Balta1701 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Texsox said: You really have a low opinion of America. So where would you rather be living? An America where an attorney general can’t duck insider trading charges for 4 years by blocking the ability of the government to pay the lawyers who would otherwise try the case, and then have all his staff resign in protest of a totally separate bribery case, and then have people still say “this is impressively honest and if you don’t agree you should leave” as a deflection. (For those outside Texas, that’s all true about their Attorney General. But he strongly opposes Pennsylvania’s electors!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: An America where an attorney general can’t duck insider trading charges for 4 years by blocking the ability of the government to pay the lawyers who would otherwise try the case, and then have all his staff resign in protest of a totally separate bribery case, and then have people still say “this is impressively honest and if you don’t agree you should leave” as a deflection. (For those outside Texas, that’s all true about their Attorney General. But he strongly opposes Pennsylvania’s electors!) No wonder EVERYONE'S moving to Austin, haha. I would almost say there's starting to becoming a backlash, to the point where people who move there are feeling disappointed...it's like some are magically expecting to be transformed just by relocating there. Fwiw, I was always impressed with Will Hurd holding that Hispanic majority seat that's one of the largest in the country by mileage/territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 10 hours ago, Balta1701 said: An America where an attorney general can’t duck insider trading charges for 4 years by blocking the ability of the government to pay the lawyers who would otherwise try the case, and then have all his staff resign in protest of a totally separate bribery case, and then have people still say “this is impressively honest and if you don’t agree you should leave” as a deflection. (For those outside Texas, that’s all true about their Attorney General. But he strongly opposes Pennsylvania’s electors!) So what country would you rather be living in? Whose government is better? If you're looking for a perfect world welll then lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I think everyone reading this is having the same reaction, some version of "this is totally unsurprising and still, d*mn." https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/biden-covid-vaccination-trump/index.html Quote Newly sworn in President Joe Biden and his advisers are inheriting no coronavirus vaccine distribution plan to speak of from the Trump administration, sources tell CNN, posing a significant challenge for the new White House. The Biden administration has promised to try to turn the Covid-19 pandemic around and drastically speed up the pace of vaccinating Americans against the virus. But in the immediate hours following Biden being sworn into office on Wednesday, sources with direct knowledge of the new administration's Covid-related work told CNN one of the biggest shocks that the Biden team had to digest during the transition period was what they saw as a complete lack of a vaccine distribution strategy under former President Donald Trump, even weeks after multiple vaccines were approved for use in the United States. "There is nothing for us to rework. We are going to have to build everything from scratch," one source said. Another source described the moment that it became clear the Biden administration would have to essentially start from "square one" because there simply was no plan as: "Wow, just further affirmation of complete incompetence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I think everyone reading this is having the same reaction, some version of "this is totally unsurprising and still, d*mn." https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/biden-covid-vaccination-trump/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 3:47 PM, bmags said: what's the hospitalization rate of those infected after one dose? What's the breakdown of how soon after vaccine administered that they were infected? There's more than one consideration here. I feel like I'm trying to interpret a debate between members of the Israeli government and with two different British press organizations on top of it. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55734257 Quote Addressing Prof Nachman Ash's quotes, the Israeli Ministry of Health said: "The comments of the Israeli Covid-19 commissioner regarding the effect of the first dose of the vaccine were out of context and, therefore, inaccurate. "The commissioner said we have yet to see a decrease in the number of severely ill patients." The "full protective impact of the vaccine" was expected to be seen soon, a spokesperson added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I feel like I'm trying to interpret a debate between members of the Israeli government and with two different British press organizations on top of it. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55734257 It's good that cases are coming down for now, but if it starts raging with the new variant while our biggest group gets vaccinated we are going to see a bunch of people get sick within that 1-2 weeks of their first shot. It would be awful if it wasn't even mitigating the most severe symptoms by then. Certainly feels like we just need to get lucky that this new variant doesn't spread out of control I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) On 1/20/2021 at 6:00 AM, Texsox said: So what country would you rather be living in? Whose government is better? If you're looking for a perfect world welll then lmao. I'm wondering the same. @Balta1701 ? Edited January 21, 2021 by ron883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 7:25 AM, Texsox said: This public health stuff is difficult. We have a mostly honest government, imagine third world countries where corruption is the norm. Tex, come on. The Trump administration had no plan for a vaccine rollout period - and the Biden administration has to start from scratch (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution; https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/health/trump-biden-covid-19-vaccine-numbers-bn/index.html) In the final days of the Trump presidency, the HHS Secretary announced the government would begin releasing vaccines which had been held in reserve for second shots... when that reserve simply didn't exist. The federal government straight up lied to the states. