of which are children. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/10/889718877/at-least-82-coronavirus-cases-linked-to-missouri-sleepaway-camp https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/texas-coronavirus-cases-child-care-facilities/index.html b.) Children seemingly don't manifest the same symptoms as adults. Children often seem to report migranes and some other problems rather than the breathing issues we see in adults. As a consequence, it is likely that there is more spreading among children and between children than has been recognized previously. IF you have 2 sick people, one kid complaining about headaches and an adult complaining of respiratory distress, and testing is limited in your country, you are going to test the adult and not the child. Between fewer symptoms and changed symptoms, it is likely that we are under-testing and under-recognizing the disease amongst children specifically. c.) In New York, it was recognized that a number of children get the virus, show weak to no symptoms, and then some percentage experience unexplained severe illnesses 1-3 months later (possibly more, we've only been dealing with this for 1-3 months). So while the virus may show limited symptoms at first, it may do damage or lay dormant in unexpected ways. 4. Given all that information, if you have spread in your area and you open schools you are almost certain to get some spread in schools. It may be focused among the teachers, but the teachers may be the ones who get it and infect significant numbers of young people. If you had to choose keeping schools closed or restaurants closed, you would clearly choose restaurants, bars, gyms, etc., as they are more likely to represent large spreading events. If you have limited spread in an area, ample testing, and available PPE, you could probably open schools with relative safety if you have developed appropriate plans to protect the teachers and students over time. However, literally no where in this country has all of those things, because the hot spots are so huge and the demand for PPE and testing in the hot spots is so high. 5. Because we cannot keep the outside area safe, it is very difficult to expect that if you open a school it won't come in, and if it comes in you will have probably 10 days before you realize there's a problem even if there is a problem. Testing is too restricted, most of the spreading is done by people before symptoms develop, and any kids who do spread it have a good chance of failing to be recognized. 6. Furthermore, opening schools creates another problem. While COVID-19 may not spread easily among youth, influenza does, and if schools are open it will mean flu season is coming. Right now, much of the nation has no spare capacity left in hospitals for flu patients. Adding transmission of an additional virus would be particularly hazardous right now. 7. We could quibble on the numbers and the procedures, 5% positive tests or 3% or whatever, but opening grade schools would be possible if we had taken care of everything outside of schools, but opening schools depends on meeting standards we have failed to meet as a nation. Outside of a handful of communities and possibly New York state, right now most of the country is in no shape to do this. We chose to have bars and restaurants open for 1.5 months over having schools open in the fall. 8. While the risks may be lower because of something about this virus, there are offsetting factors that are unknown, and one final point - even if most do not get this as bad as adults, some kids still get very sick, some kids would have long-lasting complications, and some kids would die. Generally speaking, that's not a good thing to ask of most families. 9. Any University that thinks they can open their doors is asking for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 This is the sound of me sighing just a little bit of relief. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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