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/15/trump-vaccine-reserve-used-up/ https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/01/15/jared-polis-federal-government-covid-vaccines-lied-to/ Excusing this stuff because some countries have worse, more corrupt, governments is absurd. We're over 400,000 lives lost. Not screwing up the vaccine rollout would have saved lives. How can you hand wave this away by saying "public health stuff is difficult?" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, ron883 said: I'm wondering the same. @Balta1701 ? It's such a sad deflection that it isn't worth responding to. "You should move somewhere else that you'd like better" is not an excuse for corruption or racism or whatever else here to be acceptable and not a big deal. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said: Tex, come on. The Trump administration had no plan for a vaccine rollout period - and the Biden administration has to start from scratch (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution; https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/health/trump-biden-covid-19-vaccine-numbers-bn/index.html) In the final days of the Trump presidency, the HHS Secretary announced the government would begin releasing vaccines which had been held in reserve for second shots... when that reserve simply didn't exist. The federal government straight up lied to the states. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/15/trump-vaccine-reserve-used-up/ https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/01/15/jared-polis-federal-government-covid-vaccines-lied-to/ Excusing this stuff because some countries have worse, more corrupt, governments is absurd. We're over 400,000 lives lost. Not screwing up the vaccine rollout would have saved lives. How can you hand wave this away by saying "public health stuff is difficult?" Don't forget when the states were having to run diversion missions and source their own PPE clandestinely because the feds kept seizing their shipments and then doing who the hell knows what with it. Countries with far fewer resources have done much better than the US. The US has been one of the worst responses to this anywhere on the planet, doubly so when you consider it's also the richest country to have ever existed. Edited January 21, 2021 by StrangeSox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I'm setting a personal goal that Illinois maintain a 30k vaccine per day pace through phase 1b, which would move through that 3.2 million by mid-may. This will require either getting substantially more out of weekdays (38k today) or not taking off weekends for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Minor anecdotal, but the CVS near me had about a dozen cargo containers in the parking lot that weren't there last week. Seems to be some sort of prep for wider distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I believe we have one of the greatest countries on the planet. But I'm willing to listen. Where would you rather live? We are doing horribly in our response. It should have been much better on the government side. But I don't think Nigeria or Nicaragua are doing better. We're not a perfect union. Some want to see the very worse in America and believe that is who we really are. I see the good and bad and believe we're greater than just about anyone. Even with our bad points. Sorry if that doesn't fit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, illinilaw08 said: Tex, come on. The Trump administration had no plan for a vaccine rollout period - and the Biden administration has to start from scratch (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution; https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/health/trump-biden-covid-19-vaccine-numbers-bn/index.html) In the final days of the Trump presidency, the HHS Secretary announced the government would begin releasing vaccines which had been held in reserve for second shots... when that reserve simply didn't exist. The federal government straight up lied to the states. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/15/trump-vaccine-reserve-used-up/ https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/01/15/jared-polis-federal-government-covid-vaccines-lied-to/ Excusing this stuff because some countries have worse, more corrupt, governments is absurd. We're over 400,000 lives lost. Not screwing up the vaccine rollout would have saved lives. How can you hand wave this away by saying "public health stuff is difficult?" So which third world country where corruption is the norm has handled this better? That's specifically what I referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, Texsox said: I believe we have one of the greatest countries on the planet. But I'm willing to listen. Where would you rather live? We are doing horribly in our response. It should have been much better on the government side. But I don't think Nigeria or Nicaragua are doing better. We're not a perfect union. Some want to see the very worse in America and believe that is who we really are. I see the good and bad and believe we're greater than just about anyone. Even with our bad points. Sorry if that doesn't fit here. “Go live somewhere else how dare you point out corruption” is not seeing the bad. It is excusing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I want to live in a country where scientists don’t have to say this because they are never put in the situation where they have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: “Go live somewhere else how dare you point out corruption” is not seeing the bad. It is excusing it. Really? So if I think we're a great country I'm excusing corruption? Look around the planet. Columbia, Ghana, Somalia. I can't imagine how bad their response must be. So if I believe that I'm excusing our response? No. I'm pointing out that people who live in third world shit holes are really fucked in this. But feel free to disagree, you always do. Again, what country is a better place to live? I'm not telling you to move there, I want to know what country you believe is better than the US to live? If you're going to argue my point when I say we're a damn great country give a straight answer. I'll probably agree with about four or five, but not many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, Texsox said: So which third world country where corruption is the norm has handled this better? That's specifically what I referenced. You started the comment by saying "This public health stuff is difficult" which sure seems to be excusing the objectively terrible response to the vaccine rollout in the US. This stuff is tough guys! Mistakes are going to happen! You then set the standard for a response as "third world countries." So long as the US is outpacing countries with significantly less wealth and resources, we're doing A-OK! Finally, the response to criticism of how the US is handling things is "where would you rather be living?" The implication here is, and continues to be, that if you criticize the US COVID response, maybe you should leave. And if your point here is to just say, "guys, I think the US is great notwithstanding its flaws!" it really isn't particularly on point for a thread specifically about COVID... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just now, illinilaw08 said: You started the comment by saying "This public health stuff is difficult" which sure seems to be excusing the objectively terrible response to the vaccine rollout in the US. This stuff is tough guys! Mistakes are going to happen! You then set the standard for a response as "third world countries." So long as the US is outpacing countries with significantly less wealth and resources, we're doing A-OK! Finally, the response to criticism of how the US is handling things is "where would you rather be living?" The implication here is, and continues to be, that if you criticize the US COVID response, maybe you should leave. And if your point here is to just say, "guys, I think the US is great notwithstanding its flaws!" it really isn't particularly on point for a thread specifically about COVID... Countries like Vietnam with significantly less wealth and resources are far outpacing the US, in fact! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, Texsox said: Really? So if I think we're a great country I'm excusing corruption? Look around the planet. Columbia, Ghana, Somalia. I can't imagine how bad their response must be. So if I believe that I'm excusing our response? No. I'm pointing out that people who live in third world shit holes are really fucked in this. But feel free to disagree, you always do. Again, what country is a better place to live? I'm not telling you to move there, I want to know what country you believe is better than the US to live? If you're going to argue my point when I say we're a damn great country give a straight answer. I'll probably agree with about four or five, but not many more. congratulations on taking over greg's role, we really needed that being replaced. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Man J&J is getting pre-hyped, and I worry that something in the 70% range will get higher scrutiny a la astrozaneca. Next week is going to be so huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Texsox said: Really? So if I think we're a great country I'm excusing corruption? Look around the planet. Columbia, Ghana, Somalia. I can't imagine how bad their response must be. So if I believe that I'm excusing our response? No. I'm pointing out that people who live in third world shit holes are really fucked in this. But feel free to disagree, you always do. Again, what country is a better place to live? I'm not telling you to move there, I want to know what country you believe is better than the US to live? If you're going to argue my point when I say we're a damn great country give a straight answer. I'll probably agree with about four or five, but not many more. Colombia is a beautiful country with great, welcoming people, and I feel much safer there than in certain areas of Chicago. I certainly feel the very worst that will happen to a tourist these days is robbery or kidnapping, because there’s so much more focus on what happens to tourists there than, say, Thailand, which has one of the higher tourist homicide rates as well as road death rates. Colombia is safer than Costa Rica and even Panama, two of the more trendy retirement destinations the last 20 years or so. Putting it in comparison to Somalia doesn’t make sense. Pretty much all of the Asian 2nd/3rd world countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia have done a much better job with Covid-19...or Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar, because they all treat masking much more seriously after SARS. Otoh, Brazil, India and Mexico haven’t fared very well at all... Edited January 21, 2021 by caulfield12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, bmags said: Man J&J is getting pre-hyped, and I worry that something in the 70% range will get higher scrutiny a la astrozaneca. Next week is going to be so huge. I keep saying J&J is the one that can be the game changer. Was really bummed to see their manufacturing efforts were quite behind. If we get good news from them - not only is it another shot out there, ramping up distribution - but the one and done is a huge deal. Can get double the coverage with the same # of shots...and immunity a few weeks faster. Like - literally - it could cut the window to get everyone who wants to be vaccinated down by month(s). My fingers are crossed for good news - I still have my own personal goal - I want to have gotten at least an initial dose of the vaccine by March...which would mean my own personal objective of immunity by end of April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Really? So if I think we're a great country I'm excusing corruption? Look around the planet. Columbia, Ghana, Somalia. I can't imagine how bad their response must be. So if I believe that I'm excusing our response? No. I'm pointing out that people who live in third world shit holes are really fucked in this. But feel free to disagree, you always do. Again, what country is a better place to live? I'm not telling you to move there, I want to know what country you believe is better than the US to live? If you're going to argue my point when I say we're a damn great country give a straight answer. I'll probably agree with about four or five, but not many more. EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY YOU LISTED AS SUPPOSED S***HOLE COUNTRIES HAS FEWER COVID DEATHS PER CAPITA THAN THE US AND IT ISNT PARTICULARLY CLOSE. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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